UK Police Forces Face Major Budget Cuts

[JohnKelly]

The report is laced with some telling 'Buzz Words', such as 'A Radical Service Redesign', 'Such A Reduction Would Be A Huge Change In Police Numbers', 'We Are Resolving Some Issues To The Satisfaction Of Callers Without Deploying An Officer To The Scene' and on it goes.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31771456

I'm wondering how far these cuts can go without someone saying 'Stop!' or perhaps the cuts are justified and the government of the day is simply reducing the police bureaucracy into a lean and mean police force(s)?

[CCCSD]

Didn't this happen during the mid 90's?

[JohnKelly]

Didn't this happen during the mid 90's?

Not sure, but it is certainly happening now. I'm surprised England hasn't gone the same way as Scotland and combine all the Police Forces into one single force.

http://www.police.uk/forces/

[Cockney Corner.]

I'm surprised England hasn't gone the same way as Scotland and combine all the Police Forces into one single force.

Personally, I think it would be a great idea, partly because of the money that would saved through economies of scale (and we'll just here pretend that we would be allowed to keep the savings and plough them back into front-line policing), partly because it would be nice to have instant access to England-wide intelligence and partly because I am so sick of the squabbles between forces about who is picking up an investigation. Is it going to happen? Not in the near future I suggest. The Blair administration had a go at amalgamating the present 43 forces ten years ago but didn't get very far with it. No main political party is advocating an "English Police Service" at the moment as far as I know. The Scottish amalgamation (the oddly named "Police Scotland") was able to go ahead relatively easily because of the numbers involved and the fact that the majority were already in one force, Strathclyde, anyway. Most forces have agreed to share resources with neighbouring forces to save money but this is a long way from amalgamating.

So why don't we? Well, the usual argument that is trotted out is that local forces reflect local needs. I don't personally buy this. I have lived all over England and and as best I can tell, everyone wants pretty much the same sorts of things from the Police i.e. stop naughty men doing naughty things and turn up pretty damn quick if you call. A more believable explanation comes from the fact that each force has its own Chief Constable (or Commissioner if you're in London). Each also has a "Police and Crime Commissioner", an elected post with political over-sight, which was introduced fairly recently despite the fact that no-one really gave a damn about the idea (15% turnout and many that did, did so just to deliberately spoil their ballot papers). An English Police Service obviously means one Chief and presumably one political over-seer. Now if you've spent literally thirty years fighting your way up the ranks to become the king (or queen of course) of your own little kingdom (or fighting for the party nomination in the case of the politicians) do you think you're going to allow someone to take your fiefdom away. Nah, don't think so. Then again, we have a Home Secretary (the politician ultimately responsible for policing) in the person of Theresa May, who has made her hatred of Police officers so clear that it is amazing that she is not physically sick when she has to meet us, so all bets are presently off in the terms of the future of the Police in this green and pleasant land.

[Langford PR]

I think Cockney is right and each local fiefdom would be hard to give up C-n-C to another....

What I don't get is why your government is cutting law enforcement and military to such a dangerous point in such a dangerous world while your welfare state is pumping out coin to every beggar with a hand out in your green and pleasant land.

[CCCSD]

Shut up Jizzmo!

[CCCSD]

I'm not your "bro", you are just asking more stupid questions and causing endless annoyance. So go back to Oz and stay there!

[JohnKelly]

cockney corner when are cops in the uk going to have guns?

gizmo1, you are really becoming a pest within this International Law Enforcement Forum and have already caused two topics to be closed by the Moderators as a result of your inane and immature comments. This current topic is about UK Police Forces facing major budget cuts and you have submitted a question which has really nothing to do with the topic being discussed.

The International Law Enforcement Forum is not the place for you and instead I suggest that you post such questions in the Ask A Cop Forum.

The International Law Enforcement Forum was launched at my request many years ago and was intended to encourage discussion and contact between law enforcement officers from all parts of the world. Based on your previous posts, it is plainly obvious that you would have nothing to contribute to this forum on international law enforcement matters.

If you have a question on police matters go to the Ask A Cop Forum - Please do not post any further messages in the International Law Enforcement Forum.

If you continue to cause disruption I shall report you to the Moderators, you will be deemed to be a serial pest and banned from Officer.com.

[CCCSD]

You would do better to just go away...

[Yeahduffman]

I agree with Cockney. Each force wastes so much money in this day and age that with the budget cuts, our safety is affected (my force for example is wasting 500K on relocating the Police and Crime Commissioner to our police HQ, despite him not taking up the offer originally when the position was created). A national force would make more sense in the interests of saving money. Perhaps the PCC for the country's police force would be more accountable and be worth the 100k+ they are earning.

[Sleuth]

The issue with a 'Single National Force' becomes the problem I had as a U.S. Federal Agent.
People who had never worked in the field making decisions for the workers.

Example: I was working in the desert, Southwest of Tucson, AZ. We requested cars with cloth seats (ever sit on a vinyl seat that has been sitting in the sun for 8 hours in 110 (F) heat?) and vinyl floor mats. Of course, we got vinyl seats and carpeted floors, which could not stand up to the sand and mud.

EX #2: Working in the desert, we (non-uniform investigators) wore boots, jeans, and polo shirts. Some genius in DC ordered us to wear suite & ties, because he 'though they looked nice'.

I could go on, and on......
There was clearly a disconnect between the real world and HQ.
We all know there is no oxygen inside the Beltway around Washington, DC. Is London any different?

[Cockney Corner.]

The issue with a 'Single National Force' becomes the problem I had as a U.S. Federal Agent. People who had never worked in the field making decisions for the workers.[...]There was clearly a disconnect between the real world and HQ.[...]Is London any different?

Well, the first point was less of a concern in the past than it is now. Everyone started in uniform, in Patrol and at the lowest rank. You may not have stayed there for very long but at least you had some experience of dealing with the, erm, more challenging members of society. Now you (or at least a select few) can proceed straight to senior rank without passing Go but certainly not without collecting 200 pounds. We also had one Tom Winsor appointed as Her Majesty's Inspector of Constabulary, the first ever from outside the Police (normally, HMIC's are the former Chief officers of the largest forces). So we now have a person whose role is tell the Police officers how they can be better be Police who has not served one day as a Police officer. Apparently he felt a little left out, so they had to give him a special Police uniform with lots of gold braid. He looks smashing in it.

Sorry, where was I? Oh yeah, disconnect. Well, there isn't a great deal of connect between our HQ and area as it stands so I don't imagine scaling up will make that difference. However, there is something of a perception that Londoners tend to be somewhat disengaged from what is going on in the rest of the country (a recent survey, which was perhaps not completely serious in tone, found 1 in 5 Londoners favoured independence). However, on the plus side, at least the climate across England and Wales isn't that different (except that it rains more in Manchester) so at least we won't be all ordered to turn out in shorts or fur hats.

[JohnKelly]

.........We also had one Tom Winsor appointed as Her Majesty's Inspector of Constabulary, the first ever from outside the Police (normally, HMIC's are the former Chief officers of the largest forces). So we now have a person whose role is tell the Police officers how they can be better be Police who has not served one day as a Police officer. Apparently he felt a little left out, so they had to give him a special Police uniform with lots of gold braid. He looks smashing in it.............................................

Interesting to read some of the comments in the following publication,

http://blog.old-and-bold.info/?p=21941