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  • LeadHead
    replied
    I'm a retired police captain from Arkansas and I think yall need to back off !
    This young man is on the mark, what a God send to his department to have a well educated young man thats given up a carrier and money to become a cop. And the BALLS to express his appenion. Yall have made a mountain out of a mole hill ! I shor could of used him. Give the por boy a break he wants to do good and his age shouldnt be a factor either.
    Son I wsh you the best, this can be a very full felling job and you can be a Cheif some day. I no you'll wise up, as you do this service. God Bless you and I would love to watch your back...LeadHead

    p.s. ARK only one time did I shoot in the high 90's congadulation and that RAT that posted your acadmy web site tells me volums about his carickter.
    Hang in there youngman...LeadHead
    Last edited by LeadHead; 04-27-2007, 03:19 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ArkansasFan24
    replied
    Where are people getting this foolish notion that some gory incident is going to make me quit? I was/am a paramedic. I was used to that mess before I started this job. It doesn't bother me. Thanks for your concern though.

    Next, I'm a very good listener. I'm taking it that you're not a good reader, however, because you have also failed to grasp what I was saying in my threads.

    My sergeant feels the same way I do as does everyone else here so there'll be none of that.

    Anything else I should add?


    Originally posted by patrolpartner
    ** Copied from original thread **

    Sorry guys, but I just can't let this thread pass w/o comment.

    First, a little about me so I can weigh in. I am a Lieutentant w/ 14 years at Little Rock PD (550 sworn). (yes, I did work through the "Gangbanging in Little Rock period) I previously worked in Kansas City before here. I have spent my entire time in various Patrol Divisions, both as officer and supervisor. My speciality is Accident Reconstruction and was the first ACTAR-accredited officer in the state. I have taught at police academies aacross the state, including AR Highway Police. My wife just compelted her academy at Camden, so I am familiar with that as well. (The one the instigator of this thread was attending)

    But enough - On to the point. The LRPD Academy is 24 weeks long, 10-12 hour days. (More if you **** me off when I'm teaching. LOL) The AR State Police Academy is also 24 weeks (last time I checked). We are the only two agencies to have our own academy. Everyone else goes through one of three "state" academies. Unfortunately, here is AR, you do have a year to go through the academy. I agree with the other members regarding the safety issues. At LRPD, you don't step foot in a patrol car until after graduation. But, at a lot of the smaller agencies don't have the resources / hiring pool to do that.

    Now that I am warmed up, let share a few of my thoughts. 1. ArkansasFan is way too young to be hired. (I think minnimum age should be 25). People like that are headaches for people like me. 2. I doubt he lasts more than two years in LE. After a few fatal crashes (AI guy in me coming out), a couple of shotgun suicides, and maybe one pucker-factor-10, he'll join the long list of people that thought this job wouold be easy only to find they didn't have the character to do it. Good Riddance, I say. We don't need people with his mindset, you'll only get peole like the bar officer in Chicago. 3. I hope this guy's sergeant shoves a boot up his a** quickly before his attidude gets someone hurt.

    Now that I am done rambling (went through two bewskies along the way), everyone stay safe and keep the black stuff down. Remember, it's not how bad you rough someone up, it's how you write it down.

    Lt. St. P

    PS - ArkansasFan, if you have a problem with my comments, I would be happy to "discuss" these issues with you. Otherwise, I suggest you open you mind, shut your mouth, and listen with both ears.

    Leave a comment:


  • patrolpartner
    replied
    ** Copied from original thread **

    Sorry guys, but I just can't let this thread pass w/o comment.

    First, a little about me so I can weigh in. I am a Lieutentant w/ 14 years at Little Rock PD (550 sworn). (yes, I did work through the "Gangbanging in Little Rock period) I previously worked in Kansas City before here. I have spent my entire time in various Patrol Divisions, both as officer and supervisor. My speciality is Accident Reconstruction and was the first ACTAR-accredited officer in the state. I have taught at police academies aacross the state, including AR Highway Police. My wife just compelted her academy at Camden, so I am familiar with that as well. (The one the instigator of this thread was attending)

    But enough - On to the point. The LRPD Academy is 24 weeks long, 10-12 hour days. (More if you **** me off when I'm teaching. LOL) The AR State Police Academy is also 24 weeks (last time I checked). We are the only two agencies to have our own academy. Everyone else goes through one of three "state" academies. Unfortunately, here is AR, you do have a year to go through the academy. I agree with the other members regarding the safety issues. At LRPD, you don't step foot in a patrol car until after graduation. But, at a lot of the smaller agencies don't have the resources / hiring pool to do that.

    Now that I am warmed up, let share a few of my thoughts. 1. ArkansasFan is way too young to be hired. (I think minnimum age should be 25). People like that are headaches for people like me. 2. I doubt he lasts more than two years in LE. After a few fatal crashes (AI guy in me coming out), a couple of shotgun suicides, and maybe one pucker-factor-10, he'll join the long list of people that thought this job wouold be easy only to find they didn't have the character to do it. Good Riddance, I say. We don't need people with his mindset, you'll only get peole like the bar officer in Chicago. 3. I hope this guy's sergeant shoves a boot up his a** quickly before his attidude gets someone hurt.

    Now that I am done rambling (went through two bewskies along the way), everyone stay safe and keep the black stuff down. Remember, it's not how bad you rough someone up, it's how you write it down.

    Lt. St. P

    PS - ArkansasFan, if you have a problem with my comments, I would be happy to "discuss" these issues with you. Otherwise, I suggest you open you mind, shut your mouth, and listen with both ears.

    Leave a comment:


  • ArkansasFan24
    replied
    First, I never noticed any smiley. Also, I didn't realize you were poking fun because you also replied to my original post on the rookie forum as well as raising an issue here on the state forum.

    Second, it wouldn't have bothered me if you had forwarded it. There was a student in my class, other than me, who made some similar statements on his myspace page about this. The instructors became aware of it, yet what could they do? Nothing. The Constitution gives him that right.

    I'm out of the academy now. I completed it. Like I said, at the end of my last reply, at the end of it all I look back with joy. It wasn't so bad although, yes, the classes were boring.

    I was in the FTO process prior to attending the academy, and my FTO did a wonderful job in getting me to learn fourth and fifth amendment material, criminal code, and criminal procedure. I didn't learn any of it from him lecturing me. Some of it I already knew from life experiences or work back in college, but much of it I did not know. My FTO would simply give me a scenario while we were driving around and let me piece it out by myself. If I didn't know an applicable statute, etc. then I was forced to look it up. If I became mistaken he would throw something into the mix to get me back on track. He would then verify everything I deduced. By the time I went to the academy, I could already recite many criminal laws as well as rules of procedure. Again, let me note here for all of you, I'm NOT bragging. I'm not raising issues about my intelect. I'm simply suggesting that this was a great way to learn many things the academy teaches and should teach better.

    As Dr. Pepper stated, much information is lost in a lecture. Even with that, our lectures were often significantly condensed because others felt there was something better to do like get out early or go lay down. This was condoned by the majority of the instructional staff. I had assumed prior to attending the academy there would be much more scenario-based learning. That's how some of the academies I've seen depicted in documentaries and literature operated. It's a great way to learn. I'd probably use the same concept if I were an insturctor there assuming that the commission would allow it. I'm familiar with problem based learning. It's all the rage now in academia. As far as challenging my instructors, I didn't. I only asked questions when I knew for a fact that their lecture was headed the wrong way. This occurred in the first aid lecture (I am a certified and experienced paramedic), and again during a lecture involving some issues about public schools (I am a certified and experienced teacher).

    I also assumed there would be a lot more training in tactics, etc. There may have been 85 people in class, but some people didn't learn what needed to be learned. That means 85 people are either too many for the class, or the commission needs to re-evaluate the methods used to teach new officers. No, I don't think the boring details are going to save my life. I wish you could sit through 12 weeks of the current academy curriculum. You won't find a lot of material that deals with such things. We spent a lot of time going over sexual assault and domestic violence. I do know that domestic situations can head south quickly. I know, I know. I've seen it, and I'd been to some before I started the academy so I had experience to base their lecture on. I should also note here for the sh-t stirrers that I am not indicating that my experiences with a few domestic calls makes me an expert on the matter.

    At the moment, I need to go check on my lunch. If I think I need to reply more later I will. Good day!

    Leave a comment:


  • DrPePPer
    replied
    ArkansasFan24 why would I not do it? I believe you're what people refer to as a sh-t stirrer.

    If I wanted to be a sh-t stirrer I would have forwarded this myself. It was sarcastic....hence the smiley! Sometimes when we write it’s hard to communicate sarcasm....and I obviously failed. I truly was poking fun, but I wouldn’t have posted that in a public forum if I were in the Academy. Additionally I had a blast at the Academy. Of course back then you could leave at night as long as you were back before class or PT.

    I think ArkansasFan24, you should consider that some of those boring details are quite possibly details they may save your life! I think as a student in the third week of anything, you should be paying attention no matter how mundane you think the material is. I wonder what you are doing to challenge your instructors? Are you asking questions or just sitting there bored? You as a previous teacher have no doubt had a student who was bored by what you were teaching or how you were teaching it. Most police officers in our state teach other officers at some point. What are you going to do then? I would bet with your teaching past you will be tasked to do just that.

    I happen to hate power point and it is not an effective way for me to learn. However there is not much choice when your class is 85 students or more. I will not use it when I teach. My first task as an instructor/facilitator is to learn how my learners learn. I am a bodily-kinesthetic learner (learn by doing) and have a lot of trouble with lectures. On average most people retain approx 10% of the information in a lecture. I also know if I can get my learners involved they will retain approximately 90% of the information. It’s each instructor’s responsibility to make sure their material is presented in a way that their students learn the best. Most of my department now teaches using a method called Problem based learning (PBL). It gets the (rookie, probationer, recruit, etc) more involved in the learning/teaching process. Do a Google search and you will see what I mean.

    Most of what you are going to encounter in the Academy is the basics and that’s all. You'll be required, as you know by now, to take a test at the end of the week. All that test will measure is your ability to memorize information, that’s all tests are good for. They do not measure what you have learned or your ability to apply what you have learned. If you really want to be successful remember these five keys describe, apply, analyze, explain, and evaluate. Try doing that with a traffic or criminal statute. In other words can you do those five things with the statute? I wish I would have learned that 15 years ago when I started. Another poster pointed out self assessment this is also key, be honest with your self or you’re the one who looses.


    Good luck with your learning

    Leave a comment:


  • chaser266
    replied
    Originally posted by ArkansasFan24
    If you consider a man standing at the front of 85 students while reading MS Power Point slides as good training then I'm sorry. It isn't. I was a school teacher in recent time, and I'm familiar with pedagogical strategies. Lecturing is ineffective, and reading to students is ineffective. I can read just as well or better than anyone reading to me. You can too...I hope.
    That's basically how most of the classes at my academy were taught. As a matter of fact, that's a key element of a lot of in-service training. What do you suggest as a more effective method, that still guarantees that state-mandated training material is properly covered?

    Leave a comment:


  • ArkansasFan24
    replied
    Why not direct your questions and comments toward me rather than debating them amongst yourselves?

    I still hold that everything I stated in the original post is accurate. I never claimed to have any vast expertise or intelect, and I never bragged about a firearms score. I only present things as they happen. If you consider a man standing at the front of 85 students while reading MS Power Point slides as good training then I'm sorry. It isn't. I was a school teacher in recent time, and I'm familiar with pedagogical strategies. Lecturing is ineffective, and reading to students is ineffective. I can read just as well or better than anyone reading to me. You can too...I hope.

    Additionally, these classes are very short and lacking in detail. For example, traffic law was completed in less than a day. Granted, I really like the instructor that taught the course. I just assumed prior to attending the academy that much more time would have been spent on learning the law. In whole, I don't think even two weeks out of the entire 12 weeks was devoted to legal studies. (Note, the period of two weeks to which I am referring did not occur as a whole. The classes were scattered.) Many of the courses there are scheduled into four hour blocks of instruction. Often, these blocks of instruction were completed in less than an hour. There were days in which the schedule would list a class as lasting "X" number of hours, and, in actuality, we would spend more time on break simply "killing time" than we did in class.

    Yes, you may quote me all you like. I'm glad you do actually. If you were to see my myspace blogs then you'd really have fun.

    Also, I am not an employee of that academy. The academy is not operated by the agency that I work for. (As an aside, Everyone at the agency I work for, and it's not a small one, feels the same way.) If you read the original post you would also understand that. What's the assumption that you provide indicating that I'm supposed to fear some wrath of the academy for submitting such a post?

    As for having a chip on my shoulder...well, I don't. In fact, nothing about my post indicates that I do. You talk about being "under the impression" that I'm presenting a certain attitude of either negativity, arrogance, or both. I'm under the impression that you only WANT to find fault with my statements. Why? I have no idea. Perhaps because Dr. Pepper had a bad experience with the academy, or perhaps because those submitting replies did not attend this state's academy. I encourage anyone to attend it. In the end, I enjoyed it, and I'd do it all over again. Sadly, you have to be sponsored by a law enforcement agency so you can't simply attend it on your own recognizance. If one could, I would have probably attended it long ago. Just look at the things I got to do that most other people don't get to.

    Why are you wasting time becoming frustrated with my postings? That makes no sense. Do something positive with yourselves.
    Last edited by ArkansasFan24; 04-01-2007, 11:40 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • L-1
    replied
    We all blow off steam from time to time - there's nothing wrong with that. But, If you read his original post, you will see things like:

    *********************

    The first week was totally lame.

    The curriculum, as I was told to be prepared for, was slow and boring. Topics included.. an introduction to the criminal justice system (if you didn't already know it involves police, courts, and corrections then you shouldn't be here LOL).

    ...patrol patterns and techniques (damn this segment was stupid)

    The traffic law was not what I expected although it, too, was easy.

    My captain, FTO, and numerous others told me the academy would be too easy for me. A sergeant said, "with your intelligence you'll want to quit the academy since it's so simplified you'll be bored out of your skull." He was right. It's boring,.....I made a 100% on my first week's test.

    The second week was range shooting. That got really old really fast. I like guns, and I love shooting. Five days worth of shooting, however, was four too many for me. I shot "expert" everyday with my Glock. A few others made expert, but nobody came close to my 98%. That was so cool. It was so surprising to see people that supposedly qualified at their respective departments not even hitting the targets at the academy. After all was said and done I was stoked about all this, but I don't want to shoot again for a while.

    Granted, the way it is mind-numbingly presented to us in class makes it very boring. Lectures, Power Point presentations, and outdated videos in which the music never quite seems to match the scene are not great teaching strategies. They just need to improve their pedagogical skills.

    It could be improved upon in many ways, and if you could work at your own pace I think I'd be, at least, halfway finished with it by now.

    ********************
    At risk of sounding Like Rush Limbaugh, "Words mean things". His comments smack of, "Even though I have no experience in this field, I have nothing to learn here and am better than everyone else."

    Rookies who feel as strongly as he does usually have a lot of difficulty keeping such self assessments to themselves and it will show through to their peers and supervisors. In turn, they usually get bounced on probation early, or at the very least, have a tough road to go down.

    I'm not trying to hammer him. I'm just suggesting a little self tune-up.

    Leave a comment:


  • chaser266
    replied
    Probably not something that I would do, especially if it includes publicly mentioning the name of the agency or academy. However, I think it's important to separate the online world from the real world. If he walks around the academy with a chip on his shoulder, bragging about his firearms score, claiming that the classes are boring, etc... he needs to be taken down a few notches. However, reporting his activity to the academy seems a bit extreme. If you think he's the kind of guy that won't last long -- fine, time will tell -- but screwing the guy over for blowing off some steam online ain't cool, IMO.

    Leave a comment:


  • L-1
    replied
    Originally posted by ArkansasFan24
    Why would I not do it? I believe you're what people refer to as a sh-t stirrer.
    I disagree. The language and tone of your original post suggested that based on your vast expertise, training and intelect, you believe sending you to the academy was major waste of your time. That may not be what you intended to communicate, but that's how it sounded. I susect DrPePPer was merely chiding you for that.

    FWIW, when an academy rookie displays such an openly contemptuously attitude towards their employer, it's usually a sign that they won't make it too far into probation before they get dumped, if only for their attitude.

    If I have misread you then I apologize. But just in case I'm right, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. (G)

    Leave a comment:


  • ArkansasFan24
    replied
    Why would I not do it? I believe you're what people refer to as a sh-t stirrer.
    Last edited by ArkansasFan24; 03-31-2007, 11:23 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • DrPePPer
    started a topic What do you think of this??

    What do you think of this??

    Why anyone would do this while still in the Academy is beyond me. What do you guys think?

    I'm glad he's not at my P.D.

    http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...1&page=1&pp=25

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