A few ?'s regarding SoCal LE

[MacGregor]

I searched, but to no avail.

1. Which SoCal LE agencies, if any, investigate missing persons, particularly in the San Diego area? I've checked the sites for various agencies, but none specifically list Missing Persons as an available unit. For some reason, I have a profound interest in working Missing Persons cases; I guess it's an inherant need to provide for the family of victims closure and/or solace on some level in those circumstances.

2. With the budget constraints and cutbacks and the lack of academies being organized, does self sponsoring through a POST program have any affect on being hired once completed, provided a position is available at that time?

[andy5746]

I searched, but to no avail.

1. Which SoCal LE agencies, if any, investigate missing persons, particularly in the San Diego area? I've checked the sites for various agencies, but none specifically list Missing Persons as an available unit. For some reason, I have a profound interest in working Missing Persons cases; I guess it's an inherant need to provide for the family of victims closure and/or solace on some level in those circumstances.

Most agencies don't have a missing persons unit per se. Example: On the L.A. Sheriff's Department, the local station detective unit handles missing persons cases for the first 30 days, then the case is assigned to Homicide Bureau. Critical missing persons (child abduction, for example) may be assigned directly to Major Crimes Bureau. Basically, the cases are handled as a collateral by various different units. There are other scenarios as well, but you get the basic jist. It will take years of regular service before you ever get to a unit that will handle missing persons, everyone has to pay their dues first.

If you really, really, really have to do that and only that, then you may want to look into being a private investigator.

2. With the budget constraints and cutbacks and the lack of academies being organized, does self sponsoring through a POST program have any affect on being hired once completed, provided a position is available at that time?

Some departments hire self-sponsored folks, generally the smaller departments that don't want to front the money for the training. Bottom line, if they aren't hiring, then it doesn't matter if you are a lateral or a newbie. Gotta have a job opening to get hired. The academies are being cut back, not as a cost saving measure, but because the job openings aren't there, so there is no need to train the folks to fill the spots that don't exist.

Some departments prefer to put their own slant on their training academies and incorporate their policies, procedures and tactics in the process. Kind of a cookie-cutter type idea, mold everyone to fit the department. Self-sponsored through a POST approved non-affiliated academy might not be as appealing... never know until you try.

Good luck!

[L-1]

Each municipal police agency or county sheriffs department is responsible for investigating missing person cases occurring within their respective jurisdictions. It is rare to find a dedicated unit assigned solely to this task. Absent signs of criminal abduction or a medical impairment, there is no basis for conducting a missing persons investigation and the number of people who meet that criteria are very few.

With respect to your second question, due to budget constraints, many California Police Departments are only hiring people who have POST certificates or who are POST qualified (have been through an academy). For this reason, having sent yourself through a California POST academy is an advantage. However, many large agencies still insist that you go through their academy, so that you are trained according to their procedures and policies. If you are applying with those agencies, having been through the academy will be of no advantage. . .

[Flying Pig]

Then your goal is to be a P.I. or work on becoming a detective when you get in to LE.
A patrol officer will respond and take the initial report. Youll forward it on, and an hour later youll come back to the same house and take the recovery report.
Based on the department, it will be assigned to a detective. Where I work, they go to the homicide detectives. Another agency I worked for all missing persons cases went to Auto Theft. If something developed, the Auto guys could bring in the Homicide or Sex Crimes. But the initial follow up was Auto Theft.
I don't know of an agency in So Cal that has an actual Missing Persons Unit. I've taken hundreds of missing persons reports and can only think of two that involved foul play.
When you become a cop, you will learn that 99.9999% (not an official stat) of all of the missing persons cases you will deal with are because the other person doesnt want to be found ie. runaway, wife cheating on her husband, visa versa....

If you have the ability to put yourself through an academy, I would do it. Try and get into an academy that is affiliated with the department you want. For example, if you want to work for Riverside PD/SO, try and get a slot at Ben Clark through Riverside Community. San Bernardino County agencies, go to San Bernardino. Reason is, you are actually performing in front of the officers you want to work with. Nothing better than your Background Investigator from San Bernardino PD talking to your academy instructor who is a Sgt at San Bernardino PD.

[MacGregor]

Most agencies don't have a missing persons unit per se. Example: On the L.A. Sheriff's Department, the local station detective unit handles missing persons cases for the first 30 days, then the case is assigned to Homicide Bureau. Critical missing persons (child abduction, for example) may be assigned directly to Major Crimes Bureau. Basically, the cases are handled as a collateral by various different units. There are other scenarios as well, but you get the basic jist. It will take years of regular service before you ever get to a unit that will handle missing persons, everyone has to pay their dues first.

If you really, really, really have to do that and only that, then you may want to look into being a private investigator.

It's not that I really "have to", it's just something I find interesting and would like to look into as a possible career move. It's not a deal-breaker by any means. I figured there wouldn't much in the way of LE investigating missing persons, as a crime would have to be committed and that's not always [i.e. rarely] the case. I realize it takes awhile before getting to a detective unit, but one has to consider the advancement potential when looking for employment, especially in a field like law enforcement where there is such a diverse selection of transfers available.

Some departments hire self-sponsored folks, generally the smaller departments that don't want to front the money for the training. Bottom line, if they aren't hiring, then it doesn't matter if you are a lateral or a newbie. Gotta have a job opening to get hired. The academies are being cut back, not as a cost saving measure, but because the job openings aren't there, so there is no need to train the folks to fill the spots that don't exist.

In my defense, I did mention "provided positions were available at the time". A particular agency may not have the budget to justify the selection and hiring process, as well as an academy to hire new recruits, but there will always be a need - people retire, quit, promote to other units or lateral to other agencies (I read at either this or another forum that SDPD was losing approx. 10 officers per month due to various reasons.). At some point, the vacancies will need to be filled. I was just wondering if self sponsoring would be an advantage if the vacancies were there but the department was financially unable to hold an academy class.

[MacGregor]

With respect to your second question, due to budget constraints, many California Police Departments are only hiring people who have POST certificates or who are POST qualified (have been through an academy). For this reason, having sent yourself through a California POST academy is an advantage. However, many large agencies still insist that you go through their academy, so that you are trained according to their procedures and policies. If you are applying with those agencies, having been through the academy will be of no advantage. . .

With your response and the previous poster's response, it seems that the self sponsored POST certification, which is state regulated, is only accepted or recognized by certain departments/agencies. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of its existence?

I guess the appropriate question here would be: how does one know which agencies accept the self sponsored POST as sufficient training and which require a recruit to attend their academy, even if that recruit is already POST certified?

[MacGregor]

Then your goal is to be a P.I. or work on becoming a detective when you get in to LE.

You're right about being a detective; it is definitely a career goal for me to be a law enforcement investigator. While patrol is a necessary part of law enforcement, it's not somewhere where I anticipate spending a career. I'll certainly do my time there, and be glad to do so, it's just not for me for the long term.

If you have the ability to put yourself through an academy, I would do it. Try and get into an academy that is affiliated with the department you want. For example, if you want to work for Riverside PD/SO, try and get a slot at Ben Clark through Riverside Community. San Bernardino County agencies, go to San Bernardino. Reason is, you are actually performing in front of the officers you want to work with. Nothing better than your Background Investigator from San Bernardino PD talking to your academy instructor who is a Sgt at San Bernardino PD.

That's an option I'm looking into, but still unsure. I'd hate to go through all that and it be a waste of time if departments refuse to recognize it. As of right now, I would have to pay out-of-state tuition, which will bring the total cost to around $10-12K. Financial aid may be applicable to this program, but with two degrees my FA is fairly tapped out. Self sponsoring isn't something I'm entirely set on doing just yet; I'm just doing the research should the opportunity become available.

You make a good point about attending in the area where you want to work - I had actually taken that into consideration. I'm sure it works the other way as well, even if it's not publicly known - an instructor sees a student who excels, and notifies a recruiter that they may want to talk to that student.

[LAC_LE]

If becoming an investigator is what you're ultimately looking to do, you may have more success at the state level. In California (and probably NM, too), there are numerous agencies like the Dept. of Consumer Affairs, Dept. of Ins., DOJ, Licensing Board, etc., that are looking to hire investigators outright. All of the CA jobs can be found at the state of California job link below:

http://www.spb.ca.gov/index.htm?e=1

Regarding investigator jobs, below is a link to the thread I posted last year (almost a year ago to the day, oddly enough) when I was looking into working for the state:

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110645

L-1, Sgttom, and several others were kind enough to post some really great intel there regarding state jobs and the state application process. Their info proved very beneficial, too--though I ultimately stayed in the private sector (though at a much better job with a much better employer ), I was starting to get some positive replies back from some of the agencies I had applied at.

Hope that helps, and good luck with your search. Feel free to PM me about the process as well and I'll try my best to help out.

[MacGregor]

Thanks LAC_LE, state level is something I'm considering, although I'm probably more inclined to look at state level parole. It seems that state agencies are not only more competitive, but they are more......picky, at least here. We don't have self sponsoring for LE certification here, but it's been my experience that the state agencies here tend to prefer applicants who already hold a certification, meaning they've been employed and trained already (even when they advertise "No Experience Necessary").

[Garbage Man]

It kind of sounds like you have a half hearted interested in one small aspect of our job. This is not intended to as a slam, there is nothing wrong with not desperately wanting to be the police. The problem is it is so hard to get a job in this field right now it really is a huge waist of time for those who are not passionate about becoming blue. For years a lot of degreed professional types looked down on us because they were making a lot more money in other fields, most often they made way more than what we paid. During those times we were desperate to hire. At one point the state announced we had 8,000 unfilled cop jobs that we thought we would never get enough interest to fill. Now that the private sector has dried up and salaries have dropped, many of the folks who thought we were crazy to do this job are now making less money than us with a lot less stability. And they find themselves thinking, ‘well one aspect of that job seems like it would be Ok I guess. I do like that one TV show.’

The problem is that a lukewarm interest will get you nowhere. No mater how hard you try to look enthusiastic we are very good and seeing through the BS. We know who is just applying to temporarily fill the career gap. We just washed out the first two bands from our last recruitment for just those reasons.

“How long have you wanted to be a cop?”

“Lets see how long has the economy been in the crapper?”

“NEXT!”

We are today hiring the same people we have been hiring all along, hard working professionals who are passionate about doing whatever job they are called upon to do. All others need not apply.

[MacGregor]

It kind of sounds like you have a half hearted interested in one small aspect of our job. This is not intended to as a slam, there is nothing wrong with not desperately wanting to be the police. The problem is it is so hard to get a job in this field right now it really is a huge waist of time for those who are not passionate about becoming blue. For years a lot of degreed professional types looked down on us because they were making a lot more money in other fields, most often they made way more than what we paid. During those times we were desperate to hire. At one point the state announced we had 8,000 unfilled cop jobs that we thought we would never get enough interest to fill. Now that the private sector has dried up and salaries have dropped, many of the folks who thought we were crazy to do this job are now making less money than us with a lot less stability. And they find themselves thinking, ‘well one aspect of that job seems like it would be Ok I guess. I do like that one TV show.’

Why? Because I have ambition? Because I can see myself doing it, and doing it well? I think you may be missing the point here. I'm just researching different opportunities. What if I told you I also have an interest in working SWAT? I do. Or Harbor Patrol? I do. It doesn't mean that I will, nor does it mean that it's "all" I'm interested in. As I stated before, I'm not in CA. It would be a huge jump for me to pursue a career in LE in CA, and an even bigger jump to pay upwards of $10K or more to self sponsor my POST certification when some agencies apparently completely disregard it.

The problem is that a lukewarm interest will get you nowhere. No mater how hard you try to look enthusiastic we are very good and seeing through the BS. We know who is just applying to temporarily fill the career gap. We just washed out the first two bands from our last recruitment for just those reasons.

It's definitely not a luke warm interest in LE. I've been pursuing fit or awhile. I enlisted in the military to gain experience for it. I put myself through school to get two degrees to be qualified for it at the Federal level. I've even taken LE sponsored community relations programs to learn more about it. I simply just want to make sure of what I would be getting meyself into prior to pursuing anything further.

“How long have you wanted to be a cop?”

About 15 years, give or take.

“Lets see how long has the economy been in the crapper?”

Two years and two months (since November '07).

“NEXT!”


We are today hiring the same people we have been hiring all along, hard working professionals who are passionate about doing whatever job they are called upon to do. All others need not apply.

Good to know. NEXT!

[nobodyjr]

SDPD has one detective assigned to missing persons.

It would take you about 20 years to get that slot out of the academy. If it is even possible... the slot could go away, or it could never open. It's hard to get into LE and say "I want to do such and such" when it's a rare assignment. The jobs open so rarely it takes years and years to get them.

And missing persons is not what it seems on TV. It's mostly paperwork. Real missing persons cases with suspected foul play get homicide treatment.

[L-1]

With your response and the previous poster's response, it seems that the self sponsored POST certification, which is state regulated, is only accepted or recognized by certain departments/agencies. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of its existence?

Not really. POST only ensures that minimum general standards are met. However, certain agencies have very specific procedures, policies and operational cultures, all of which are taught in their academy. The procedures, policy and culture of the Los Angeles Police Department are vastly different from those of the Shafter Police Department. The training given personnel from Shafter PD may not be sufficient to operate within LAPD's policy and procedures.

Similarly, the mission of the Department of Fish and Game is vastly different from that of LAPD. If someone left LAPD to go to work for Fish and Game, they would no doubt go through the F&G academy, to learn the unique laws they enforce and the unusual settings under which they operate.

I guess the appropriate question here would be: how does one know which agencies accept the self sponsored POST as sufficient training and which require a recruit to attend their academy, even if that recruit is already POST certified?

You have to ask the agency in question. If it is a large agency (1,000 or more sworn) odds are you will have to go through their academy.

[hbliam]

You have to ask the agency in question. If it is a large agency (1,000 or more sworn) odds are you will have to go through their academy.

Or maybe so a search. This question has been asked and answered many times. Though, after reading the reply to garbage man I'm surprised the OP doesn't know the answer. He seems to know everything else.

[MacGregor]

Not really. POST only ensures that minimum general standards are met. However, certain agencies have very specific procedures, policies and operational cultures, all of which are taught in their academy. The procedures, policy and culture of the Los Angeles Police Department are vastly different from those of the Shafter Police Department. The training given personnel from Shafter PD may not be sufficient to operate within LAPD's policy and procedures.

I guess I could have phrased that better. I wasn't sure if an applicant would have to do their entire academy or just some kind of abbreviated training to get caught up with the repective department's policies and procedures. If the former it would seem that the self sponsorship would be futile.

You have to ask the agency in question. If it is a large agency (1,000 or more sworn) odds are you will have to go through their academy.

Yeah, I've noticed a few agency sites list CA POST as acceptable for Lateral, but there isn't alot of information available beyond that. Those are details that I'll have to inquire about more thoroughly when the time comes.