Police Amalgamations.

[Sgt Lobster]

Looks like we are going to get police force amalgamations in England & Wales whether we like it or not. The last big shake up occurred in 1974. Not sure it will improve police efficiency but it will definately cost the tax payers plenty of money.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4252766.stm

Lobster.

[st13]

To be quite honest, nothing, this joke of a goverment does suprises me anymore. Lets face it. Labour goverment = Anti Police. They have done nothing but dismantle and discredit the police since they came to power. And the worst part of it, is that senior Police officers have gone along with it.

[Cockney Corner.]

I dunno, I think it's a good idea. We need a bit of economy of scale. Nor do I believe the public gives a monkey's who Polices them, so long as they get the job done.

[StephWhit]

i just stopped in to see what "amalgamations" meant.

[Bobbycop]

North Wales Police have a good point though. Why amalgamate with South Wales Police when they have very little dealings with them?
All the transport and road links are with NW England.
If there are going to be changes there should be a full debate on it involving all members of the forces involved.Not decided by someone in an office in Whitehall.

[PeteBroccolo]

We have a version of that going on here in Saskatchewan with the RCMP - we USED to have several stand-alone Detachments where only 1 (a Corporal) or 2 (a Corporal and a Constable) members were stationed. Most of those were amalgamated into the next nearest larger Detachment, and either became "Community Detachments", where 1 or 2 members (Constables only) were still required to live in that town, or have been closed completely and the members from the larger Detachment extend their area, and patrols, to cover the former area as well.

The RCMP took over many Provincial Police Services back in the 1920s to 1950s, resulting in my Force being the Provincial Police Service for all Canadian Provinces except Ontario (which has the OPP) and Quebec (Surete du Quebec).

In the Provinces where the RCMP is the Provincial Police Service, we have also taken over the policing of many villages, towns and cities that used to have their own stand-alone Municipal Police Service. In the case of Weyburn, where I am posted now, the RCMP was the Municipal Police Service from 1940 to 1957, when the city formed the Weyburn Police Service, which has 19 full police members and several support/clerical staff.

[Sgt Lobster]

The Home Office is looking at a minimum size of four thousand officers for these new forces. As things stand, only six out of the existing forty three forces in England & Wales exceed this figure, which means there's going to be some pretty big changes. We are also getting what is described as a 'British FBI' next April, the Serious Organised Crime Agency or SOCA. UK policing is undergoing unprecedented reforms not all of which are for the better


Lobster.

[st13]

You know its not going to be good when the changes originate from politicians. They ultimately mean nothing but huge cash savings and corner cutting. Its about time senior police offiers/ACPO grew a set of balls and had a spine inserted. They really need to start saying no to central goverment.

The whole foundaion of British policing is built upon policing by consent and being completely independant from the goverment of the day. We have definetly lost one and 95% of the way from loosing the other. The question some days is which is which.

I`m lucky in some respect as our force numbers 8,000 +, so I won`t really be affected by this lastest screw up. But really feel for those that are. Don`t you think its a bit contradictory that we are told we need to get back to basic community policing, whilst moving towards super size police forces?

[Sgt Lobster]

I`m lucky in some respect as our force numbers 8,000 +, so I won`t really be affected by this lastest screw up. But really feel for those that are. Don`t you think its a bit contradictory that we are told we need to get back to basic community policing, whilst moving towards super size police forces?

Has GMP moved onto neighbourhood policing yet?

My understanding is that community policing will be provided at Basic Command Unit/BCU level by neighbourhood policing teams made up of police officers, community support officers, special constables & volunteers working in conjunction with our statutory and non-statutory partners

In addition to neighbourhood policing, the force will need to be large enough to meet the requirements of the Civil Contigencies Act & basically be big enough to deal in house to deal with everything else fate and the Government throws at us such as national crime & incident recording.

This little marvel tells us some of what's in store:

Closing The Gap - A Review Of The 'Fitness For Purpose' Of The Current Structure Of Policing In England & Wales.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/hmic/closinggap.pdf

Lobster.

[st13]

To be honest I think GMP has lost the plot and nobody really knows what their doing anymore. There has been so many changes in so little time.

What we seem to have now is section split into two distinct groups.

Response teams who deal with the immeadite jobs grade1 & 2 ( I think ) and any prisoners that don`t need protracted enquires. This is made up of the more experienced officers (18 months + ?).

Then we have a Area Patrol Team. They are the unlucky ones who pick up all the dross that the Response teams don`t, won`t or can`t to deal with. this is made up of very inexperienced officers due to the fact that they have no need to hold a driving authority. As you can imagine this does the probationers a massive injustice in terms of gaining experience. As they don`t attend immeadiate response jobs, i.e public order, shop lifters, theives on etc.

The response teams and area teams don`t work the same shifts which then produces another problem. Manpower or lack there of. There are now less officers to deal with the same amount of response jobs with prisoners. So once they lock up theres less people to fill the gap. And less vehicles available to pick up prisoners. It is now not unusual to wait over an hour just for a divisional van to reach the scene to transport a prisoner to the nearest police station. ( And then your lucky if theres a cell available. But thats for another time.)

And area won`t attend as its not in their remit plus they can`t drive police vehicles.

Ahh but we have CSO`s to fill the gap. No we don`t. Its been risk accessed that they shouldn`t work in areas were conflict is likely. So South Manchester is out of the question. Bah.

I didn`t read the report you gave a link to but quickly scanned the appendices. This summed up the whole reason for change.


Item I - Summary of potential costs and savings associated with
Merging police forces

Item J

[Sgt Lobster]

st13,

Sounds worse than our lot

We seem to have a lot of GMP transferees of late, most seem to prefer it here, but the odd one has gone back, perhaps the grass isn't always greener?

I've just got my date for my Long Service & Good Conduct Medal presentation so I've slightly less than you to do.

Lobster.

[Cockney Corner.]

I'll bet this whole Response vs Area patrol leads to a lot of buck passing. We have something similar with an Area car but that's a little more sensible - there are only three Area cars per BCU and basically it's a faster car with more kit driven by more experienced officers. I can't believe your probationers don't get to pick up shoplifters - round my way, they tend to get left for probationers, unless they act up.

We have the same problem with cell space though. The powers that be assure us that they have looked at the problem and overall we only have 60% occcupany over a week or something. Which is great if you want to lodge someone at 1100 on a Tuesday but not so good on a Friday or a Saturday, when we fill every cell in the force.

[st13]

Yeh, according to my mate whose a Sgt it would seem that the jobs are cherry picked before they get to the APT`s. Starting with the response teams, then the various squads.

Which there seem to be a lot of Robbery,burglary which curiously enough only work Monday to Saturday 0800-2100 on a weekday and 0900-1700 on a weekend.

So once the job has arrived at the APT you know its a proper ball of clag because nobody else wants it.

With regards transferees. The situation has become that bad that they no longer show them on force orders. There are that many leaving or transfering. The figures banded around at the moment are frightening. Less than 60% completeing their probation and 50-60 experienced officers a month throwing their hand in. I really don`t know how long the force can sustain this or how long force command can ignore it.

But as long as my mortgage gets payed who cares, nobody by the looks of it.

[Sgt Lobster]

We've been told the following & that we will be looking at 12 - 18 months for implementation:

All options remain open, but four of those options do seem to be favoured at
this time:
Lancashire/Cumbria with Merseyside/Cheshire and GMP on it's own.
Lancashire/Cumbria/Merseyside with GMP/Cheshire
Lancashire/Cumbria/Cheshire/Merseyside with GMP on its own
A regional force incorporating all five Forces

Bearing in mind what ever force(s) they come up with will have to have at least 4000 officers I'm not sure what other options there can be?

There are 9 English Regions: East Midlands; East of England; London; South East; North East; North West; South West; West Midlands & Yorkshire & Humber together with Wales this would give the Home Office 10 huge all purpose forces. It would be pretty easy for a Home Secretary to keep such a small number of chiefs in their place & towing the line. The pieces are dropping into place more and more central control, SOCA and now strategic forces.


Lobster.

[st13]

I see no good coming from this at all. I see NCIS are advertising for motorcyclists, may be a good time to jump ship. I thought we were looking at 7 - 10 years for change.