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  • Pers

    The other day I was talking to fellow officers and I was shocked to learn that the majority of people I work with believe there is "No way" the state can, and or, will reduce our pension. Everyone believed that the state will just tier off the pension for new hires. Frankly I don’t see that being the end of it at all. It wont save hardly anything immediately and our state is definitely thinking in the short term sense right now as evidenced by their plan to sell off state buildings then renting them back.

    I would not be surprised if Brown says, "The money that you now have in PERS has been put in a 401K, gook luck with that."

    What do you guys think?
    Originally posted by FJDave
    GM, you have just set the bar that much higher for the rest of us in our witty, sarcastic responses. I yield to you! Good job, kind Sir!

    District B13
    "We are not cops nor Feds." yet he still poses as an officer Hmmmm


    Grant us grace, fearlessly, to contend against evil and to make no peace with oppression.--WWII memorial

    "I have loved justice and hated iniquity, therefore I die in exile."

    Pope Gregory V II

  • #2
    I doubt that it is possible to reduce pension benefits for those already in the system. Changing pension terms depends on state and federal law, as well as negotiated contract provisions. The governor certainly can't make changes unilaterally. Private companies can terminate a pension plan early, provided they comply with federal law, but that requires making provisions to cover future liabilities. California is in such a hole on CALPERS that I don't think it can cover liabilities.

    One way to effectively cut back on pensions for those already in the system is to demand huge increases in employee contributions. Another is to cut or at least not increase salaries, which would keep a pension based on salary from being as large as projected.
    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • #3
      I think that, for once, I'm REALLY happy to be in the LA County retirement system. LACERA is almost fully funded. As a matter of fact, PERS is looking at restructuring their system and using LACERA as a model. We may not have [email protected], but we are not sweating the whole retirement thing. I sure hope you PERS folks come out of this relatively unscathed.
      sigpic
      Originally posted by Smurfette
      Lord have mercy. You're about as slick as the business side of duct tape.
      Originally posted by DAL
      You are without doubt a void surrounded by a sphincter muscle.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by DAL View Post
        The governor certainly can't make changes unilaterally.
        Very true....Ahnold tried a couple times and gave up after he failed.
        sigpic
        Originally posted by Smurfette
        Lord have mercy. You're about as slick as the business side of duct tape.
        Originally posted by DAL
        You are without doubt a void surrounded by a sphincter muscle.

        Comment


        • #5
          My dept...currently has [email protected] are seriously thinking [email protected] for the new hires. That would make three tiers.

          Some years they offer COLA some years they don't (for the ones retiring). They didn't give it two years ago...but last year they did.

          Yeah...Arnold is a trip...revamping workmans comp...and trying to mess with Ventura. Everyone able to retire were getting their "numbers" in case it passed. Mass exodus!
          Last edited by deputy x 2; 12-27-2010, 07:05 PM.
          This profession is not for people looking for positive reinforcement from the public. Very often it can be a thankless job and you can't desire accolades, because those are not usually forthcoming. Just do your job to the best of your ability and live with the decisions you've made.

          Comment


          • #6
            PERS is a separate fund from the CA budget and cannot be tapped without a pro-vote from the PERS manager. You should read the programs and the site to find out how stable the fund is. Brown did borrow money from PERS during his first service as Governor and it was fully repaid with interest.

            Your agency participation is the determinate factor for participation in PERS. With their participation, PERS participants are guaranteed their retirement under the plans offered when they entered. They cannot be modified to a lesser program; but, they can be improved to a greater program.

            Here is their site..........read the information and acquaint yourselves with the programs so you are not in the dark.

            http://www.calpers.ca.gov/
            Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence!

            [George Washington (1732 - 1799)]

            Comment


            • #7
              I am very happy that our pension is totally seperate from both the city and state, not to mention almost fully funded....I don't trust the political powers that be not to tap into my money in order to satisfy their insatiable thirst for spending other peoples money.
              "For he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer." Romans 13:4

              Comment


              • #8
                PERS cannot be raided to help the state budget. Pete Wilson did that, and a law was passed not long afterward that bans it. As far as Brown goes, he better not try to screw the unions over. It was law enforcement organizations and unions that supported him and helped him win the election. He owes those organizations and their members 100% support in return.
                Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. - Ronald Reagan

                I don't think It'll happen in the US because we don't trust our government. We are a country of skeptics, raised by skeptics, founded by skeptics. - Amaroq

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ateamer View Post
                  PERS cannot be raided to help the state budget. Pete Wilson did that, and a law was passed not long afterward that bans it. As far as Brown goes, he better not try to screw the unions over. It was law enforcement organizations and unions that supported him and helped him win the election. He owes those organizations and their members 100% support in return.
                  I think the LAPD union supported Meg Whitman.

                  A law restricting borrowing from PERS is just that -- a law. The legislature and governor may be able to repeal it. However, they can't impair the obligations of a contract that already been entered into.

                  I do not know what will happen to municipalities that are in CALPERS if those municipalities file Chapter 9 bankruptcy. In bankruptcy, impairment of contracts is possible. We may find out with Vallejo.
                  Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                  Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ateamer View Post
                    PERS cannot be raided to help the state budget. Pete Wilson did that, and a law was passed not long afterward that bans it. As far as Brown goes, he better not try to screw the unions over. It was law enforcement organizations and unions that supported him and helped him win the election. He owes those organizations and their members 100% support in return.
                    I agree. Brown openly whored himself out to public service unions. Spitting in the face of the very people who secured his appointment is not something he would do, I would think. The Governator did try to get legislation passed that would allow him to borrow money from PERS, but he failed miserably. Pete Wilson Borrowed a half Billion dollars from PERS in the early 90's, but PERS was happy to help. The state was giving out IOU's to state workers instead of paychecks! I don't think that PERS would willingly offer help right now.
                    "I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." Winston Churchill

                    Liberals are very broadminded: they are always willing to give careful consideration to both sides of the same side.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Los Angeles, September 16, 2010 – Today the Los Angeles Police Protective League endorsed Meg Whitman for California governor in the general election.
                      http://lapd.com/news/pr/lappl_endors..._for_governor/

                      Jerry Brown is unpredictable, and probably is not planning on another term. I don't think he made any promises, other than not to raise taxes without voter approval -- not that he has much of a choice with the 2/3 vote requirement in place.
                      Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                      Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DAL View Post
                        I think the LAPD union supported Meg Whitman.
                        LAPPL is a small union compared to those that supported Brown. LAPPL has maybe 10,000 members. PORAC has 62,000 members, CCPOA has 32,000, SEIU has over 700,000 members. That's over three quarters of a million votes that Brown is concerned with from PERS members versus a small fraction of that from a non-PERS union.
                        Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. - Ronald Reagan

                        I don't think It'll happen in the US because we don't trust our government. We are a country of skeptics, raised by skeptics, founded by skeptics. - Amaroq

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SgtCHP View Post
                          PERS is a separate fund from the CA budget and cannot be tapped without a pro-vote from the PERS manager. You should read the programs and the site to find out how stable the fund is. Brown did borrow money from PERS during his first service as Governor and it was fully repaid with interest.

                          Your agency participation is the determinate factor for participation in PERS. With their participation, PERS participants are guaranteed their retirement under the plans offered when they entered. They cannot be modified to a lesser program; but, they can be improved to a greater program.

                          Here is their site..........read the information and acquaint yourselves with the programs so you are not in the dark.

                          http://www.calpers.ca.gov/

                          I have read all of that and more. I have also been paying close attention to the public sentiment regarding our retirement. Has anyone else been paying attention to how angry people are at us for our “excessive pension?”

                          Did anyone else watch the Chicken Little piece that 60 minutes did on our pension? Does anyone else listen to John and Ken? I know you all disagree with this stuff but ignore this at your peril.

                          I know that PERS is solvent, I know that only 22% of retirement income comes from public funds. I know they are playing fast and loose with the number to make it seem worse. One article read on the John and Ken show, as if it was the gospel, showed that in 4 years all local revenue will be used exclusively to pay our pension. The numbers varied, in OC it was 94% in San Bernardino it was 125%. It’s all nonsense of course, but the public is believing it and PERS has remained silent, except to its members.

                          As for those of you who think Brown is pro union, did any of you watch the debates? In the last debate Whitman said she was going to convert all non-safety pensions to a 401K but leave safety with a defined benefit. Brown responded by saying she was in the pocket of public safety and that safety retirement was not exempt from the same cuts that miscellaneous received. He specifically said that our pension is 25% of the pension budget and needed to be cut as well.

                          You guys think that this or that law will protect us? Get enough voters to believe they must revoke our PERS and it can happen.

                          I do not advocate any reductions in PERS and agree there is no real need. But reality has nothing to do with what they do in this state. I also understand that PERS is separate but that too can be changed. Every single News organization has a clear mandate to look for any impropriates in PERS management and, if located, that mismanagement will be used as the rallying cry for greater state control.

                          I don’t think we should just sit back and hope that it all works out. Absent our contribution to the debate, anything can happen. As Churchill said, “Hope is not a plan.”
                          Originally posted by FJDave
                          GM, you have just set the bar that much higher for the rest of us in our witty, sarcastic responses. I yield to you! Good job, kind Sir!

                          District B13
                          "We are not cops nor Feds." yet he still poses as an officer Hmmmm


                          Grant us grace, fearlessly, to contend against evil and to make no peace with oppression.--WWII memorial

                          "I have loved justice and hated iniquity, therefore I die in exile."

                          Pope Gregory V II

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            CALPERS is actually a collection of a large number of different funds with differing eligibility, rules, and benefits. For example, there are several different plans for municipalities that participate, and different terms for different classes of state employees.

                            In general, I think that CALPERS is solvent in the sense that it is able to make current pension payments, but is underfunded in the sense that it would does not have sufficient funds to pay expected future obligations, assuming a reasonable rate of return on its investments. So CALPERS will be relying upon increased pensions contributions from those currently working in order to pay future benefits. To that extent, it is like social security, where current workers pay some of the benefits for those who already have retired.
                            Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                            Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Garbage Man View Post
                              As for those of you who think Brown is pro union, did any of you watch the debates? In the last debate Whitman said she was going to convert all non-safety pensions to a 401K but leave safety with a defined benefit. Brown responded by saying she was in the pocket of public safety and that safety retirement was not exempt from the same cuts that miscellaneous received. He specifically said that our pension is 25% of the pension budget and needed to be cut as well.
                              The words were no sooner out of the withered old gomer's mouth than I decided to vote for None of the Above. I was just saying that Brown has an obligation to the unions, and needs to be reminded of that frequently. Oh yes, I am all for lobbyists. They have represented my interests quite well. I have only six years to go and need to know that when I am old, the pension checks will be deposited on time.
                              Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. - Ronald Reagan

                              I don't think It'll happen in the US because we don't trust our government. We are a country of skeptics, raised by skeptics, founded by skeptics. - Amaroq

                              Comment

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