Law abiding citizen.....

[Tinkertoys]

Is anyone else sick of hearing the term? I hear it far too much, and am growing very, very tired of the whole damn I'm a law abiding citizen argument. Well, lots of people aren't if a "law abiding citizen" gets a gun, whats to stop a criminal from getting one (legally, at least). Responses?

-Tink

[tony.o]

Tink, did you stop taking your meds again. Please don't start up again with those anti-gun sounding statements. By the way, I did think the temp suspension from this site, a while back, for you're politically uncorrect post not fair. I did laugh though, I thought it was funny that the most nonconfrontational poster got booted for making an honest statement.

[Mitchell_in_CT]

CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF ILLINOIS (as amended to 1970)

Article I

Sec. 22. Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Your state's legislature seems to like to disregard that section.

I'm really curious if a Supreme Court will hear any arguments on the 2nd ammendment as the 5th circuit and, I think, the 9th and 10th are in conflict as to the nature of that provision in the bill of rights and its application via the 14th ammendment to the Federal Constitution of the United States.

Subject only to police power is usualy a catch phrase for saying that the government has discretion in the excercise of its power, not that the government can blanket ban, i.e., refuse to excercise its discretion.

I do not remember the case, but the LAPD was sued for refusing to issue carry permits and the court did not order them to issue any permits (remove discretion from the police) however they were required to take applications and excercise individual judgement in the granting or refusal of permits to carry weapons.

[Tinkertoys]

A Brown bess musket could fire a .68 caliber lead ball twice a minute and was only accurate to 80-100 yards, when firing at a LARGE formation. An M-16, or a civilian copy of it, can fire 100 plus rounds per minute, accurate to 300 plus yards, with much more force. The constitution is dangerously outdated in this regard, as modern weapons are much more effective than those 220 years ago.

-tink

[Bodie]

Tink please just up your dose tonight !!!!!!!!!

[Tinkertoys]

CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF ILLINOIS (as amended to 1970)

Article I

Sec. 22. Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Your state's legislature seems to like to disregard that section.

I'm really curious if a Supreme Court will hear any arguments on the 2nd ammendment as the 5th circuit and, I think, the 9th and 10th are in conflict as to the nature of that provision in the bill of rights and its application via the 14th ammendment to the Federal Constitution of the United States.

Subject only to police power is usualy a catch phrase for saying that the government has discretion in the excercise of its power, not that the government can blanket ban, i.e., refuse to excercise its discretion.

I do not remember the case, but the LAPD was sued for refusing to issue carry permits and the court did not order them to issue any permits (remove discretion from the police) however they were required to take applications and excercise individual judgement in the granting or refusal of permits to carry weapons.

And here is my response: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

[Mitchell_in_CT]

A Brown bess musket could fire a .68 caliber lead ball twice a minute and was only accurate to 80-100 yards, when firing at a LARGE formation. An M-16, or a civilian copy of it, can fire 100 plus rounds per minute, accurate to 300 plus yards, with much more force. The constitution is dangerously outdated in this regard, as modern weapons are much more effective than those 220 years ago.

-tink

And the framers never anticipated the modern printing press, radio, TV, electronic print media or the internet.

By your logic, the first ammendment only applies to technology in existance at the time of the constitution's writing.

By extention, all the bill of rights is outdated and should be eliminated because the society it was crafted in has changed so much that it no longer fits.

Wouldn't that be nice. No more 4th ammendment, as we have technology to see through walls, no more freedom of the press unless its a hand cranked press, and a host of other rights eliminated.

Eliminated, in your argument, merely by the passage of time.

Yeah, that's a great reason to curtail people's rights.

You are a Law Enforcement Officer in IL, right? That means you took the oath of office as per ARTICLE XIII, SECTION 3.

OATH OR AFFIRMATION OF OFFICE
Each prospective holder of a State office or other State
position created by this Constitution, before taking office,
shall take and subscribe to the following oath or
affirmation:
"I do solemnly swear (affirm) that I will support the
Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of
the State of Illinois, and that I will faithfully discharge
the duties of the office of .... to the best of my ability."
(Source: Illinois Constitution.)

The Constitution of the United States includes the bill of rights...so you feel that you can disgard your oath of office?

Oh, wait...thats merely a State Constitutional provision...so feel free.

You know, the founders did create a mechanisim to change the federal constitution. Go read Article V of the US Constitution and for IL, read ARTICLE XIV, CONSTITUTIONAL REVISION.

You don't have to like the rights the framers wrote into the Federal Constitution or the ones written in your state constitution, but if you took an oath of office, I would have expected you to understand what you were swearing you would support.

But hey...what do I know...I'm merely a good citizen with the gumption to question my betters.

Guess the freedom of speach and freedom of the press should be the next thing to go, eh?

[Mitchell_in_CT]

And here is my response: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

And by the way, that applies only to government censorship, not other people telling you they don't want to hear you.

[frank]

I am going to say this once...There is no law abiding person out there!
If you say yes to any of these things, then you are not law abiding!

1.Have you ever went faster then the speed limit?
2.Did you ever throw anything like cigarette or candy wrappers(gum) out of your car window while driving?
3.Did you ever take a leak while driving and or hunting and did not do it at a gas station or in your own home bathroom?
3.Did you ever spit on the ground and it was not your own yard?
4.Did you ever say I wish he/she was dead?
5.Ever slap a family member or punch someone?
6.Did you ever cheat on a school test?
7.Did you ever skip a class during anytime when you went to school?
8.Did you ever threaten or harass anyone?
9.Did you ever steal or even take someones lunch?
10.Did you ever trespass on private property anywhere at anytime?
11.Did you ever cross the road and not use the crosswalk area?
12.Did you ever pass in a no-zone passing area?
13. Did you ever stick your nose in something that was not your business,especially when your not the authorities? (Yes! I know what they are going to say! )
Don't worry I got the message guy's>>>>>!10-4?

This picture goes on and on and on.......You get the picture right?

Sighing with a DEEP BREATH! once or twice!
Now that I am done with this in good information...I think the evidence says what a person needs to hear. No-one is perfect!
You can only be as close to perfect, the reality is that you hope your not in the area of these guys ....(I am talking about the the police!)when you do the wrong thing,
Because then you will deserve what you get and it's no-one else's fault but your own!
This is dedicated to my friends in the P.D.

Pss...I still am backing our police 100% and still thank out troops all around the world.

[Tinkertoys]

And the framers never anticipated the modern printing press, radio, TV, electronic print media or the internet.

By your logic, the first ammendment only applies to technology in existance at the time of the constitution's writing.

By extention, all the bill of rights is outdated and should be eliminated because the society it was crafted in has changed so much that it no longer fits.

Wouldn't that be nice. No more 4th ammendment, as we have technology to see through walls, no more freedom of the press unless its a hand cranked press, and a host of other rights eliminated.

Eliminated, in your argument, merely by the passage of time.

Yeah, that's a great reason to curtail people's rights.

You are a Law Enforcement Officer in IL, right? That means you took the oath of office as per ARTICLE XIII, SECTION 3.

OATH OR AFFIRMATION OF OFFICE
Each prospective holder of a State office or other State
position created by this Constitution, before taking office,
shall take and subscribe to the following oath or
affirmation:
"I do solemnly swear (affirm) that I will support the
Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of
the State of Illinois, and that I will faithfully discharge
the duties of the office of .... to the best of my ability."
(Source: Illinois Constitution.)

The Constitution of the United States includes the bill of rights...so you feel that you can disgard your oath of office?

Oh, wait...thats merely a State Constitutional provision...so feel free.

You know, the founders did create a mechanisim to change the federal constitution. Go read Article V of the US Constitution and for IL, read ARTICLE XIV, CONSTITUTIONAL REVISION.

You don't have to like the rights the framers wrote into the Federal Constitution or the ones written in your state constitution, but if you took an oath of office, I would have expected you to understand what you were swearing you would support.

But hey...what do I know...I'm merely a good citizen with the gumption to question my betters.

Guess the freedom of speach and freedom of the press should be the next thing to go, eh?

The printing press, radio, TV, and the internet are not designed to kill people. This is the old lunatic argument that cars kill more people than guns, so we should ban cars.

-tink

[Tinkertoys]

And by the way, that applies only to government censorship, not other people telling you they don't want to hear you.

Its more of a smart *** answer that a serious argument.

-tink

[Ghostrider_RSA]

Tinkertoys : The 2nd Amendment refers that the People be armed with firearms that are currently in service with the Military (or meeting those same requirements), not so?

Then this would also automatically infer that this right would keep up with any technological advances thereof.

Here's your sign :

[Tinkertoys]

Tinkertoys : The 2nd Amendment refers that the People be armed with firearms that are currently in service with the Military (or meeting those same requirements), not so?

Then this would also automatically infer that this right would keep up with any technological advances thereof.

Here's your sign :

The probem with your argument is that it gives a militia the right to have weapons, the legal equivalent being the NAtional Guard. Now, a simple English lesson should solve this. A well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people....... Now, if you honestly believe "A well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state" is a complete thought, you need to go back to high school.

-tink

[Ghostrider_RSA]

The US Constitution was written for "THE PEOPLE". Militia comprises of people.

I think the framers knew more about whet THEY drafted than you do, or ever will Tink.

Governments are prone to corruption, greed for power etc, so yes - that is a complete thought and sentence, thank you.

Have a nice, Brady, gun free day!

[Styx]

I am going to say this once...There is no law abiding person out there!
If you say yes to any of these things, then you are not law abiding!

1.Have you ever went faster then the speed limit?
2.Did you ever throw anything like cigarette or candy wrappers(gum) out of your car window while driving?
3.Did you ever take a leak while driving and or hunting and did not do it at a gas station or in your own home bathroom?
3.Did you ever spit on the ground and it was not your own yard?
4.Did you ever say I wish he/she was dead?
5.Ever slap a family member or punch someone?
6.Did you ever cheat on a school test?
7.Did you ever skip a class during anytime when you went to school?
8.Did you ever threaten or harass anyone?
9.Did you ever steal or even take someones lunch?
10.Did you ever trespass on private property anywhere at anytime?
11.Did you ever cross the road and not use the crosswalk area?
12.Did you ever pass in a no-zone passing area?
13. Did you ever stick your nose in something that was not your business,especially when your not the authorities? (Yes! I know what they are going to say! )
Don't worry I got the message guy's>>>>>!10-4?

1. Does 5 over count? Never gotten a speeding ticket, though. A few parking, but they are all paid for.
2.Never thrown anything out of my car window while a passenger or driving; thats disgusting.
3.I only spit in a sink when I brush my teeth or at the detal offfice.
4.I have never wished anyone dead.
5. I kicked an old boyfrend because he was stradling me and had his hands around my neck; I think that was self defense. I did punch him in the face once I was up...that was outof anger.
6. I cheated on a Religion test in 8th grade once.
7. I skipped a class e few times in college...never high school.
8.I have never theratened or harrassed anyone...unless threatening my 3 year old with no dessert counts.
9.I have never stolen anyones lunch
10.I may have trespassed into private property when I was a kid...looking for alleged haunted houses.
11. I jaywalked once and got hit by a car...spent a year in and out of a hospital.....I didnt get a ticket because they cop thought I was dead and then he felt sorry for me once he found a pulse.
12. if the sign says NO passing...I dont.
13. I let authorities deal with stuff...I am too busy.

I guess I am not the law abiding citizen I thought I was.
Thanks for the eye opener.