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Police agencies that do not carry firearm on duty

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Magic Matt View Post
    It’s insane to put on a badge (target) and not a gun…

    When one of their officers gets killed, how big a payout will the jury award the widow.
    Actually, it doesn't work like that in California. If you are killed on the job in California, you are limited to workers compensation benefits. In this case, the deceased employee would be 100% disabled, which would pay the widow (I believe) $986 per week for the rest of her life.

    If employer negligence was involved you can ask that they double the award, but that is hard to prove based solely on an unarmed policy, when the Legislature gives the employing agency the discretion to determine whether to arm. If an agency intentionally inflicts an injury (managers conspire to kill an employee who was about to expose their wrongdoing) then in addition to workers comp, a regular civil suit becomes fair game.

    FWIW, in those cases where an agency has the discretion to arm and does not, it is usually a small and specialized police department serving the needs of a small government facility, Their ability to perform police work is often limited by budget, personnel, training, experience and equipment. Beyond taking a minor crime report, almost anything else is referred to the city PD of county SO to handle.
    Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

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    • #17
      Post has been edited.
      Last edited by MarioS; 02-18-2011, 05:58 AM.

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      • #18
        I know of at least two colleges in Ohio that just got guns--they were unarmed and sworn for decades. I believe the police that work at the state mental health facilities are also unarmed.

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        • #19
          On the reverse USC is not sworn and armed. They have arrest authority based on an MOU with LAPD.
          Originally Posted by VegasMetro
          maybe it’s me but I think a six pack and midget porn makes for good times?????

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          • #20
            ours carry.......
            Gotta catch em allll.........

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            • #21
              Originally posted by deputy x 2 View Post
              For you to say,"So yeah they are less than a real cop" is straight up disrespectful.

              There are many jobs that I wouldn't even consider doing....but someone has to or has chosen it for one reason or another. Who are you to make that judgement?
              I'm not trying to disrespect them. We have unarmed civilian workers who are essential to the department. We have unarmed corrections deputies that are essential to law enforcement. But if someone can't handle all the problems the police are typically tasked with... they simply are not police... I don't care if they have the "authority" in fact every person in the state has the authority to make an arrest. But without a gun an officer of the law in this country can not face some of the most violent crimes we have. They are almost worthless in that regard or cannon fodder.

              If a firefighter had no nozzle, are they still a firefighter?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by nobodyjr View Post
                I'm not trying to disrespect them. We have unarmed civilian workers who are essential to the department. We have unarmed corrections deputies that are essential to law enforcement. But if someone can't handle all the problems the police are typically tasked with... they simply are not police... I don't care if they have the "authority" in fact every person in the state has the authority to make an arrest. But without a gun an officer of the law in this country can not face some of the most violent crimes we have. They are almost worthless in that regard or cannon fodder.

                If a firefighter had no nozzle, are they still a firefighter?
                The problem is they do face some of the most violent crimes....remember we don't pick our day...our day picks us. As L-1 stated...they rely on local agencies for assistance..but none the less..they are first responders. Sometimes you can't call a time out.

                If a firefighter had no nozzle...they still have a hose...and can use whatever tools they have to fight a fire...so yes...they are still firefighters.

                Somehow I think I'm beating a dead horse.
                This profession is not for people looking for positive reinforcement from the public. Very often it can be a thankless job and you can't desire accolades, because those are not usually forthcoming. Just do your job to the best of your ability and live with the decisions you've made.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by L-1 View Post
                  LA County Probation used to prohibit their POs from being armed while on duty. Don't know what their status is now. It used to be a big joke to see them go to the locker room at end of watch to put their guns on.

                  Hospital Police for the State Department of Mental Health are also unarmed at most facilities.
                  Probation Officer here in rural Nor Cal. AMAZING and PATHETIC that there are still a few Probation Departments in California that don't arm their P.O.s. Thank God my chief is law enforcement oriented and equips/trains us appropriately. We're armed and work with and train with our S.O. and PD bros regularly. Still a few "Hug a Thug" Chief Probation Officers remaining that run their Probation Department like Social Services. Scary. I believe L.A. County at least arms their Task Force P.O.s (gang, dope, etc.) Ridiculous that they're not all armed.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by MarioS View Post
                    I remember watching some video on TV of police officers in Europe who were not allowed to carry a gun on duty, and I remember thinking it was one of the most ridiculous and unsafe things I had ever heard of. Surprised to hear that some agencies in the states let their officers perform their duties with a gun...
                    I believe police officers in England do not carry, though I could be wrong.
                    “Let him go, Lou. Someone driving that fast has no time for a ticket.”
                    -Chief Wiggum

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Magic Matt View Post
                      It’s insane to put on a badge (target) and not a gun…

                      When one of their officers gets killed, how big a payout will the jury award the widow.
                      Depts that don't allow "on duty carry" ( Like Pasadena City College PD) expect all the same response like they would from a municipal PD, YET think that the "no gun restriction" will protect the organization from liability

                      If an officer or citizen gets hurt or killed because of the inability of the officer to protect him/herself, the district will simply just pay the lawsuit.

                      Luckily, as a CA. Peace officer( per penal code section 830.33 d), I have a supportive city council, and federal mandates that I be armed.We had a local politico,who was pro LAPD, "everything else sucks", that demanded that my dept be unarmed back in the early '80s.Crime stats,including violent crime in the area ,jumped to almost 500% in less than 5 months, and the culmination was a homicide from a heist of a jeweler travelling through, a homicde involving a husband stalking his airline employed wife, and a wild shoot out between two armed parking lot robbers and several supposedly "unarmed" patrol officers. within a week after those chain of events, a memo was sent out that all officers be ARMED at all times, and officers in roll call were ordered to immediately go to their lockers and put their firearms and ammo back onto their duty belts..............
                      "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by mtxpro752 View Post
                        On the reverse USC is not sworn and armed. They have arrest authority based on an MOU with LAPD.
                        ...830.7(b)PC...........

                        The CA. Dept of Mental Health and the Ca. Dept of Health Services have police officer units( they are both unarmed on duty,cause they basically run jail facilities of dangerous,mentally ill individuals)
                        "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

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                        • #27
                          There are a few Welfare Fraud Investigators who are not allowed to carry. I have a friend who worked for one of those Departments. They were not allowed to carry and eventually they were told to turn in their Badge and Creds at the end of the duty day. Social Services at its finest.

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                          • #28
                            I went to small, private Christian college in Mass. The officers there were sworn, had attended the Mass State Police Academy (though I don't know if they did the trooper or the municipal program), and had full arrest powers throughout the state. However, they did not carry anything other than a flashlight, handcuffs, and sometimes a nightstick. They were rumored to have a shotgun in the trunk of each patrol vehicle and/or an arms locker back at the public safety building in case of an active shooter, hostage situation, etc, but I don't know if that's true or not because I only heard it from other students. Mostly, the thought was that if such a thing happened, the town police (who, obviously, were armed) and the State Troopers would be called.

                            Now, like I said, it was a small (1,600 enrolled) college in a rural town of about 4,000 people. Plus, it was Christian, it was a dry campus, and there were visitation rules. Mostly the officers just handed out parking tickets or fines to kids who came back drunk (we were allowed to drink off campus); there were occasional arrests (3 or 4 a year), usually for bike theft or creating a disturbance or something. Never anything big. And yeah, knowing the school, it might seem silly to a lot of people to see their cops (who not everyone even knew were real LEOs) walking around with guns. But IMO, even in a place like that, having officers who were not armed seems dangerous.
                            "If the police have to come get you, they're bringing an @$$ kicking with them!"
                            -Chris Rock

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