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Our Response to "Thousands" of Terrorists still in USA?

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  • Our Response to "Thousands" of Terrorists still in USA?

    It's been widely reported that there are thousands of terrorists trained by Bin Laden still in the US right now awaiting their next mission.
    BTW,Did you guys see on your NCIC that never ending list of middle eastern names of people the FBI was desperately attempting to locate? They wanted to be notified immediately as these people may have "info" on terrorist acts planned.

    I think we should be way more aggressive if they have no clue where these people are. I'd start with the student visas from Middle Eastern countries. They are guests here, they are not US citizens. IMO we should make them all re-apply so they can be screened. That is somewhat extreme but necessary when considering the 9/11 atrocities and the fact that it is a virtual certainty to happen again.

    The new anti-terror laws will help- but is it enough? It seems the US is reluctant to do what has to be done at home. Someone else said it best by saying the Constitution is not a suicide pact(I may have not remembered quote exactly- please correct me if so).

    I fully support our brave troops and hope they kick some ***** in Afghanistan. The problem is, how do we deal with the National Security threat INSIDE the country now??? How do we destroy the terrorist army who've already invaded?

    What do you think?

    [ 10-28-2001: Message edited by: BRICKCOP ]
    Disclaimer: The writer does not represent any organization, employer, entity or other individual. The first amendment protected views/commentary/opinions/satire expressed are those only of the writer. In the case of a sarcastic, facetious, nonsensical, stirring-the-pot, controversial or devil's advocate-type post, the views expressed may not even reflect those of the writer.

  • #2
    Round 'em up and head 'em out.

    Comment


    • #3
      A few days ago our local Wal Mart manager filed a police report advising a person who appeared to be from the "Middle East" and spoke broken English attempted to buy 20 gallons of Coleman fuel, fertilizer, and duct tape. He had in his shopping cart 3 gallons of fuel, duct tape and fertilizer.

      When the manager advised this person that he didn't have 17 more gallons of fuel the man became irate and left the store without purchasing the other items. The manager didn’t follow this person out of the store to obtain a vehicle tag number or description of his vehicle. However, a few hours later he filed a police report and three days later the local police forwarded a copy of their report to my office where I am employed as a Border Patrol Agent. The police report stated these were unusual circumstances, however no criminal offense had taken place.

      The police officer failed to realize that although this person had not committed a criminal violation he might have been in violation of immigration law and subject to arrest. Now this person has disappeared into the masses. Immigration arrests keeps these guys locked up and off our streets while we investigate the matter further. Most of the slime balls involved in the 9/11 attacks were in violation of immigration law, and similarly most of the people who are now in custody and believed to be associated with that attack have been arrested for immigration violations.

      1. Public: You need to be more aware of your surrounding and immediately report strange circumstances like this to your local police, FBI AND INS Investigative or Border Patrol offices. Assume this is serious and let law enforcement make the final determination. Don’t assume that by notifying the FBI that the FBI will notify INS and Border Patrol. After 13 years on the job I have yet to be notified by the FBI concerning ANYTHING that would be of interest to immigration enforcement.

      2. Local and State Law Enforcement: Utilize the federal laws to your advantage and immediately notify the INS or Border Patrol while or if you are temporarily detaining a foreign suspect. Aliens who have “green cards” are still aliens subject to deportation if they violate most criminal law. In fact, most aliens you encounter on the streets who show you their green cards are more than likely in possession of fraudulent green cards. Let us determine if they’re valid. In the case I outlined above the person was never being detained, but I routinely get calls from local officers who have released criminal aliens and then notify me after they have released them. This is a good example of why there needs to be a better working relationship and training between federal and state officers. I am in no way implying local police do not want to work with federal LEOs. In my experience it’s the feds that have attitude problems. They need to stop worrying that another agency is going to steal their glory and work together.

      Stay safe

      ANYTHING

      Comment


      • #4
        Last May, several midddle-eastern students attending college in Tulsa were found to have falsified their school records. When the local paper did a follow-up on the students activities, it was found that a group of eight had transferred from a California campus in San Diego, to Tulsa. And had changed names, birth dates and so on.

        It was the Kuwaite consolute in CA that called Tulsa, saying the appropriate student visas were expired. These men had been and still are, attending college using false identification and moving from one state to another...

        This information came out of a minor report of falsified records, months before the WTC attack.

        Where are those men today? How many other such "students" are in class rooms now?

        Jim Burnes

        Comment


        • #5
          "2. Local and State Law Enforcement: Utilize the federal laws to your advantage and immediately notify the INS or Border Patrol while or if you are temporarily detaining a foreign suspect"

          Unless you heard a change recently that I missed, we can't do it. Since we have no jurisdiction in immigration, we can't demand to see someones "papers".

          This was repeated to us when I went through the cross-over to get my US Customs Officers designation. If I remember correctly, it stemmed from a US district court decision about a Colorado case.

          My advise, check with the US attorney in your district FIRST, before employing this tactic.

          Comment


          • #6
            Nite is correct...city/county/state cops cannot detain someone solely for immigration violations.

            About a year ago, a Sergeant at my department had stopped a van carrying 3-4 people. Long story short, it turns out the van's driver had been paid a hefty fee by his passengers to smuggle them into the US.

            As I was working in dispatch that night, I was the one who ended up calling the Border Patrol, all the way in San Diego (I'm in suburban LA). The supervisor I spoke with told me the following:

            1. They would only come out if the persons suspected of violating immigration law were already in custody for other charges. Other than the minor traffic violation, none of the group had violated any non-immigration laws.

            2. If not already in custody on other charges, they would only come out for "large numbers" of undocumented aliens being detained. The small group that we had "was not worth their trouble."

            3. When I asked what charges that we, the local cops, could use to detain them for immigration law violations, that's when the supervisor told me that non-Federal LE had no authority to do that.

            So we had no choice but to let them go

            Comment


            • #7
              You’re correct that you can’t detain someone solely for immigration violations, i.e., an alien failed to notify the INS that he changed his address, he’s not in possession of his “green card” or he overstayed his visa. I’ve never heard of the Colorado case barring state LEOs from doing this, but I have references to court decisions that reaffirm your authority to enforce “criminal” immigration law (if your state authorizes you to enforce federal criminal law, which I believe most states do).

              Immigration law involves criminal violations and administrative violations. If your state authorizes you to enforce federal criminal law then you have the authority to enforce criminal immigration law (the 10th Circuit Court made this ruling and the US Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal of their decision).

              Entering our country illegally is a misdemeanor (Title 8 U.S. Code Section 1325) for a first offense and it’s a felony for a second offense. If an alien is deported from the United States and then reenters or attempts to reenter the U.S. then he has committed a felony (Title 8 U.S. Code Section 1326). I would guess that you couldn’t arrest for a misdemeanor unless committed in your presence or view; however, certainly you can question him to find out if he’s in violation of a federal misdemeanor or a felony.

              I’m not sure why the US Customs would be giving you training concerning immigration law? The cross designation training you referred to is probably more commonly called “Blue Lightening” and would involve Customs authority not INS’. Customs inspectors at ports of entry are cross designated as INS inspectors and vice versa, however the Customs instructor you had was overstepping his boundaries if he was training you in INS law.

              I’m not suggesting you start concentrating on immigration enforcement. I’m suggesting that you inquire a little further into how this person entered our country if you’ve encountered him for a valid “criminal” reason and you don’t have enough to arrest him for a state criminal violation. Specifically if circumstances exist such as I outlined in my previous post. A vehicle full of illegal alien tomato pickers from Mexico stopped for a broken taillight would probably not fit this scenario. I’m talking about criminal aliens and you know whom they are when contacting them in the field.

              All I can say about the Border Patrol in Southern California is they’re more screwed up than you can possibly imagine. The Border Patrol Supervisor that told you this was probably a three-year veteran that should be recycled through the academy. He’s wrong. It’s easy to forget the law when your job consists of being a security guard for the US/Mexico border fence (If you want to see what I mean visit the National Border Patrol Council Local 1613 forum board at delphi.com). I used to work for the Border Patrol in San Ysidro so I can say that.

              You can probably relate this to city patrol officers in larger cities compared to police officers in smaller towns. Just as a police officer in a smaller town deals more with all aspects of the law and investigations, so do Border Patrol agents in smaller towns and more isolated locations. If you’re in a larger city such as L.A., El Paso, or San Diego, call INS investigation, not the Border Patrol. I should have been more specific in my last post.

              Vans full of illegal alien farm workers are not an INS enforcement priority. However, criminal aliens are very much a priority and I urge you to follow through with a complaint to your US Congressional Rep. if Border Patrol or INS agents will not respond. Nothing gets the governments attention faster than a good old Congressional Inquiry.

              If you contact someone in the field that doesn’t speak English it’s an officer’s safety issue that would justify contacting INS enforcement for translation. There are more creative ways to address this issue than asking the guy for his “green card” if your administration is playing the politically correct card (no huevos) and they don’t want you dealing with immigration issues.

              If you want, when I return to work tomorrow, I’ll pass on to you the court case law I referenced above. Of course if your administration doesn't think you should get involved it doesn't matter what the courts say.


              solely

              Comment


              • #8
                Hell I'm green card and I just recently found out that it have expireation date and it expired 3 year ago. How did I get that job i was at 2 year ago? Do the employer even check that stuff?
                Don't trip I just filed paperworks for US Citizenship.

                I also have a American friend who mistakenly flip flopped last 4 digit of SS # for years until a year ago he got the real SS card from his mom and realized his mistake. He still get paid from employer and he can even file tax retrun. He showed me SS# on his pay stub, tax forms and the real SS card yup the numbers different! at least the last 4's are..

                Comment


                • #9
                  "Hell I'm green card and I just recently found out that it have expireation date and it expired 3 year ago. How did I get that job i was at 2 year ago? Do the employer even check that stuff? Don't trip I just filed paperworks for US Citizenship."

                  What the heck are you talking about?? Why would I “Trip” about someone in our country having a “green card”? Having an expired green card is not a deportable offense. I don't care if your green card expired three years ago anymore than I care if your driver's license expired three years ago. Just don't commit any criminal violations with or without an expired green card or drive a vehicle if you have an expired driver’s license. The law still allows you to work with an expired card. However, the INS may issue you a fine when you renew it.

                  The Social Security Card thing???

                  I’m pro reasonable lawful immigration to the U.S. The key words being REASONABLE and LAWFUL.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    "I’m not sure why the US Customs would be giving you training concerning immigration law?"

                    Because the question was asked during training.

                    "The cross designation training you referred to is probably more commonly called “Blue Lightening” and would involve Customs authority not INS’."

                    Thanks. I wondered what I was doing there. Now I know.

                    "however the Customs instructor you had was overstepping his boundaries if he was training you in INS law."

                    Broad statement considering you don't know who did the training, what was said or, as you demonstrated a moment ago, why it was even being addressed.

                    The instructor was the USCS legal counsel for S. Florida. The question was asked by students. It was answer. Would you suggest he simply ignore the question? He didn't over-step anything, he addressed the question.

                    My advice still stands. Consult the US Attorney for your district.

                    "If you contact someone in the field that doesn’t speak English it’s an officer’s safety issue that would justify contacting INS enforcement for translation."

                    Right.Where in the world do you get that sort of service from INS? I put admitted an admitted illegal from Egypt in jail on a domestic charge. He didn't want to go home because he had a warrant for embezzlement there. INS wouldn't even come and get him from the jail. But you can get them to come translate for you?

                    Just a suggestion for you: Know the different situations people are addressing before you start telling them what they're doing wrong.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Niteshift and Sig220Man and all LEOs,

                      Cut and paste the following internet addresses for a news release and court case regarding state/county/city LEO's authority to make arrests for "criminal" immigration violations:
                      http://www.fairus.org/html/07400910.htm (News release)
                      http://www.kscourts.org/ca10/cases/1999/05/98-6325.htm (USA v. ONTONIEL VASQUEZ-ALVAREZ)

                      I realize illegal aliens’ unlawfully entering our country has been a sensitive subject for many law enforcement administrations (and the politically driven INS. The INS Commissioner appointed by Clinton wanted us to refer to them as customers).

                      But then again, I'm not sure why illegal aliens/criminal aliens unlawfully entering our country is taken less seriously by those departments than a person breaking into someone's private property. It's breaking and entering in both cases. And I guarantee illegal aliens suckling our social system is costing you more than if a burglar steals every item from your home.

                      I've heard the special interest groups quote statistics concerning how much more they contribute than they take by paying taxes and it's all B.S. (figures lie and liars figure). Most of these guys work under the table. I have a feeling the events of 9/11 have changed many opinions.

                      Talk to your local prosecutor if you have any questions about your authority to arrest for federal crimes.

                      If anyone is interested let me know and I’ll get you the phone numbers for your local (or nearest) INS Office of Investigations or competent Border Patrol offices.

                      Niteshift: The Border Patrol Agents stationed in Florida should be very knowledgeable concerning INS enforcement. For other LEOs working in any state bordering Mexico (California, Arizona, Texas, New Mexico) you should probably call INS investigations.

                      It’s common that most border patrol agents in those states know very little about INS law. They usually only deal with aliens they see jump the US/Mexico Border. Thus the response a Border Patrol Supervisor gave Sig220Man. There are exceptions to this, but not many. My opinion as a result of formerly working at and being detailed to those border patrol stations located on our southern border.

                      Just my 2 cents…got change.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Those rulings are from 1999. We were instructed in 10/2000 not to do it.

                        Again: Contact your local US ATTORNEY for advice.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Niteshift:

                          Holy Cow what's that all about. I wasn't telling you or anyone else they were doing something wrong. I was making suggestions to address problems with criminal aliens and how state and federal LEOs can work together to get these guys off our (your) streets.

                          I can’t control what the INS does in your area, but in my area I respond to all calls by other LEOs when it involves criminal aliens. There are three agents at my office and we cover 7 counties. Yes, with an area this large we must prioritize our workload, but we take all criminal aliens.

                          Again, I would suggest you call your US Rep and make a complaint (Just a suggestion. I’m not telling you that if you don’t do this you are doing something wrong) It is their job after all. That Egyptian should have been put on the first flight out with a one way ticket home. And he would have been where I work.

                          If you get offended this easily I have a time-share in Playa del Carmen, Mexico that would take some stress out of your life. I’ll make you a good deal. Only twice as much as what they screwed me out of.

                          Here goes with love and respect:

                          "Broad statement considering you don't know who did the training, what was said or, as you demonstrated a moment ago, why it was even being addressed. ...The instructor was the USCS legal counsel for S. Florida. The question was asked by students. It was answer. Would you suggest he simply ignore the question? He didn't over-step anything, he addressed the question."

                          I would suggest to him he consults with INS Counsel before giving an official response. The information I relayed previously (LEO’s authority to make arrests for federal criminal law) is what INS Legal Counsel tells other LE agencies during training. He was still a US Customs Instructor (agent or attorney) and not qualified to be giving advice concerning immigration law. I’m not an attorney, but I have been doing my job for 13 years and deal with these issues daily. I would suggest you contact your local INS District Counsel and not the U.S. Attorney’s Office if you have questions concerning INS law. If you have questions concerning your authority to arrest for federal criminal violations (as a non Fed. LEO) contact your own legal counsel.

                          Take a look at the links I posted and then give me a response.

                          XXXOOO

                          p.s. That's all I have to say about the topic.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            "Those rulings are from 1999. We were instructed in 10/2000 not to do it."

                            You were instructed by a USCS Attorney or your department instructed you not to do it? The case law I gave you was a US Supreme Court Ruling. To my knowledge they're still the supreme law of the land and they didn't reverse their decision.

                            If a Customs Service Attorney gave you info to the contrary, he's wrong. Contact INS Counsel. Not the US Attorney's Office and not US Customs Service Counsel. Would you blindly accept what a US Customs attorney told you concerning traffic infractions or domestic violence cases? My point is it's not Custom's Counsels job to keep abreast of court cases affecting INS law.

                            I’m done. Take care.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I thought Blue Lightening was about getting another cool windbreaker?

                              and a Task Force badge?

                              -Sparky

                              Comment

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