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20002 Qustion. Any Traffic guys?

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  • 20002 Qustion. Any Traffic guys?

    Elderly lady sideswipes a chainlink fence (at night). Thinks she brushed up against tree branches. Leaves the scene. She is contacted by police the next morning. Admits she must have hit fence (her front plate was stuck to it), and contacts insurance company and admits fault. Also requests her info forwarded to property owner.

    Is it still 20002? or just an 11-82 w/ prop damge?
    Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
    --Winston Churchill--

    "Si vis pacem, para bellum"

  • #2
    11-82. spirit vs letter of the law.

    Comment


    • #3
      My friend did this one night. Hit the neighbors fence and since it was late at night didn't want to bother them. Next day he was met at work by Santa Monica PD, he explained to them he hit the fence parking and it was late so he waited until the morning to notify the neighbor. PD said neighbor claimed there was no notification/ exchange of info done and arrested him for 20002, charges were later dropped when the neighbor checked his answering machine and there was a message left by my friend and he had already contacted his insurance co and notified them prior to contact with PD.

      I think in your scenario spirit of the law is best, if it was some idiot who was probably drunk when it occurred and bailed to save their butt go with the 20002

      Yes it was my friend, not me, for all you critical o.commers who don't think anyone has a friend they reference on this site. He wasn't DUI either, had just driven back from his brother funeral in Utah and was tired.
      Originally Posted by VegasMetro
      maybe it’s me but I think a six pack and midget porn makes for good times?????

      Comment


      • #4
        If she honestly believed no collision occurred then there was no intent to flee the scene without finding the property owner. While you may have a case using the letter of the law it would never go any further, she has already admitted blame and notified the insurance.....they will pay for the damage.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by mtxpro752 View Post
          My friend did this one night. Hit the neighbors fence and since it was late at night didn't want to bother them. Next day he was met at work by Santa Monica PD, he explained to them he hit the fence parking and it was late so he waited until the morning to notify the neighbor. PD said neighbor claimed there was no notification/ exchange of info done and arrested him for 20002, charges were later dropped when the neighbor checked his answering machine and there was a message left by my friend and he had already contacted his insurance co and notified them prior to contact with PD.
          I question the legality of the arrest. It was a misdemeanor not committed in the presence of the officer, and the arrest was made the day after the offense was committed. I believe that a warrant was required.
          Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
          Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • #6
            The woman may not be guilty of violating CVC § 20002 at all if she was unaware that she had caused any damage. It depends on whether the statute requires an awareness that property damage resulted.

            As a practical matter, there is no realistic possibility that the DA's office would file a complaint.
            Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
            Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

            Comment


            • #7
              Permissible Action: Duty Where Property Damaged

              20002. (a) The driver of any vehicle involved in an accident resulting only in damage to any property, including vehicles, shall immediately stop the vehicle at the nearest location that will not impede traffic or otherwise jeopardize the safety of other motorists. Moving the vehicle in accordance with this subdivision does not affect the question of fault. The driver shall also immediately do either of the following:
              It is pretty difficult to "sideswipe" a fence and leave a license plate at the scene!
              Admits she must have hit fence (her front plate was stuck to it)...
              Her excuse is illogical in context. In all probability, her senses are diminished due to her age and this might be a clue to request a reexamination by DMV. I suppose if she felt a bump, she might have thought it to be a rock when it could have been a child.

              (1) Locate and notify the owner or person in charge of that property of the name and address of the driver and owner of the vehicle involved and, upon locating the driver of any other vehicle involved or the owner or person in charge of any damaged property, upon being requested, present his or her driver's license, and vehicle registration, to the other driver, property owner, or person in charge of that property. The information presented shall include the current residence address of the driver and of the registered owner. If the registered owner of an involved vehicle is present at the scene, he or she shall also, upon request, present his or her driver's license information, if available, or other valid identification to the other involved parties.
              The responsible party failed to do any of these actions.

              (2) Leave in a conspicuous place on the vehicle or other property damaged a written notice giving the name and address of the driver and of the owner of the vehicle involved and a statement of the circumstances thereof and shall without unnecessary delay notify the police department of the city wherein the collision occurred or, if the collision occurred in unincorporated territory, the local headquarters of the Department of the California Highway Patrol.
              Again, a failure to perform as required.

              (b) Any person who parks a vehicle which, prior to the vehicle again being driven, becomes a runaway vehicle and is involved in an accident resulting in damage to any property, attended or unattended, shall comply with the requirements of this section relating to notification and reporting and shall, upon conviction thereof, be liable to the penalties of this section for failure to comply with the requirements.

              (c) Any person failing to comply with all the requirements of this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding six months, or by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.

              Amended Ch. 621, Stats. 1992. Effective January 1, 1993.
              Amended Sec. 1, Ch. 421, Stats. 1999. Effective January 1, 2000.
              Amended Sec. 16, Ch. 825, Stats. 2001. Effective January 1, 2002.
              There is no allowance in the statute that permits calling the next day and identifying oneself as being involved in an accident. We have all worked T/Cs where the offending party in DUI, leaves the scene and when contacted, says "I was gonna call in the morning."

              The incident should be investigated as a property damage hit and run; and, I
              agree that the DA probably would not file a 20002(a) VC charge; but, that does not alleviate the responsible party from complying with the provisions; nor, does it relieve the responding agency from conducting a proper investigation. The victim is the party who owns the fence not the little old lady who made an error and caused the accident.
              Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence!

              [George Washington (1732 - 1799)]

              Comment


              • #8
                Good briefing topic....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Give Her The Chair.........

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'd fill out a priority license re-exam request and get that sent to DMV post haste. She probably is senile and shouldn't be driving.
                    Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. - Ronald Reagan

                    I don't think It'll happen in the US because we don't trust our government. We are a country of skeptics, raised by skeptics, founded by skeptics. - Amaroq

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I had a case where the victim called and she said someone hit her car. Her car was red and her rear bumper had a dent from where it was hit. There was a white truck parked down the block with red paint on the front bumper and a small dent. The two dents matched up perfectly.

                      I tracked down the owner of the truck and he said he thought his tire hit the curb when he was parking and didn't realize he hit anything. He gave me all his insurance info and I gave it to the victim. I just wrote a simple accident report. I was thinking about citing him for cvc 20002(a), but its a misdemeanor not committed in my presence and it just wasn't worth writing a report for DA review to get an arrest warrant. The victim didn't even want a hit and run report, so I guess everyone left happy.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        10-8 NRD. I wouldn't even have done a PDO. X-change info, have a nice day. Our poor DAs are so over loaded with cases. The last thing they need is to have to deal with another over achieving officer (or chippy usually) putting another BS report on their desk for them to send a DA rejection letter on.



                        Letter of the law vs. spirit of the law........
                        Last edited by IE Copper; 08-14-2008, 10:13 PM.
                        "I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." Winston Churchill

                        Liberals are very broadminded: they are always willing to give careful consideration to both sides of the same side.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by IE Copper View Post
                          10-8 NRD. I wouldn't even have done a PDO. X-change info, have a nice day. Our poor DAs are so over loaded with cases. The last thing they need is to have to deal with another over achieving officer (or chippy usually) putting another BS report on their desk for them to send a DA rejection letter on.


                          Letter of the law vs. spirit of the law........
                          Let me address your bit of sarcasm with this note: I was a city police officer for three years before I was a CHP officer. I selected the CHP because of a number of reasons. Among them was the fact that CHP officers are expected to act responsibly and professionally. They are expected to perform with a minimal amount of supervision and make decisions based on their training, education, Departmental policy and personal knowledge. They do not have to call a supervisor every time they want to make a decision - a routine practice in municipal law enforcement. They patrol a vast geographical area and will, without being dispatched, respond to assist any allied agency officer they feel needs assitance.

                          The CHP officers with whom I have had the priviledge of working and supervising do all of the above without fear or favor.

                          They realize that the majority of the population have very little contact with law enforcement officers so, when a citizen is in need of service, they will perform within legal parameters and the spirit of the law to offer that person a satisfactory resolution that makes all parties happy. If that means taking a report, when an incident could easily be kissed off, so be it! They will take the report. It is not the officers' concern to worry about the case load for the local DAs office.

                          There is no call for your irresponsible casting of aspersions towards the CHP and their performance. They have their duties and you have yours! I don't see any posts that make idiotic, unprofessional statements about how other agencies perform their duties and responsibilties.

                          In closing, if your nose gets bent because of what I have to say, then, please refrain from offering irresponsible comments about any agency. All you know about is the agency where you work or have worked.

                          Making those types of comments in a public forum do nothing but enhance the erroneous public belief that agencies do not get along or distrust one-another.
                          Last edited by SgtCHP; 08-15-2008, 01:57 PM.
                          Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence!

                          [George Washington (1732 - 1799)]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SgtCHP View Post
                            Let me address your bit of sarcasm with this note: I was a city police officer for three years before I was a CHP officer. I selected the CHP because of a number of reasons. Among them was the fact that CHP officers are expected to act responsibly and professionally. They are expected to perform with a minimal amount of supervision and make decisions based on their training, education, Departmental policy and personal knowledge. They do not have to call a supervisor every time they want to make a decision - a routine practice in municipal law enforcement. They patrol a vast geographical area and will, without being dispatched, respond to assist any allied agency officer they feel needs assitance.

                            The CHP officers with whom I have had the priviledge of working and supervising do all of the above without fear or favor.

                            They realize that the majority of the population have very little contact with law enforcement officers so, when a citizen is in need of service, they will perform within legal parameters and the spirit of the law to offer that person a satisfactory resolution that makes all parties happy. If that means taking a report, when an incident could easily be kissed off, so be it! They will take the report. It is not the officers' concern to worry about the case load for the local DAs office.

                            There is no call for your irresponsible casting of aspersions towards the CHP and their performance. They have their duties and you have yours! I don't see any posts that make idiotic, unprofessional statements about how other agencies perform their duties and responsibilties.

                            In closing, if your nose gets bent because of what I have to say, then, please refrain from offering irresponsible comments about any agency. All you know about is the agency where you work or have worked.

                            Making those types of comments in a public forum do nothing but enhance the erroneous public belief that agencies do not get along or distrust one-another.

                            Your first paragraph (minus the flowery talk of large patrol areas) could be an over view of my department also.

                            Your comment;"They do not have to call a supervisor every time they want to make a decision - a routine practice in municipal law enforcement." Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is as much a stereotype as the fact that Chippys are all jerks and that they all love to write other cops tickets.

                            I don't think 3 years with Seal Beach PD back in the stone ages gives you the expertise to make that assumption about municipal PDs.

                            Anyway, I still see no reason a report is needed in this situation. 10-8
                            "I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." Winston Churchill

                            Liberals are very broadminded: they are always willing to give careful consideration to both sides of the same side.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by IE Copper View Post

                              I don't think 3 years with Seal Beach PD back in the stone ages gives you the expertise to make that assumption about municipal PDs.
                              Once again you opt for personal attack rather than stick with the issues. My experience with the PD is a basic fact. The fact that I became a police officer "in the stone ages" has nothing to do with my expertise; but, it does lend credence to the fact that I did not start my career by going directly to the CHP. We all start somewhere.

                              I truly had no choice for the year in which I was born, just as you. I suppose you would be critical of the year that I retired because, in all probability, I may well have been retired before you began your career - I don't know. I do know this, you have some issues my friend and you should address them through self evaluation.

                              But, I digress! The issue at hand was the question posed by SoCalSheriff that was addressed to "Any Traffic Guys" That question was addressed by my answer. I qualified it with the law and my opinion. Both of those factors are a basis for my reply and I will stand by them.

                              Now, pray tell, my young friend, how do you qualify as "Any Traffic Guy?" You don't like traffic!

                              This will be my last post to address your attacks - agency or personal. I sincerely pray that your career is fulfilling and you go on without a blemish. Forty years from now, some young officer is going to call you archaic and from the "stone age!" Be safe!
                              Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence!

                              [George Washington (1732 - 1799)]

                              Comment

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