Ad JS

Collapse

Leaderboard

Collapse

Leaderboard Tablet

Collapse

Leaderboard Mobile

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

So, how much better trained are you than we are?

Collapse

300x250 Mobile

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • So, how much better trained are you than we are?

    Brothers and Sisters in other places. Many citizens in the US complain that our police are not well trained and that police officers in Europe are much better trained in de-escalation.

    We train in the academy, typically, for around 20 weeks, then go into patrol under a year's FIELD training/probation where we can be dropped if we fail to meet standards.

    What is your training period and a brief description of the content?
    "You're never fully dressed without a smile."

    Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

    Three things I know for sure: (1) No bad deed goes unrewarded, (2) No good deed goes unpunished, and (3) It is entirely possible to push the most devoted, loyal and caring person beyond the point where they no longer give a 5h!t.

  • #2
    Australia has a similar setup to the US: federal government with six states and two self-governing territories. Each of these jurisdictions is covered by a single police force.

    I'm in the second most populous state: Victoria. We currently have about 18 000 police officers. There is only one police academy through which all police officers in this state must pass through. When I was in the academy the course was 20 weeks, after which you went through a two year probationary period before having your appointment confirmed. Our academy training is now about 33 weeks because it involves a few placements at stations for field training.

    I'd imagine the content is similar to US training in many respects: we learn about the law, police procedure, human rights, delivering death messages, preserving evidence and all that stuff.

    Our use of force training (we call it OSTT - Operational Safety Tactics and Training) is fairly extensive. We learn how to use our duty firearm, batons, OC spray, handcuffing and empty handed tactics. We are taught to avoid using force where possible and de-escalating critical incidents. I've seen videos of some police academies in the US (a few state academies and there was an interesting series that followed a whole class of Austin PD recruits through their training) and the style of training is very different.

    Once upon a time our academies were very paramilitary with room inspections, lots of yelling, push ups and PT. You had to salute if you saw a commissioned officer and clean the kitchens by hand. We've moved away from that style to an 'adult learning environment'.

    We certainly don't have recruits put on padded gloves and helmets and fight each other or spend hours in the pushup position with instructors yelling at us. We don't really do any serious training on empty-handed tactics or grappling because the organisation doesn't want injuries at work and the resulting paperwork and lost time. I think that our physical and defensive tactics training could do with some improvements but most of our physical confrontations are effectively resolved with OC spray or wrestling the crook under control.

    We do refresher OSTT training bianually.

    After being sworn in (12th week in the academy) you become what is known as a probationary constable for a two year period. Failing to meet ongoing requirements means you won't get confirmed at the end of the two years and your probationary period will be extended. If you still can't meet the standards you will be dismissed. Any major stuff ups and you can be dismissed though we have fairly extensive industrial protections. My state doesn't have an FTO system, you will be trained by whoever you happen to be rostered on with for the shift.

    In the 1980s there were a number of high profile crimes where police officers were shot at, Police Headquarters was car-bombed and two police officers were murdered in an ambush. During this period training was changed to a more confrontational method with origins in American-style training. More people started getting shot and in the early 1990s police in Victoria shot more people than all the other states combined.

    There was a big media focus about this issue and it caught the government's attention to. In 1995 training was completely overhauled and the organisation's culture changed to 'Safety First' rather than resolving incidents quickly. Since then it has been constantly drilled into us to avoid confrontation, avoid using force and cordoning critical incidents until specialists can arrive. Sounds familiar to what's currently being talked about in the United States doesn't it?

    I don't think it's fair for a lot of these people complaining about policing methods in the US compared to Europe because the operational environment is totally different. I can comfortably walk up to a car I pull over, even at 1am in the morning and know that the chance of getting into a confrontation is extremely low. I know that the chance of being threatened with a firearm is extremely low so I don't need to be totally on edge just because someone reaches into a pocket or waistband. This is not to say I'm complacent but it's certainly a lower risk environment. I always work with a partner.

    I did a ride along with LAPD when I was in the US a few years ago. I found the officers there to be professional and they seemed to be well-trained and equipped.

    With some exceptions related to active shootings (an extremely rare event in Australia) I'm not expected to confront armed offenders. We have a number of specialist units that are trained and equipped to a higher standard than the beat cops who deal with those situations. My job is to cordon and contain until these units arrive.

    TL;DR

    - We only have one police force per state and one academy for each police force (one of these forces has a second campus)
    - Standards, policies and training are consistent across each jurisdiction
    - We have very few criminals that use firearms and we don't have to treat everyone as potentially being armed
    - Training isn't necessarily longer or better than training in the US but it has a different focus when it comes to use of force training

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi-WCgoXZDs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtLWeI7MMHg

    This series is about 10 years old and is a bit cringey but gives an insight into training for NSW Police, our largest police force.

    Comment


    • #3
      Lengthy, informative and well worded reply, Mulgrave, thanks Mate!
      "You're never fully dressed without a smile."

      Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

      Three things I know for sure: (1) No bad deed goes unrewarded, (2) No good deed goes unpunished, and (3) It is entirely possible to push the most devoted, loyal and caring person beyond the point where they no longer give a 5h!t.

      Comment


      • #4
        A very informative post, Mulgrave600.

        http://www.policecareer.vic.gov.au/p...academy-police

        Cheers.
        Last edited by JohnKelly; 06-08-2018, 08:27 AM. Reason: Inserted URL

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Kieth M. View Post
          Lengthy, informative and well worded reply, Mulgrave, thanks Mate!
          I tried to be informative without information overload. If it makes you feel any better we get accused of being paramilitarised and unable to de-escalate properly too.

          Comment


          • #6
            That was a detailed read. Thank you.

            My only concern would be your Field Training. A structured Field Training Program is critical. Maybe even more so than the Academy. There are a couple of different styles, but having a dedicated group of seasoned patrol Officers showing newly graduated Officers how to handle real world scenarios and documenting such on official training forms cannot be underscored.

            semper destravit

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by RGDS View Post
              That was a detailed read. Thank you.

              My only concern would be your Field Training. A structured Field Training Program is critical. Maybe even more so than the Academy. There are a couple of different styles, but having a dedicated group of seasoned patrol Officers showing newly graduated Officers how to handle real world scenarios and documenting such on official training forms cannot be underscored.
              We have a 'mentor' programme where new probationary constables are assigned a more experienced mentor which has elements of the American FTO system. The ongoing assessments of probationary constables is generally done by their sergeants. Prior to having your 'confirmation of appointment' (passing probationary period) you have to show competencies across a range of different skills and go through a 'taking charge' course at the academy for two weeks that makes sure you have the necessary skills to be a confirmed member.

              Without using too much jargon our probationary period is very similar to a structured field training programme. The main difference is that there isn't a single FTO doing the ongoing training. This has advantages in exposing probationary constables to people of different backgrounds and experience but also disadvantages with potential lack of consistency and less focus.

              Our workforce is also pretty junior because of large recruitment drives over the last few years so the busiest workplaces usually have the greatest demand for experienced mentors and the least capacity to provide it.

              Comment


              • #8
                That sounds almost exactly like ours. You are rotated through 3-4 phases of training getting exposed to different shifts and different training officers. A Field Training Sgt supervises the overall experience.
                semper destravit

                Comment


                • #9
                  Initial training varies from force to force over here, but, for my lot, it is presently an eleven week non-residential course, then assignment to patrol duties, where you will have a coach/FTO working with you for ten weeks, after which you are (usually) authorised to independently patrol. You are typically on probation for two years, during which time you will receive additional training and will be working to complete a portfolio demonstrating competence in various Police skills.

                  That's now.

                  When I did it, many moons ago, it was two weeks initial non-residential, fourteen weeks residential (the academy phase) one week non-residential, and then assignment to patrol with a, what we then called and I subsequently served as, "tutor constable". You received a further six weeks of training courses over the remaining two years of your probationary period - making twenty three weeks' training. You were also rotated between specialist divisions for a few weeks (traffic, our equivalent of a drugs squad, detective branch, local policing) where you obviously didn't contribute anything worth a damn, but at least got feel for what colleagues did.

                  No fault of theirs, but I do think the newbies are getting short changed as you can (and did) pack a lot more in if you are doing residential training (the difference in the training length is all down to budgets of course). In the academy phase (with officers from a number of different forces attending regional centres, something they have now done away with) we had to parade and do square bashing (drill), speak to staff in a particular formal fashion, bull (put a high gloss finish on) our boots, do organised PT etc but I wouldn't otherwise describe it as paramilitary per se. The residential training was mainly law, basic Police skills for interacting with the public and unarmed defensive training, though they also chucked in a few things that the newbies don't get the benefit of (anyone who didn't know how to swim was taught, and we all received basic life-guard certification, though I already had this). IT and other self-defence training was done in-house. Police driving courses, incidentally, are not taught as standard - it was a rare probationer (at least when I was new in service) who got trained to drive safely at speed, pursue etc. Public order tactics are also taught separately and for some forces (certainly mine) you specifically have to volunteer to undertake a public order role. I did and it was, hands down, the best training I have received in the Police, so that the first time I was in an actual large scale public order situation, I felt quite comfortable in what I had to do (then again, being repeatedly set on fire and having scaffolding clips thrown at you day after day does wonderfully concentrate the mind).

                  If we were taught "de-escalation" skills during initial training, it certainly wasn't under that name and the first I even remember receiving any such training was perhaps ten years ago when they introduced specific training on interactions with mentally ill members of the public (though frankly the formal training didn't, I think, teach any experienced officers anything they weren't already doing).
                  I'm a little bit waayy, a little bit wooah, a little bit woosh, I'm a geezer.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks, Mate!
                    "You're never fully dressed without a smile."

                    Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

                    Three things I know for sure: (1) No bad deed goes unrewarded, (2) No good deed goes unpunished, and (3) It is entirely possible to push the most devoted, loyal and caring person beyond the point where they no longer give a 5h!t.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I must say that I’m a big fan of the British style driver training. Our driver training is closely based on Roadcraft. From what I understand of American EVOC training it’s all done on the track.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        A lot of Feds do the EVOC training....but every Police department in America uses their own system of driving training. There are over 17,000 local law enforcement departments in the US, so you can imagine the different training standards for different areas and environments.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Regarding deescalation, I wonder how "much" deescalation training is necessary or desirable and how critics are quantifying it. I mean how much instructional material actually exists on deescalation training before it becomes repetitive? I received deescalation training in the academy in addition to mental health training. I'm not exactly sure how many hours of deescalation training, but I remember mental health was a full 40 hours and of course deescalation is always revisited during scenario based training.
                          But I think a lot of people are under the illusion that all conflicts can be deescalated. If this is so, then explain to me why someone with a MD and PhD would call police when one of their patients gets violent. I can't count how many times I've been called to a psychiatric hospital because a patient is violent. People with advanced degrees in psychology who work with mental health patients their entire work day are unable to deescalate these people. Deescalation should be taught, but officers must be even better trained for when deescalation doesn't work.
                          I've also always wondered why people expect cops to be in good physical shape yet believe cops should be able to accomplish everything without the use of force. Why? Why should there be a fitness standard if we can simply deescalate all problems?
                          The bottom line is things are different wherever you go. My department may have a higher number of use of force incidents than another department simply because we count different things as use of force. For instance, if a prisoner exhibits passive resistance by going limp and we simply carry them to the car, THAT is considered a use of force at my department.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by allen_gamble View Post
                            Regarding deescalation, I wonder how "much" deescalation training is necessary or desirable and how critics are quantifying it. I mean how much instructional material actually exists on deescalation training before it becomes repetitive? I received deescalation training in the academy in addition to mental health training. I'm not exactly sure how many hours of deescalation training, but I remember mental health was a full 40 hours and of course deescalation is always revisited during scenario based training.
                            But I think a lot of people are under the illusion that all conflicts can be deescalated. If this is so, then explain to me why someone with a MD and PhD would call police when one of their patients gets violent. I can't count how many times I've been called to a psychiatric hospital because a patient is violent. People with advanced degrees in psychology who work with mental health patients their entire work day are unable to deescalate these people. Deescalation should be taught, but officers must be even better trained for when deescalation doesn't work.
                            I've also always wondered why people expect cops to be in good physical shape yet believe cops should be able to accomplish everything without the use of force. Why? Why should there be a fitness standard if we can simply deescalate all problems?
                            The bottom line is things are different wherever you go. My department may have a higher number of use of force incidents than another department simply because we count different things as use of force. For instance, if a prisoner exhibits passive resistance by going limp and we simply carry them to the car, THAT is considered a use of force at my department.
                            Good points.
                            "You're never fully dressed without a smile."

                            Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

                            Three things I know for sure: (1) No bad deed goes unrewarded, (2) No good deed goes unpunished, and (3) It is entirely possible to push the most devoted, loyal and caring person beyond the point where they no longer give a 5h!t.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by allen_gamble View Post
                              But I think a lot of people are under the illusion that all conflicts can be deescalated. If this is so, then explain to me why someone with a MD and PhD would call police when one of their patients gets violent. I can't count how many times I've been called to a psychiatric hospital because a patient is violent. People with advanced degrees in psychology who work with mental health patients their entire work day are unable to deescalate these people.
                              This situation used to really irritate me too. We'd get calls from mental health facilities insisting we arrest someone who was suffering a mental health crisis and who had hit someone or smashed a window. I don't know what they imagine we are going to do with them - a cell in a Police Station isn't going go make them better and a prosecution is never going anywhere as they are quite literally not in their right mind. The facility on the other hand has options we don't - it's not as though we can give them a shot of thorazine. I've had good friends who were former MH nurses and their take is that new entrants just don't seem to get that when talking won't work, it may unfortunately be part of the job to get hands on for the protection of everyone concerned.

                              Basically it's just more buck passing, with the Police yet again finding themselves in the position of having no-one else to pass the parcel to when the music stops.
                              I'm a little bit waayy, a little bit wooah, a little bit woosh, I'm a geezer.

                              Comment

                              MR300x250 Tablet

                              Collapse

                              What's Going On

                              Collapse

                              There are currently 9682 users online. 371 members and 9311 guests.

                              Most users ever online was 19,482 at 12:44 PM on 09-29-2011.

                              Welcome Ad

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X