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  • Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP)...the ultimate threat

    All emergency responders need to become familiar and knowledgable about a term for a phenomena that can spell the end of our country: electromagnetic pulse.

    Today, there are fifteen national planning scenarios that cover everything from flooding, earthquake, etc. None of them cover the single greatest existential threat that modern humanity, let alone America, now faces...electromagnetic pulse (EMP).

    It can happen from the sun sending an X-class coronal-mass ejection (CME) or it can happen from an enemy blasting a single nuclear warhead several kilometers above the atmosphere. The result of the EMP waves is the total distruction of the electrical grid. That means no electricity for our modern society....no fuel, no food, no water, no sewer, no medical services, no communications, etc etc. This situation would take months to years to fix causing massive numbers of our population to die from sickness, disease, starvation, etc etc. The EMP Commission estimated between 60-90% of the U.S. population could become casualties in a worst case scenario.

    The presidential EMP Commission completed its report and testified before congress about this threat in 2009 and yet the nation's grid is still not protected do to federal inaction. I've joined the Task Force for National and Homeland Security, Secure the Grid Coalition and am working here in Colorado to get legislation to start protecting part of the grid in Colorado. Other states like Maine, Kentucky, Texas and others are starting to do the same.

    On April 16, 2013 a PE&G Metcalf electrical substation in California was attacked by (still unknown) gunmen. Luckily, the substation didn't go down because it would've caused electricty in CA to be out possibly for days or weeks. It is highly suspected that this was a 'dress rehearsal' for other attacks here on the homeland. Well, terrorists have finally succeeded in using this type of attack to take down a entire counties electrical grid.....June 9th AQAP took down Yemen's electrical grid by attacking just one transmission hub.

    As first responders I very strongly advise you get thoroughly educated on the topic and I request that if you learn of anything regarding the topic to bring it here for everyone to learn from.


    Article on the Metcalf attack....
    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...941621778.html

    EMP Commission....
    http://www.empcommission.org/

    The Yemen attack....
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ar...2#.U6iUPPldXuI

    http://www.longwarjournal.org/threat...ite-Wide%29%29
    Last edited by Langford PR; 06-24-2014, 10:52 AM. Reason: bad finger
    Harry S. Truman, (1884-1972)
    “Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.”

    Capt. E.J. Land USMC,
    “Just remember – life is hard. But it’s one hell of a lot harder if you’re stupid.

    George Washington, (1732-1799)
    "I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man."

    Originally posted by Country_Jim
    ... Thus far, I am rooting for the zombies.

  • #2
    A well placed EMP (or a large CME) will send us back to the early 1800s in a heartbeat......and if its big enough, it will also destroy the capability to even repair and rebuild at all.

    Even in a 'smaller' case scenario, it will be time to GTFO of any large population center ASAP....
    The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

    "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

    "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

    Comment


    • #3
      LA DEP, did the Metcalf incident make the rounds in CA LE? The difference in the details between it and the Yemen attack was that they used RPG's instead of just bullets.
      Harry S. Truman, (1884-1972)
      “Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.”

      Capt. E.J. Land USMC,
      “Just remember – life is hard. But it’s one hell of a lot harder if you’re stupid.

      George Washington, (1732-1799)
      "I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man."

      Originally posted by Country_Jim
      ... Thus far, I am rooting for the zombies.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by LA DEP View Post
        A well placed EMP (or a large CME) will send us back to the early 1800s in a heartbeat......and if its big enough, it will also destroy the capability to even repair and rebuild at all.

        Even in a 'smaller' case scenario, it will be time to GTFO of any large population center ASAP....
        Yes, sir. Educating the loved ones and having an existing plan of action is a MUST.
        Harry S. Truman, (1884-1972)
        “Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.”

        Capt. E.J. Land USMC,
        “Just remember – life is hard. But it’s one hell of a lot harder if you’re stupid.

        George Washington, (1732-1799)
        "I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man."

        Originally posted by Country_Jim
        ... Thus far, I am rooting for the zombies.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Langford PR View Post
          LA DEP, did the Metcalf incident make the rounds in CA LE? The difference in the details between it and the Yemen attack was that they used RPG's instead of just bullets.
          Good question....I remember reading about it, but I don't remember if it was info from JRIIC ect or not....
          The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

          "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

          "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

          Comment


          • #6
            Langford. The Metcalf was my agency. PM me as there was a lot going on and a lot of it doesn't belong on an open forum.

            This country survived just fine without electricity. It will sux but life will go on. And NO Metcalf has not made the rounds.
            semper destravit

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by RGDS View Post
              Langford. The Metcalf was my agency. PM me as there was a lot going on and a lot of it doesn't belong on an open forum.

              This country survived just fine without electricity. It will sux but life will go on. And NO Metcalf has not made the rounds.
              You are dreaming.

              We almost had riots in parts of LA when the welfare card system went down for a few hours......now imangine what WILL happen when not only is there no welfare, but no phones (even cell phones will quit after the towers lose power); no transportation of ANY goods (EMP will fry starter systems on all but pre-1970ish systems); no manufactoring of ANY goods; the list goes on and on and on

              That doesnt even bring up that EVERY nuclear power plant in the area affected will melt down as soon as their regular generators run out of fuel to run them....the generators that are run to keep the cooling systems functioning.

              While not certainly an 'extinction level event' if it is on a local scale; it is certainly a civilization ending event........the vast majority of huminity in this country will burn everything down around them in rage and panic if the SHTF at a level such as this.
              The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

              "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

              "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

              Comment


              • #8
                That just seems like Y2K hype that never materialized.

                I agreed that certain areas of certain places with quickly devolve into "Thunderdome" but the vast majority will just have to embrace the suck and deal with no power. I agree there will be rioting and looting, but not initially.

                When the novelty wears off... Then I agree with you(especially in your AOR)!

                I give it the legendary "3 days". Once supplies start to run low, and if the powers that be haven't figured of a game plan to tell the people... I expect a lot of OT to be coming our way.
                semper destravit

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by LA DEP View Post
                  Good question....I remember reading about it, but I don't remember if it was info from JRIIC ect or not....
                  Originally posted by RGDS View Post
                  Langford. The Metcalf was my agency. PM me as there was a lot going on and a lot of it doesn't belong on an open forum.

                  This country survived just fine without electricity. It will sux but life will go on. And NO Metcalf has not made the rounds.
                  I appreciate the responses.

                  RGDS, I agree wholeheartedly that the details of many things are not for an open forum and I will only discuss things that are public knowledge via media reports or unclassified gummit docs. I will PM you, thanx.

                  Metcalf would only have effected a regional area (much like the Yemen attack) and therefore would not have been a countrywide event. This type of 'situation' would fit within your assessment of us lacking electricity and maybe been bad for awhile and resulted in OT...... but I must very strongly disagree with your assessment of the results of a destroyed electrical grid via EMP/CME.

                  There are some differences on the way High Altitude Nuclear EMP (HEMP) and a natural EMP from a CME event would effect us. For example, a CME event would destroy only the electrical grid and not stand-alone electronics. A HEMP however would not only destroy the grid but would be VERY distructive to solid-state electronics. As LA DEP pointed out this would disable many of the vehicles that are being used by everyone (pretty much everything with an electronic ignition). Here is a snipet of a Discovery Channel show called Furture Weapons episode that ran some years ago.



                  Believe me, I know there is a lot of 'hype' (insert B***5****) regarding EMP on the internet and I'm not here to participate in that.

                  I very HIGHLY recommend that you read the declassified part of the EMP Commission report that was released to the public and available on the link above. The commission spelled out the consequences quite clearly. The consequences of EMP is NOT just a 'wiggin prepper' event or something that will provide any OT at all. It is the end of our nation and the deaths of between 60-90% of our population.

                  Just a little perspective on those estimates from the commissions' report. The entire world population...allied/axis & otherwise... lost an estimated 45-60 million lives during ALL of WWII that were a direct result of that world war and it took 4 1/2 years to accomplish. Now, 60% of the USA's population of roughly 315 million is 189 million people.....and THAT is a best case scenario from the commission.

                  Absorb it or not, man. But it is real.
                  Harry S. Truman, (1884-1972)
                  “Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.”

                  Capt. E.J. Land USMC,
                  “Just remember – life is hard. But it’s one hell of a lot harder if you’re stupid.

                  George Washington, (1732-1799)
                  "I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man."

                  Originally posted by Country_Jim
                  ... Thus far, I am rooting for the zombies.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Here is a link to multiple reports regarding EMP....read only if you want nightmares. I can give you a lot more if you want more research.

                    Federal Regulatory Commission (2010)
                    http://www.empactamerica.org/ferc_Executive_Summary.pdf

                    U.S. War College report 'In the Dark'
                    http://www.empactamerica.org/USAWC_C...n-the-Dark.pdf

                    EMP Commission executive summary
                    http://www.empcommission.org/docs/empc_exec_rpt.pdf
                    Harry S. Truman, (1884-1972)
                    “Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.”

                    Capt. E.J. Land USMC,
                    “Just remember – life is hard. But it’s one hell of a lot harder if you’re stupid.

                    George Washington, (1732-1799)
                    "I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man."

                    Originally posted by Country_Jim
                    ... Thus far, I am rooting for the zombies.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The military assessment was interesting.

                      We really have hollowed out our industrial capabilities.

                      I still have some questions though: if a terror group got a nuke, detonating it over the atmo will not kill in the numbers they want. It would plunge everyone in the area into darkness.

                      Rogue states launching an EMP attack lack the heavy lift to wage an invasion/or to completely incapacitate our military. They know whoever is left would nuke them back to ash pile of history.

                      Just because we lose the big E doesn't mean all the electrical engineers, grid operators and support mechanisms suddenly disappear. I totally get that this event has the capability of altering our society. I just find it hard to believe that all of these people lack the institutional and academic knowledge on top of the innovative creativity to build anew.

                      Maybe it's because I live and work in Silicon Valley and I have heard some crazy stuff that Google and others are working on.

                      Langford, no doubt though this would indeed be very bad and a lot of people would die and society may not return to "normal" but the US will continue and as will most Americans.

                      I am still reading through your links.
                      semper destravit

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RGDS View Post
                        .........................I still have some questions though: if a terror group got a nuke, detonating it over the atmo will not kill in the numbers they want. It would plunge everyone in the area into darkness.
                        I do not prescribe to any theory that 'terrorist' will obtain a functional nuke.

                        Rogue states launching an EMP attack lack the heavy lift to wage an invasion/or to completely incapacitate our military. They know whoever is left would nuke them back to ash pile of history.
                        Knocking the USA off the world stage and irreparably diminishing us to a nonfactor would be the goal, not invasion. Secondly, we can only retaliate if we know who did the attack and there is no guarantee that would be known.

                        Just because we lose the big E doesn't mean all the electrical engineers, grid operators and support mechanisms suddenly disappear. I totally get that this event has the capability of altering our society. I just find it hard to believe that all of these people lack the institutional and academic knowledge on top of the innovative creativity to build anew.

                        Maybe it's because I live and work in Silicon Valley and I have heard some crazy stuff that Google and others are working on.

                        Langford, no doubt though this would indeed be very bad and a lot of people would die and society may not return to "normal" but the US will continue and as will most Americans...
                        .

                        One of my great problems with discussing the results of the EMP threat with you and others over the past couple of several years is that it is all hypothetical. I cannot give you 'proof' that will satisfy because the direct effects of HEMP/CME simply cannot be tested directly....the reason why is the earth is too populated to do anymore space detonation tests (also many test ban treaty's)and the sun determines when it'll hit us with a Carrington Event level CME again.

                        But, there is ample evidence of past occurrences that indicate what will happen. My hope with this thread is just 'one-more-way' I'm trying to spread the word on EMP and educate. I'll post many more links this weekend for anyone interested in researching the matter themselves so the entire topic can be fleshed out.

                        RDGS, I'll give a scenario below and let you work it through on your own and I think you'll come up with answers to your own questions. Okay, here we go....

                        You work in the silicon valley, great let's make that our scenario area. Well, let's say you're working a day shift on July 1st at 1pm (next week). You just cleared a vandalism call in Evergreen and are en route to meet some of your crew for lunch. Your wife is working at a doctor's office in Sunnyvale and your two kids are at your mother-in-law's house in Freemont.

                        At the same time a Qatari flagged container ship is ten miles from the Galveston, TX harbor. That ship has followed all shipping lanes and made several legitimate stops at other ports and therefore has raised no CIA/NSA alarms. Onboard is a 'fake' container that holds a modified SCUD launcher with a Shahaab 3 missile tipped with a 1200kg nuclear warhead. The 'fake' crew of Iranian Quds Force cut the ships engines and deploy the erector launcher from the container and fire the missile (this would take roughly 15 minutes). The nuke explodes 300 miles above central Kansas causing a nationwide EMP. The crew then uses explosives to sink the ship and kill themselves

                        Now, back in the Silicon Valley your cruiser dies and won't start, along with 99% of all vehicles around you. Your packset and car radio won't function nor does your cellphone. Now, you and every other person in the greater San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose area is on foot and oh, btw no military help is coming (oh yeah, and the whole country is in the exact same position).

                        How fast is that scenario going to go seriously bad? How are you going to get to your family? How are any electrical workers going to repair anything? How is anyone going to get food or water? What gummit will be intact to coordinate anything? What is your agency's policy & procedure for handling that situation?

                        Now, multiply your situation with that of 315 million other Americans and explain to me how the nation can survive. And lastly, how would we ever know who did it to us?
                        Last edited by Langford PR; 06-26-2014, 09:04 PM. Reason: bad finger
                        Harry S. Truman, (1884-1972)
                        “Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.”

                        Capt. E.J. Land USMC,
                        “Just remember – life is hard. But it’s one hell of a lot harder if you’re stupid.

                        George Washington, (1732-1799)
                        "I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man."

                        Originally posted by Country_Jim
                        ... Thus far, I am rooting for the zombies.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          That's why I pay taxes bro!

                          But seriously, that is a decent scenario. I would say that the rest of the world (NATO and the UN included) would be forced to act and I don't believe for a minute that Iran (or whoever) would keep their pie holes shut. It would be the fastest game of "not it" the world has ever seen. I pay a lot of money in taxes so our national defense forces won't be disabled by this kind of attack. (So the base Crossfit box is closed-I would hope Missles Command of the USAF and something at the pentagon would still be operational so the O could could smoke someone.) I would expect the NCA to retaliate with whatever weapons we have.

                          For the local aspect-that's a lot of walking and talking. I can't speak for SoCal, but during the 89 quake things didn't descend into chaos with absolute anarchy. It sucked (a lot!) but people are communal creatures. They will band together for the greater good.

                          As far as waiting for the Military. I chuckled at that. Caliofrnia invented emergency management. I would look to Edmund before I ever think about the Feds coming to help.

                          Once night falls, I bet attitudes change and definitely afte the novelty of 1714 wears off some serious problems will begin.
                          semper destravit

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ^^Yep, I hear all that.

                            Calli is the emergency management king and the mother of SWAT as well. I seriously hope it helps you when you need it.

                            Once night falls, I bet attitudes change and definitely afte the novelty of 1714 wears off some serious problems will begin.

                            That IS when reality will set in....Hollywood has never dreamed of what occurs when that happens.

                            That's why I pay taxes bro! ...............I pay a lot of money in taxes so our national defense forces won't be disabled by this kind of attack. (So the base Crossfit box is closed-I would hope Missles Command of the USAF and something at the pentagon would still be operational ...........
                            Oh, you bet the military will have a substantial amount of hardware that will survive. They've known of EMP effects since the 50's & 60's with Starfish Prime and the Russian's Project K tests. EMP was actually a well-known standard first-wave attack plan for USSR. Individual peices of hardware/weapons/equipment are EMP resistant but overall systems like the electrical grid are not. The military is also working on projects like the S.P.I.D.E.R.S. program to set up the capability to have 'microgrids'. at each individual military base to supply 'islands' for society to build up around.....meh, its better than nothing.

                            This stuff really isn't new....what is new is the proliferation of nukes around the globe and that the people capable of such an attack can do so anonymously and do it just to take us out of the picture so they can be free to do as they please.

                            RDGS, here's just for a little something else to think about with the scenario I gave you....LA DEP already brought it up and it's the worst of the worst problem with EMP (in a way its also connected to the reasons why the politicians haven't passed legislation to protect the grid). Its called the Fukushima connection.

                            ALL THE EXPERTS said....oh, no problem with nuclear power plants and earthquakes/tsunami....pffftts, you silly civilian people....we nuclear engineers can build a 'safe' power plant.

                            Here we go....

                            An EMP is caused by either a HEMP or a CME and the grid is destroyed....power goes down and all 140+ nuclear power/research reactors in north america (if their computers still work) begin what is called SCRAM (the procedure to stop on-going reaction in the reactor). The back-up generators start up to run the cooling system (just like Fukishima after the earthquake). When the diesel runs out (48hr to 7days) the battery supply starts up and runs the generators (8-16hrs) and then......BOOM 140+ Fukushima's across north america.......

                            Oh, and if the computer systems are knocked out do the E-1 wave of a HEMP.....? Well, then you have 140+ Chernobyl booms in the first 5-25 minutes. Seriously consider that when you lay in bed tonight.

                            Btw, that is probably why the ruski/sino nuke holder never considered it....on the other hand some mullahs I've heard of would not be deterred for one second.
                            Harry S. Truman, (1884-1972)
                            “Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.”

                            Capt. E.J. Land USMC,
                            “Just remember – life is hard. But it’s one hell of a lot harder if you’re stupid.

                            George Washington, (1732-1799)
                            "I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man."

                            Originally posted by Country_Jim
                            ... Thus far, I am rooting for the zombies.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I live in a nuclear free zone!<----- silly hippies might be on to something!

                              I am glad we can table top this stuff, cuz if it ever happens, I will be gone at work for a long time.
                              semper destravit

                              Comment

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