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  • "Medical" Marijuana artards are taking over California...

    post deleted
    Last edited by avalon42; 03-13-2015, 07:21 PM.

  • #2
    Yesterday I got called to jury on a Meth case and one of the jurors openly said he felt all... ALL... drugs should be legalized and that it is the job of the jury to fix the moral shortcomings of the legislature on this issue... sigh

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm not a proponent or opponent of legalizing marijuana, but isn't it in the grand scheme of things beneficial that California Legalize marijuana ?

      Wouldn't that cut down on drug money that goes into the hands of criminal organizations and at the same time free up police resources. Resources that could go into battling hard drugs such as meth and cocaine ?

      I'm speaking as a civilian and a person who does not live in California but intends to move there within a years time. I do not have the LE experiences that you gentlemen might have so my perspective probably is different.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by gibonez View Post
        Wouldn't that cut down on drug money that goes into the hands of criminal organizations and at the same time free up police resources. Resources that could go into battling hard drugs such as meth and cocaine ?
        Legalizing marijuana will only increase problems to society as a whole, just like decriminalizing "only" medical marijuana did. That scam was perpetrated on the electorate under the guise of "compassion for those with chronic illness", but look what a fiasco it turned out to be! Virtually anyone can buy weed for virtually any condition. "Clinics" are being robbed regularly and many, many more people are driving while using marijuana. The "grow" industry is destroying small towns in Northern CA and believe me, these businesses will not stop producing or start paying taxes if legalization occurs.

        Once marijuana is legalized, it will be like the kid on the college campus said: "We can smoke it here on campus!" ( or anywhere, anyplace and any time). Great, as if LE doesn't have enough problems associated with alcohol abuse.

        As stupid as the young voter (lately) has proved to be, just wait for this improvement to sink in. The same people who promoted the medical marijuana initiative and claimed they were only interested in helping sick people lied then, and clearly had complete legalization in mind. They are lying now about "only legalizing marijuana". It will be a lot easier to get stupid, stoned and socially inept voters to go along with legalization of all drugs (heroin, cocaine, meth, etc...) now that the "camel's head is in the door."

        Avalon42: Don't worry about needing less cops and corrections personnel because of "less crime." That's total BS. Worry about more crime because of less employable young people in the workplace. More addiction (to "hard" drugs), less taxable income and a demand for more welfare will be the result. Where will this welfare money come from, when industry leaves the state in even greater numbers? There might be less cops, but not because of a lack of demand. Neither the state nor the cities and counties will have the resources to hire LEOs or provide them with decent pay and benefits.
        "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

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        • #5
          There are going to be (at last count) three propositions on the November 2010 ballet to COMPLETELY legalize marijuana.....never mind for 'just' medical use.

          In at least one of the propositions, the state itself would be selling weed, much like some states sell alcohol.

          This will get interesting if one or more of them pass......as MJ is still illegal at the federal level
          The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

          "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

          "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by LA DEP View Post
            In at least one of the propositions, the state itself would be selling weed, much like some states sell alcohol.
            No problems associated with that proposal huh? Let's list some possibles:
            1) What will the state pay the growers (to keep it cheap at wholesale)?
            2) What will the state charge the buyers (to maximize profits for the state)?
            3) What kind of quality control will the state provide?
            4) What happens when adverse effects (ie: lung cancer) is associated with smoking weed? Will the taxpayers get stuck with the bill?
            5) If higher (no pun intended) quality pot is sold on the black market and no taxes are paid by the dealers, what are the criminal penalties?
            6) Will there be prohibitions against students in schools or public safety employees using pot?
            7) Since blood tests can only show someone has used marijuana recently, what happens if people like public safety employees, doctors, public transportation workers, pilots, employees of nuclear facilities, are found with THC in their system, but claim to have used it off-duty?

            Fee free to add to the list.
            "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

            Comment


            • #7
              I think it is difficult to say with any certainty the effects of decriminalization (if not outright legalization) of marijuana. A lot of the arguments that you hear about pot are the same that have been used against alcohol in the past, and we have seen how well prohibition worked.

              The government has been given by the people the right to control or outlaw the sales of things that it deems dangerous for the public. In my mind alcohol is far more dangerous than marijuana, it is far more available to people of all ages, more pervasive in society and more destructive as far as a drug goes. Alcohol though has been a part of our culture long enough that we have chosen to ignore it's harmful effects and instead simply espouse moderation. It's funny that so many people I know in law enforcement who believe strongly that marijuana should remain illegal regularly drink to excess, and can be found to be far more inebriated at a BBQ from all the beer than they would from a joint.

              You can't argue that alcohol is less dangerous than marijuana, look at the number of DUI related deaths in America every year. The latest number I have is 17,000 people. That is 17,000 lives ended directly as a result of alcohol consumption. You can also add the harmful effects of alcoholism, and for good measure fetal alcohol syndrome to our society. The American Medical Society lists deaths as a result of smoking to be around 400,000. The number of deaths caused by marijuana use are far fewer, death as a result of use is listed in studies I found as zero. This is misleading though because I think you could find alcohol and marijuana use as factors in DUI, as well as the ancillary deaths caused by people involved in the drug trade. Still the numbers would not seem to approach anywhere near that of alcohol.

              The criminal element in the drug trade is one of the greatest threats to our safety as a society, it is rarely the user himself who is the threat but instead the system which exists to support his habit. This includes; grow ops, dealers, suppliers, and narco trafficers. Society also does not benefit from the taxes which could be gained from the sale of marijuana. The gateway argument is a false one, the gateway is not the drug itself, but the methods and means which are used to procure it, if we had to see a dealer every time we wanted a bottle of beer, you would see beer considered a gateway drug.

              As a society we have already agreed that the sale of harmful materials (alcohol, and tobacco) can be regulated, and regulated effectively. We have a system in place to regulate these industries, these systems could also be applied to marijuana.

              If our society says they accept marijuana use to be on par with alcohol in terms of direct danger to our society (which if you strip or marginalize the criminal element it is), then why should it not be legal?

              I would much rather see the government collect revenues from taxes, free up police from targeting the individual user, and take the additional funds and resources to combat the criminal element from the illegal dealer level and above.

              We can have safe and sensible laws concerning the use, and sales of marijuana. We can decriminalize all possession for personal use, and focus our energies on those who continue to break the laws concerning sales.

              THE VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MINE AND MINE ALONE AND DO NOT REFLECT THOSE OF MY PRESENT OR FORMER AGENCY, THEY ARE SIMPLY MEANT AS A DISCUSSION ON THE PARALLELS OF ALCOHOL AND MARIJUANA USE

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by CA10-08 View Post
                I think it is difficult to say with any certainty the effects of decriminalization (if not outright legalization) of marijuana. A lot of the arguments that you hear about pot are the same that have been used against alcohol in the past, and we have seen how well prohibition worked.
                Your arguments really don't make a lot of sense. Possession of small amounts of marijuana were decriminalized decades ago. Complete legalization of marijuana doesn't mean alcohol will be replaced as a recreational drug. Beer, wine and other alcoholic beverages will simply be supplemented by another recreational drug with it's own set of problems. Kids and adults getting high on marijuana will try new things while under the influence and (of course) experience new problems like addiction. The answer will be (predictably enough): Legalize those drugs too!

                Considering the enormous costs to society over the years since the end of Prohibition, there is no justification to the notion that an increase in the use of marijuana will lead to a decrease in the use of alcohol. If anything, promoting the use of marijuana as a "safer alternative" will lead to more kids being introduced to alcoholic beverages and other drugs while under the influence of pot.

                If the government attempts to tax marijuana production or sell the substance itself, the results are also predictable: Continued black market growing, distribution and sales to avoid loss of profit. Unlike alcoholic beverages, growing marijuana doesn't require even a basic knowledge of chemistry. It can be done in one's own yard, if the grower isn't lazy or so stoned he/she would rather pay another to grow it for them.

                The effects of marijuana smoking on the lungs and other organs over long periods of time haven't been studied as closely as the long term use of alcohol, but there's no reason to believe the hazards are very different from long term ingestion of tobacco products. Lung cancers causes aren't as obvious as that as liver damage (caused by alcohol ingestion), but those killing "non-smokers" (of tobacco) are increasing in number annually. Our country spends billions dealing with those problems and now we want to add marijuana to them??? In the US, tobacco production, sales, and use became a culturally approved obsession for hundreds of years and now that we've began to address the costs of that on our collective health: "Here's something new to enjoy!!! Healthy smoke!!! Look cool, feel cool, be cool! " Yep. Great news.

                BTW: Rather than simply passing the on myths surrounding the "legalization" panacea, how about addressing the questions I posed? While I'm ambivalent about the harm caused by occasional use, the hidden or ignored social costs greatly concern me. If the state gets into the marijuana sales business, I'm even more concerned about how closely watched and controlled our government will become.
                Last edited by pulicords; 10-30-2009, 03:06 PM.
                "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Growing it will still be illegal under federal law. As it is, marijuana growing is a significant environmental problem.
                  Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                  Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by pulicords View Post
                    Your arguments really don't make a lot of sense. Possession of small amounts of marijuana were decriminalized decades ago.
                    23222b and 11357 HS are still on the books, and still regularly enforced. Now they may end up as infractions but they still cost the courts money, and time.

                    Legalization is not a panacea, but it is an option which needs to be looked at seriously, the methods we are using to fight drug use in America is failing, as are the methods to fight alcohol use among minors.

                    You raise good points and I won't pretend to know the answers, the state is already too far reaching in our lives. I can only give my thoughts on what are potential parallels between harmful, deadly substances (tobacco/alcohol) already controlled by the state.

                    DAL is absolutely right though grow-ops are an environmental disaster.

                    Just so we're clear here; I don't support the use of marijuana, I think it's a substance that causes harm to our society and kids. I would rather not have anyone use it, legal or not I would choose not to do it, and encourage anyone who would listen not to waste their time with it.
                    Last edited by CA10-08; 10-30-2009, 04:26 PM. Reason: spelling

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I do find it amusing that many of those who support environmental causes use marijuana. Similarly, many of those who are obsessive about organic produce smoke marijuana, which is grown using banned pesticides that are even more hazardous when inhaled than when ingested.
                      Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                      Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Imagine for a second that Marijuana is legalized for all in California.

                        Is there any machines or test procedures to legaly determine if a person is Driving under the influence of Marijuana ?

                        With the way things are heading it seems to me that within 10-15 years time Marijuana will be treated and enforced like Alcohol a legal substance sold only to adults and heavily taxed. I am just curious if there are any good detection and effective test methods that can be used in court against an intoxicated person using Marijuana.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yes, there are tests, but they are not as refined and precise as with DUI. I do not think there have been studies to correllate THC levels with driving impairment, for example. So it will probably revert to the way things were before the crime of DUI was defined in part on the basis of blood alcohol concentration.
                          Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                          Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I am dealing with so many f'd up kids and their families because of weed. Kids are more aggressive and could care less about anything when they are addicted to weed. IMHO, this will be the downfall of our society as we know it.
                            Play like a champion, today!

                            Member of Team Green

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              As much as I would like to see casual drug users shot... I would bet heavily that before I retire in 20 some years, most illegal drugs will be made legal, or close to it. It's a losing battle.

                              Weed legalization will not be "the" downfall to society. It's roughly the 134th reason for the down fall to society.

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