Patrick J. Buchanan; Honorable Exit from Empire

[equinox137]

The Famine in Ukraine is not unique to the world. Famine has been used as a weapon for centuries.

And?

The corporate take over of our food supply here in America is the issue here, and is best illustrated by this YouTube video. Not unlike Ukraine, where grain was collected by Stalin's NKVD thugs, modern-day corporations need not collect it, it'll just be unavailable to the masses.

We should all be asking the question; 'How much of your own food do you produce?'

Where would you go to get food if all the stores were closed?

A surprisingly large number of people in the so-called "developed" world answer "zero" and "I don't know."

I hate to break it to you, Stormy, but that is how food distribution has worked since day one. Even in Colonial America, food was produced by farmers and sold on the market. America's part in that trade was exporting foodstuffs such as grain, wheat, corn, and rum via corporations such as the East India Company.

Of course if was a fact that in Colonial America, most people produced the food that was on their dinner table, however that was at a time when America was 90% agarian. Now that number is the opposite, it's maybe 10% agarian. Most Americans do not have the land acreage available, not to mention the time, to continuously produce their own food.

And to your assertion that today's corporations could create a famine: why would they want to, under any circumstances??? As the left notes with abhorance, corporations exist for one purpose only - to make a profit. Attempting to create a famine by making food unavailable to "the masses" would ruin said corporation, because by making food unavailable, their flow of income would be cut off, which would also result in a drop in their stock price and stockholder anger and/or investor panic.

There's also the fact that the food distribution industry is extremely decentralized, unlike the oil industry. If, say, ConAgra were to attempt to do what you've suggested they are capable of doing, its competitors would be happy to take up the slack and make a mockery of ConAgra's efforts.

If you're depending on Corporate America to make sure your food supply is safe, you may be making a fatal mistake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNezT...gi?read=210454

What does this have to do with the availability of food supply?

[equinox137]

She did visit.

Where is your source for that? I don't know of any references on her life that mention a Ukraine visit.

Consider also that Presidents did not travel around the world at that time nearly as much as they do now.

[JTShooter]

oh good lord...

[Stormy]

The Famine in Ukraine is not unique to the world. Famine has been used as a weapon for centuries.

The corporate take over of our food supply here in America is the issue here, and is best illustrated by this YouTube video. Not unlike Ukraine, where grain was collected by Stalin's NKVD thugs, modern-day corporations need not collect it, it'll just be unavailable to the masses.

We should all be asking the question; 'How much of your own food do you produce?'

Where would you go to get food if all the stores were closed?

A surprisingly large number of people in the so-called "developed" world answer "zero" and "I don't know."

If you're depending on Corporate America to make sure your food supply is safe, you may be making a fatal mistake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNezT...gi?read=210454

[PB3021]

Ah, Stalin. Perhaps the only person in history that Hitler could call a monster.

[Stormy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
Agreed.

Then I would ask; where was the American aid to Ukraine in 1932 -1933 when nearly 10 million Ukrainians starved to death because of a food tax program enforced by Stalin? Eleanor Roosevelt visited Ukraine and saw no signs of starvation. One wonders where was she looking, or, what was she shown?

Err....that was not a "food tax program" enforced by Stalin, it was an artificial famine enforced by Stalin. I don't think any American aid would have been allowed, even if it were sent.

Yes, it was an artifical famine caused by Stalin collecting taxes paid in grain; if you weren't working in a Commune, you owed a certain poundage of grain to the state.

Also, Eleanor Roosevelt never visited the Ukraine. Maybe that's Walter Duranty of the New York Times that you're thinking of.

She did visit. Yes, Duranty wrote about the 'famine that wasn't' in the NY Times.

[equinox137]

Agreed.

Then I would ask; where was the American aid to Ukraine in 1932 -1933 when nearly 10 million Ukrainians starved to death because of a food tax program enforced by Stalin? Eleanor Roosevelt visited Ukraine and saw no signs of starvation. One wonders where was she looking, or, what was she shown?

Err....that was not a "food tax program" enforced by Stalin, it was an artificial famine enforced by Stalin. I don't think any American aid would have been allowed, even if it were sent.

Also, Eleanor Roosevelt never visited the Ukraine. Maybe that's Walter Duranty of the New York Times that you're thinking of.

[equinox137]

In 2002, a Pew Research Center survey of 42 nations found 44 percent of South Koreans, second highest number of any country, holding an unfavorable view of the United States. A Korean survey put the figure at 53 percent, with 80 percent of youth holding a negative view. By 39 percent to 35 percent, South Koreans saw the United States as a greater threat than North Korea.

Can someone explain why we keep 30,000 troops on the DMZ of a nation whose people do not even like us?

IIRC, that same poll cited that South Koreans were also overwhelmingly against us withdrawing from their nation as well...

[JTShooter]

That time frame we were going through a bit of an isolationalist movement, IIRC, so it was hard for us to justify sending food/money. That and the whole "Great Depression" thing kinda hurt our ability to "help" other poor countries...

[Stormy]

Could be along the lines of us giving aid and medical attention to those we were just in a firefight with a few minutes before....

Our "war" with the USSR was with their government. NOT their people. Their people were starving because their government diverted their full attention to combating our growing strength, instead of helping their people (which you have to do in a communist regime)

Agreed.

Then I would ask; where was the American aid to Ukraine in 1932 -1933 when nearly 10 million Ukrainians starved to death because of a food tax program enforced by Stalin? Eleanor Roosevelt visited Ukraine and saw no signs of starvation. One wonders where was she looking, or, what was she shown?

It may just be that the wrongs of the Democratic Roosevelt administration was righted years later under the Republican Eisenhower. I don't know.

[nuthead]

Our "war" with the USSR was with their government. NOT their people. Their people were starving because their government diverted their full attention to combating our growing strength, instead of helping their people (which you have to do in a communist regime)

I was about to say the same thing. Also, our farmers made more grain than we could really use at home. Not selling it would hurt them. Also, not being able to self-sufficiently feed their own citizens and having to buy grain from the evil capitalists dogs had a physiological impact on the Soviets.

[JTShooter]

Could be along the lines of us giving aid and medical attention to those we were just in a firefight with a few minutes before....

Our "war" with the USSR was with their government. NOT their people. Their people were starving because their government diverted their full attention to combating our growing strength, instead of helping their people (which you have to do in a communist regime)

[Stormy]

I watched a group commentary today on cable news. On guest said that our relationship with Europe was that of 100 years of defense, assitance (monetarily and technical) and we 've received nothing but whining for our efforts. I'm not such a believer in isolationism, but I think it's time we priotize who we defend and who give $ to. And speaking of other countries whining and complaining about the US, let's not forget during the height of the cold war we gave (sold) grain to our greatest threat, the USSR. We're such ogres.

[bold highlite mine]

One wonders why the US would subsidize their enemy? Hard to believe we are so altruistic. Then why? Is it possible there was no threat at all, but only a dog & pony show to inflate the military-industrial complex budget? Or, was our motive to soften the 'Bear' with kindness; to show the US a kinder more gentler Nation?

[PB3021]

I watched a group commentary today on cable news. On guest said that our relationship with Europe was that of 100 years of defense, assitance (monetarily and technical) and we 've received nothing but whining for our efforts. I'm not such a believer in isolationism, but I think it's time we priotize who we defend and who give $ to. And speaking of other countries whining and complaining about the US, let's not forget during the height of the cold war we gave (sold) grain to our greatest threat, the USSR. We're such ogres.

[Columbus]

It's not my article. It's current, and it needs attention. Obama is talking about the same topic.

Not attacking Stormy, just laughing at some of the articles you come up with from such scattered sources.