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..the most "anti union" union in LE (LAPPL)

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  • ..the most "anti union" union in LE (LAPPL)

    In a current era of financial struggle, where civil servants are being looked upon as "free loaders", and local gov'ts are facing serious crunches, you'd think that the few unions left( mainly those of gov't employees) would STICK together and lok out for each other, if for only the idea of mutal empathy and support.

    I used to to think that way UNTIL I realized that my departments larger "sister agency" (LAPD) apparently sees the world as "LAPD only, all others don't exist". Now I can understand the mindset by management- how often have we here on O.Com questioned the almost backward views on policing that LAPD management hold so dear to their hearts, along with their faded Jack Webb memorabilia, but what disheartens me is that the rank and file association- The Los Angeles Police "Protective" League, thinks that being lock step with management will somehow make their plight better as well.

    What I'm referring to is a recent letter,sent to the California State Assembly on March 10th,2011, by the LAPPL that takes a stand on opposing assembly bill AB 1377. AB1377 is a designed to close a gaff in the current status of the L.A. Airport PD. Airport PD officers perform their duties pursuant to penal code section 830.33(d). At one point in time, the subsections of penal code section 830 delineated the specific duties of municipal/county/state/ and district policing agencies. Many agencies still adhere to the tenets of their specific section, particularly the "District" police agencies, and for the most part, there is little issue behind it.

    The problem ,though, is when the specific CURRENTduties,and requirements of a particular agency, supercede, what their original authority was. Unfortunately, that issue presently faces the L.A. Airport PD. This is not the first time, legislators, state, federal and even within the City of L.A. have asked for penal code changes to reflect what they require from the L.A. Airport PD.

    The issue has come up at least 3 times before in the last 12 yrs ( AB 2513 in 2000, and AB 1881 in 2004, as examples) only to see LAPPL join with LAPD management, and rally,even BULLY local legislators, some as far from L.A. as Riverside, San Diego, and Kern counties, to wade in and stop the penal status change). Adding insult to injury, the LAPPL would rather use their members hard earned dues money to go on political "crusades" instead of using the monies to BETTER the lives and futures of their own people.

    The LAPPL's letter even conveniently OVERLOOKS the penal code section of even 830.33 to state that Airport PD officers powers are limited to "ONLY the properties owned by the airport"( guess the part that already states "whose authority extends throughout the state" wasn't clearly visible to LAPPL Pres. Paul Webber- but then again, from meeting BOTH LAPD and Airport Police officers trained at the "new and improved" , but LAME and wimpy LAPD academy, actually READING and knowing the Penal code of California is not high on the list of priorities for their training)

    the list of FLAWED assumptions follows:

    1) Airport PD officers are asking for more authority than they need (False- airport Police officers carry out a variety of duties that are covered by their current penal code, and the section change only reflects what they are required to do that ISN'T covered by their current section)

    2) airport Police officers are trying to circumvent the "meet and confer" process for better benefits( False- Still have to meet with city management- and since there has been a long standing, but unofficial "me too" clause, Airport PD doesn't receive more than any other union, including LAPPL, during negotiations)

    3)Airport Police would leave the airport UNPROTECTED and would fail to meet its 5 minute required response by the TSA and FAA. ( FALSE- hasn't happened in the 24 yrs I've been here, and wouldn't. The airport PDs primary patrol area is 10.5 max sq.miles around LAX,whether they become 830.1 or stay at 830.33 PC. The MAIN reason why LAPD hasn't absorbed Airport PD is because LAPD - a much larger force, REFUSES to commit to a 5 minute response- heck they don't respond anywhere in the city in 5 minutes,much to the chagrin of the citizens)

    4) An airport PD with municipal penal code status would prevent LAPD from responding to emergencies at LAX ( FALSE- The city council has a standing MOA with the "primary dept"-LAPD, and the district, or sub depts already giving LAPD the "lead" on all emergencies, as well as outlining the requirements for mutual support. This feeble argument by the LAPPL denies the fact that they already respond ,as well as work with the 830.1 PC L.A. Port Police- another city owned just 11 miles south of LAX in San Pedro,CA. LAPD- Harbor division covers the port, and still responds to calls on the Port ,whether with Port PD, or alone)

    A merger attempt has taken place almost every (4) yrs since i've been employed ,and has been turned down promptly- many times it has been because of negative publicity incurred by LAPD( Devin Brown shooting incident, the rodney King riots,Rampart Scandal, even the hollywood burglars in the past),as well as city councils concern that the increased presence of LAPD would incur higher liability to the city and its proprietary agency- the Airport. In 2005 ,city residents voted a STRONG "NO" by 2/3s majority of an Airport PD-LAPD merger( Ballot Measure "A"), which would have also cleared the way for an LAPD take over of the Ports PD, the Gen.Services PD,Park Rangers, and the LAUSD PD.

    This has never been about combining all services and monies together under the LAPD umbrella to provide BETTER services to the citizens; under the current budget crunch the city of L.A. has, that would actually make sense. it has been about EGO- LAPD mgm't and the LAPPL want to continue the Adam 12 image of being the foremost police agency in the state, as well as the nation, despite serious cut backs, and outright failures in providing service to the citizens of L.A. couple that with lingering animousity by some LAPD officers over the cutback of "sit and people watch " overtime that some LAPPL members were making at LAX( with the avg officer making $2,400/mo added to their max $7,400/mo salaries-airport cops are required to do the same detail on regular pay only) and you see the real reason, the Paul Webbers of the LAPPL come out against another union .

    Makes you wonder- I wouldn't doubt for a minute if the LAPPL hasn't sent flowers to the Wisconsin GOP legislators who just stripped that states union laborers of collective bargaining rights........
    Last edited by DOAcop38; 03-12-2011, 05:38 PM.
    "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

  • #2
    I've felt for years that Airport PD's should just fall under 830.1.

    Who cares? I understand the motivation of the Airport guys to want to fall under the same PC as everyone else, so what's LAPD's beef? Wa wa wa they just want to be like us?
    Other officer: Oh that's right, I forgot, you're God's gift to police work.
    Me: At least someone recognizes it.

    Turns out basic police work isn't so hard, you just have to leave the station.

    Comment


    • #3
      LAPD officers want to feel superior to everyone else. This is a common phenomenon among large agencies. They also may think a change in status could lead to more competition for off-duty jobs.

      Also, at one time the airport police did have lower standards for hiring and much lower standards for training. Some of those guys from the security-guard days probably are still around. Nonetheless, I think all the complex distinctions among Peace Officers in the Penal Code are needlessly complex and confusing.
      Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
      Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • #4
        It's about the money, LAPD would like to absorb LAXPD. It would benefit our union monitarily too. I think that the PC change is seen as something that would make it harder for us to absorb LAXPD.

        It's all stupid because it should be about what the airport wants.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by DAL View Post
          LAPD officers want to feel superior to everyone else. This is a common phenomenon among large agencies. They also may think a change in status could lead to more competition for off-duty jobs.
          Really??? I was unaware of my need to feel so superior. That's a pretty blanket statement to put on 9000 + Officers.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by CAHokie View Post
            Really??? I was unaware of my need to feel so superior. That's a pretty blanket statement to put on 9000 + Officers.
            While I don't agree that every individual Officer at LAPD has the attitude DAL made reference to, LAPD as a whole most definitely does. It may be less now than 15 years ago, but it is still there.

            On a side note, I told a story a while back about an LAPD motor Officer who stopped me on my Harley and made an @ss of himself by treating me like an outlaw biker. I don't mean to resurface the story but I was surprised to see the same motor Officer on the news a while back. Even though it has been years since the incident occurred, he still looks like he is 17 years old! He must never age. I wonder if he ever grew up...
            "I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." Winston Churchill

            Liberals are very broadminded: they are always willing to give careful consideration to both sides of the same side.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by CAHokie View Post
              Really??? I was unaware of my need to feel so superior. That's a pretty blanket statement to put on 9000 + Officers.
              In ordinary English usage, the lack of a quantifier (such as all or every) usually means that the statement applies to many members of the group but not all.

              For example, if I were to say that Mexicans are impoverished, that would not mean that people such as Carlos Slim, the world's wealthiest man, did not exist.

              Hence no assertion was made about all 9000 LAPD officers. As IE Copper said, the attitude was more prevalent many years ago. I was told that it was an attitude fostered in the academy.
              Last edited by DAL; 03-16-2011, 02:42 PM.
              Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
              Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #8
                the rank and file LAPD personnel could actually care less, and relations are pretty good between both depts, officer to officer wise. The "problem" is the LAPPL leadership. Many seem more concerned with protecting their political clout( as League leadership) than dealing with the concerns of their members.

                FWIW, all the stuff LAPPL claims we "can't" or "don't" do, we are already doing! it doesn't make sense to try and neuter LAXPD ,just to make MORE work( and no extra $$$) for LAPD personnel that are already pushed...
                Last edited by DOAcop38; 03-16-2011, 09:43 PM.
                "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

                Comment


                • #9
                  As far as I'm concerned, all PD's should be 830.1. A cop's a cop no matter what the politicians wanna say. We had that same issue with the LASPD, except our chief at the time was against it too. It was gonna pass until the union president failed to show up for a meeting in Sacramento. They're still 830.32.
                  God made perfect cops.......The rest he put in cars.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Bully, once upon a time- the sub sections made sense, but right now I'm with a partner whose handling a large $$$ asset forfieture, and tow of my other partners are working up a search warrant- all of this is due to invs. in "my jursidiction", but now its time to go "elesewhere" to handle the follow up( which isn't the respnsibility of another dept).We are no longer living in the olden days of "limited peace officer" B.S.....
                    Last edited by DOAcop38; 03-16-2011, 06:01 PM.
                    "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DAL View Post
                      In ordinary English usage, the lack of a quantifier (such as all or every) usually means that the statement applies to many members of the group but not all.

                      For example, if I were to say that Mexicans are impoverished, that would not mean that people such as Carlos Slim, the world's wealthiest man, did not exist.

                      Hence no assertion was made about all 9000 LAPD officers. As IE Copper said, the attitude was more prevalent many years ago. I was told that it was an attitude fostered in the academy.
                      Thank you for the free English lesson, however your statement is still ridiculous because I doubt it even applies to "many" or most officers. Most just want to do the job and go home and could care less who is better than who. DOA said it correctly about relations being good. An Officer is and Officer regardless of the agency. Some have an attitude, some do not.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Simple.. Don't pay your union dues so you won't be a member of another departments union. Good news, bigger pay check.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          We have the same issue...like bully said we are still trying to get our 830.1. We do have a good relationship with 98% of the officers of LAPD and those officers want nothing to do with the schools! It is the higher ups that want to take over everything...With us if LAPD takes over the schools they are not going to get any money from LAUSD and thats why it has not happened.

                          DOA in the end its all about the $$$

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by LAschoolCop View Post
                            We have the same issue...like bully said we are still trying to get our 830.1. We do have a good relationship with 98% of the officers of LAPD and those officers want nothing to do with the schools! It is the higher ups that want to take over everything...With us if LAPD takes over the schools they are not going to get any money from LAUSD and thats why it has not happened.

                            DOA in the end its all about the $$$
                            "sadly" that, and power politics! I have LAPD associates that know they'll be deployed at LAX whenever there is a serious crisis. Even in times of high visibility, they'll be a "call out" for overtime for LAPD personnel, usually paid for by LAX and TSA. No big thing. The problem is what i've seen is that "someone" always starts talking "you should be merged with us" or "you shouldn't exist" without any real justification.and like with LAUSD, the "bean and ribbon counters" with LAX civie mgm't will NOT pay for what they feel they are supposed to get for free( which is LAPD services, if they don't have to have their own) with us, its a federal requirement to exist,....
                            "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DOAcop38 View Post
                              "sadly" that, and power politics! I have LAPD associates that know they'll be deployed at LAX whenever there is a serious crisis. Even in times of high visibility, they'll be a "call out" for overtime for LAPD personnel, usually paid for by LAX and TSA. No big thing. The problem is what i've seen is that "someone" always starts talking "you should be merged with us" or "you shouldn't exist" without any real justification.and like with LAUSD, the "bean and ribbon counters" with LAX civie mgm't will NOT pay for what they feel they are supposed to get for free( which is LAPD services, if they don't have to have their own) with us, its a federal requirement to exist,....
                              with us there is no requirement to exist Not only do we have LAPD we have LASD trying to take the schools! DOA cant they all just leave us alone??????

                              Comment

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