Former Riverside officer charged in (3) 211s

[avalon42]

post deleted

[socal2310]

http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/s...7.4681396.html



Maybe those psych tests are not the tell-all after all...

...and he sure does have a pet-peeve with Autozone. Based on his booking photo, those customers really wailed on him.

A true sociopath won't be detected by a standard police psychological evaluation. They know what the normal response to stimuli ought to be, they just can't internalize it. By the same token, a polygraph probably won't catch them because they have no conscience - no stress response to deception, it comes as naturally to them as breathing to you or I.

Ryan

[DAL]

Maybe those psych tests are not the tell-all after all...

A rather foolish remark with respect to someone who had been a police officer for seven years.

[X1X1X1]

He took the psych test. Passed. Then turned out to be a barking mad criminal - I don't think Avalon meant any disrespect toward the hiring process of law enforcement.

It's been said over and over that a poly is one tool in the arsenal of screening applicants, subject to inaccuracies. A psych test is no different; and, if that guy really is a sociopath then the screening process (in this instance) failed.

[avalon42]

He took the psych test. Passed. Then turned out to be a barking mad criminal - I don't think Avalon meant any disrespect toward the hiring process of law enforcement.

It's been said over and over that a poly is one tool in the arsenal of screening applicants, subject to inaccuracies. A psych test is no different; and, if that guy really is a sociopath then the screening process (in this instance) failed.

In my humble opinion, there is too much emphasis on the continued validity of the psyche and polygraph. I believe that the initial screenings are effective in most cases, yet they cannot account for future trauma or other stressors involving the officers personal lives. Cops are people first and foremost.

Take for example that recruit deputy from LASD that tortured and mutilated a man whom he found out his wife was having an affair with. Everyone said he was a normal guy, very nice and everything. Sh*t hits the fan on a personal level and some would snap.

That's all.

[DAL]

I don't see how either of you has any basis for evaluating whether psychological exams (or polygrapher's reports for that matter) are overweighted. Neither of you is a law-enforcement officer, you probably do not know the details of the legally-mandated standards, and you have not participated in the decision whether to hire anyone as a law-enforcement officer. Furthermore, there are variations among agencies in what they look for and what their standards are.

There is no reason to assume that psychological profiles remain constant over several years. Having seen quite a few officers retire because of stress-related disabilities, I am sure that profiles change.

Psychological evaluations are imperfect. Does that mean they should be ignored? If we ignored all tests of any type that are imperfect, we would not bother giving tests.

The only way to ensure that you do not hire someone who turns into a criminal is not to hire anyone.

[avalon42]

I don't see how either of you has any basis for evaluating whether psychological exams (or polygrapher's reports for that matter) are overweighted. Neither of you is a law-enforcement officer, you probably do not know the details of the legally-mandated standards, and you have not participated in the decision whether to hire anyone as a law-enforcement officer. Furthermore, there are variations among agencies in what they look for and what their standards are.

There is no reason to assume that psychological profiles remain constant over several years. Having seen quite a few officers retire because of stress-related disabilities, I am sure that profiles change.

Psychological evaluations are imperfect. Does that mean they should be ignored? If we ignored all tests of any type that are imperfect, we would not bother giving tests.

The only way to ensure that you do not hire someone who turns into a criminal is not to hire anyone.

With all due respect (as I am sure you meet all the criteria of what you outlined above) my statements are entirely my opinion, which is based on personal observation and experience. From an outsider's point of view, it is based on my own personal experience working non-sworn for an agency and what I see/read in media (along with criminology/psychology journals/studies from college). I did state that pre-employment psyche and polygraph I believe are initially effective in most cases.

I also believe that a periodic psychological re-examination is necessary for those working in such a high-stress work environment.

I am sorry if you take offense to my opinion. I appreciate your input in rationalizing the argument based on your expertise.

[Socal-Cop]

You occasionally get re-evaluated by a psych after traumatic incidents

[avalon42]

You occasionally get re-evaluated by a psych after traumatic incidents

Can the department make a mandatory one if they notice "warning signs" from an employee?

[TheInlandEmpire]

I would like to add by saying that drug addiction, particularly to pain killers, can and will cause people of all occupations, races, and life statuses to make dumb desperate bad choices. Cops aren't immune to depression, drug/alcohol abuse, suicide ect..especially after we become one. In Daves case, some of these issues came up after he became a cop, after an injury caused by an accident. I, like all of us who knew Dave, was completely shocked by these robberies, and how far over the deep end he went with his addiction. I'm still in shock because I knew Dave before he went downhill. And, yes, I do feel betrayed by what he did because our department, as well as LE in general, is now taking a beating over this.

[Futurelaw89]

Woww...
If my memory serves me correctly, I think Bully works in that area. Wonder if he has ever crossed paths with him?






Futurelaw

[nobodyjr]

I'm a sworn officer. In my life I've had three polys, 3 psychs, and one CVSA for different agencies (for sworn and non sworn jobs). Passed every one of them. With the exception of the CHP psych- every poly, psych, or cvsa I had was BS. The CHP psych was the real deal. The psych I took for the agency I work for lasted ten minutes. CHP's was about an hour. That was Border division.

[DAL]

I'm a sworn officer. In my life I've had three polys, 3 psychs, and one CVSA for different agencies (for sworn and non sworn jobs). Passed every one of them. With the exception of the CHP psych- every poly, psych, or cvsa I had was BS. The CHP psych was the real deal. The psych I took for the agency I work for lasted ten minutes. CHP's was about an hour. That was Border division.

If you add in the written tests, they can run between one and two hours. I understand that the interviews average about 30 minutes. That is how long my first one ran, but the most recent was 15 minutes.

[nobodyjr]

If you add in the written tests, they can run between one and two hours. I understand that the interviews average about 30 minutes. That is how long my first one ran, but the most recent was 15 minutes.

IIRC it took two written tests for two of the departments and one for another. They took 2-3 hours total. CHP and SDPD both gave those tests early in the process and had the psych oral near the end. If you are a true psychopath then you know that you are supposed to check the "I love my mom" and "I want to live" boxes.

[00001063]

I think this former officer is no more than a thug. Anyone who pulls 211's from convenince stores, 7-11's, auto parts stores, is a plain thug.

Talk about look like a duck, what if it acts like a duck.............

Holly crap, I did not read all the charges, attempted ransom, burglary, 4 counts robbery, assault with a firearm. Dood is a bonefide "G"