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  • #16
    [QUOTE=Centurion44]Well, an element to a crime is motive. QUOTE]

    That isn't the case in all states. California requires a union of act and intent, not motive.
    Retired

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    • #17
      Well, my point was this: Every anti-drug arguement I've come across always includes another crime. We already are allowed to poison our bodies with Tobacco, Alcohol, MSG, fatty acids, carbohydrates, and a thousand other things. Why not be allowed to poison our bodies with anything we want?

      Yes, addicts will commit crimes to get their vice. But I've seen tobacco and alcohol drive people to do the same thing, and those are legal. I challenge anyone to tell me exactly why any drug should be completely illegal. I agree substance abuse isn't victimless- however the only victim is the user.

      If drugs were legalized tomorrow would I do them? No. I don't smoke and I rarely drink. My vices are red meat and Mountain Dew. I can't in good conscience tell someone they shouldn't poison their bodies with one substance while I poison mine with another.
      You have no right to not be offended.-Neal Boortz

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Centurion44
        Why not be allowed to poison our bodies with anything we want? Yes, addicts will commit crimes to get their vice. But I've seen tobacco and alcohol drive people to do the same thing, and those are legal. I challenge anyone to tell me exactly why any drug should be completely illegal. I agree substance abuse isn't victimless- however the only victim is the user.
        Why not be allowed to poison our bodies with anything we want?

        Because if our paths cross someday and you're high, and you just happen to have a gun and want my wallet, and you might not have taken drugs in the first place because it's illegal, then I think that's a good reason to keep it illegal.

        If you want to legalize drugs then when is a good age to start? 18? Okay, but what happens when you become a deadbeat and a weight on society? The lifestyle associated with drugs is criminal in most everyway. Why would you want to make that lifestyle even more available, especially to minors? Why, as a society, should we promote lifestyles that are destructive? We don't promote gay marriage because it's destructive (except Mass.) and we don't promote alcohol because it's destructive. You might say, "well alcohol is legal." Yes, but you can take it in small quantities and stay in control. With drugs, you take one hit and you lose all of your abilities to restrain yourself. I think it really boils down to whether you think society should demand more responsibility or less from its citizens.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by savage4presiden
          Why not be allowed to poison our bodies with anything we want?

          Because if our paths cross someday and you're high, and you just happen to have a gun and want my wallet, and you might not have taken drugs in the first place because it's illegal, then I think that's a good reason to keep it illegal.
          *sigh* We seem to be going in circles. Again, you are bringing up another crime. Being under the influence of a drug while commiting the crime isn't a defense. If you made alcohol illegal, we wouldn't have as many DUIs.

          If you want to legalize drugs then when is a good age to start? 18? Okay, but what happens when you become a deadbeat and a weight on society?
          I was thinking as early as 21, or as late as 25, but that's simantics.
          What happens when anyone becomes a weight on soceity. Can you name a crack or heroine addict that isn't a weight on soceity now, but would be if drugs were legalized?

          The lifestyle associated with drugs is criminal in most everyway.
          LOL- Yes, because right now drugs are illegal!

          Why would you want to make that lifestyle even more available, especially to minors?
          Yes, because right now minors can't go out and buy drugs. It's easier right now for a kid to go out a buy a lid of marijuana than it is for them to buy a fifth of vodka. If drugs were regulated like alcohol, I surmise that a fifth of vodka and a lid of pot would be equally difficult (or easy) to get.

          Why, as a society, should we promote lifestyles that are destructive?
          That's a subjective arguement. A lifestyle of junkfood and being a couch potato is destructive as well. Should those activities be outlawed as well?

          We don't promote gay marriage because it's destructive (except Mass.) and we don't promote alcohol because it's destructive.
          Like the old addage: "What mean 'we', kimosabe?"
          You can give me no evidence that gay marriage is destructive. If you'd like to debate that issue, start another thread. As for alcohol, yes, it's destructive, but it's legal.

          You might say, "well alcohol is legal." Yes, but you can take it in small quantities and stay in control. With drugs, you take one hit and you lose all of your abilities to restrain yourself.
          Not true. But I'm not going to argue with you there, because anyone who does drugs or alcohol to excess wants to lose that control, so that's really a poor arguement.

          I think it really boils down to whether you think society should demand more responsibility or less from its citizens.
          Just like with children, how can you teach them responsibility if you show you don't trust them? Again, however, that should not be the government's job. The government's job should be to protect my rights to life, liberty, and property. If I wanted to sit in the privacy of my own home, by myself and shoot up heroine, I should be able to. There is no victim in that single act other than myself. Just like if I smoked, drank, or ate a twinkie right now, the only person I am harming is me.

          Here's a challenge for you: Name one scenario whereby one person doing drugs would harm another- without citing another crime.

          Like I said if all drugs were legalized and regulated by the government, I'm all for stiffer penalties for crimes where the perpetrator was under the influence of a drug.
          Last edited by Centurion44; 07-05-2005, 11:59 PM.
          You have no right to not be offended.-Neal Boortz

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          • #20
            I'll admitt it. It's hard to argue against your position. But what if drugs were legalized? I think we would see a rise in homelessness which would create even more problems for society. Oh well, I guess it's all "survival of the fittest" anyway.

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            • #21
              I believe at first yes, there would be more problems than before. But after tipping a bucket if it's held steady the water evens itself out over time. I believe soceity would be no different.

              I didn't intentionally mean to start any sort of debate (although I do enjoy a friendly debate), I was just trying to get an idea of how many LEOs on this forum agree drugs should be legalized.
              You have no right to not be offended.-Neal Boortz

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Centurion44
                I believe at first yes, there would be more problems than before. But after tipping a bucket if it's held steady the water evens itself out over time. I believe soceity would be no different.

                I didn't intentionally mean to start any sort of debate (although I do enjoy a friendly debate), I was just trying to get an idea of how many LEOs on this forum agree drugs should be legalized.

                I got your back.

                TGY
                Disclaimer: The writer does not represent any organization, employer, entity or other individual. The views expressed are those only of the writer. In the case of a sarcastic, facetious, nonsensical, stirring-the-pot, controversial or devil's advocate-type post, the views expressed may not even reflect those of the writer [This sig stolen from Brickcop who stole it from Frank Booth].

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                • #23
                  Doubt it, if the people who are bound to end up homless were given unfettered access to the drugs then they would probably die out in shrort order and the homeless population would probably go down. Like you said, "survival of the fittest" They aren't fit or smart enough to not do the drugs.

                  Originally posted by savage4presiden
                  I'll admitt it. It's hard to argue against your position. But what if drugs were legalized? I think we would see a rise in homelessness which would create even more problems for society. Oh well, I guess it's all "survival of the fittest" anyway.
                  "Respect for religion must be reestablished. Public debt should be reduced. The arrogance of public officials must be curtailed. Assistance to foreign lands must be stopped or we shall bankrupt ourselves. The people should be forced to work and not depend on government for subsistence." - Cicero, 60 B.C.

                  For California police academy notes go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CABasicPolice/

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Gay marraige, destructive?! I'd love to know why you think that way.

                    Originally posted by savage4presiden
                    With drugs, you take one hit and you lose all of your abilities to restrain yourself.
                    That depends on the drug ingested.

                    LSD, alcohol, mushrooms, and pot... No.

                    Oxycontin, cocaine, morphine, heroin, nicotine, and caffeine... Very very likely!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Stonie
                      That depends on the drug ingested.

                      LSD, alcohol, mushrooms, and pot... No.

                      Oxycontin, cocaine, morphine, heroin, nicotine, and caffeine... Very very likely!
                      You forgot alcohol.
                      You have no right to not be offended.-Neal Boortz

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Stonie
                        Gay marraige, destructive?! I'd love to know why you think that way.
                        Ever heard of something called AIDS...Gay people get it more than straight people. We don't allow gay marriage because we don't want to endorse suicide (I'm being sarcastic).

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          So how does keeping them from getting married make them have more of a chance of getting aids? You might try listening to Larry Elder instead of Savage and get a libertarian input once in a while to get a better balance of news. Honestly, who cares if gay people want to get married, how does it hurt you. It is not like they are forcing you to do something because they get married. If anything they should ban celebrity marriages!!

                          Originally posted by savage4presiden
                          Ever heard of something called AIDS...Gay people get it more than straight people. We don't allow gay marriage because we don't want to endorse suicide (I'm being sarcastic).
                          "Respect for religion must be reestablished. Public debt should be reduced. The arrogance of public officials must be curtailed. Assistance to foreign lands must be stopped or we shall bankrupt ourselves. The people should be forced to work and not depend on government for subsistence." - Cicero, 60 B.C.

                          For California police academy notes go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CABasicPolice/

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by pkagel
                            Honestly, who cares if gay people want to get married, how does it hurt you. It is not like they are forcing you to do something because they get married.
                            The "moral right" doesen't approve, thats why it's "destructive".

                            TGY
                            Disclaimer: The writer does not represent any organization, employer, entity or other individual. The views expressed are those only of the writer. In the case of a sarcastic, facetious, nonsensical, stirring-the-pot, controversial or devil's advocate-type post, the views expressed may not even reflect those of the writer [This sig stolen from Brickcop who stole it from Frank Booth].

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Centurion44
                              I didn't intentionally mean to start any sort of debate (although I do enjoy a friendly debate), I was just trying to get an idea of how many LEOs on this forum agree drugs should be legalized.
                              Good luck with that happening.

                              Originally posted by That Guy
                              The "moral right" doesen't approve, thats why it's "destructive".
                              TGY
                              It's the moral right against the immoral/amoral left. What's new. Since when do you get to dictate the standards in America. Btw, gay marriage legislation was voted on in eleven states and only Mass., the bastion of liberal virtues (vices actually), passed it. Everywhere else it was voted down overwhemlingly. So, all you liberal idiots have something to consider. Either you are vastly outnumbered and are on the brink of extinction, or, you must realize that liberal and conservative alike do not like gay marriage.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Moral or immoral, why do we need to worry about it. Cheating on your spouse is immoral, do you propose we make it illegal. Their is lot of stuff that is immoral that is legal, why should people worry about what others do that doesn't hurt them in any way what so ever. FWIW, I'm quite right wing but I'm very libertarian so I really confuse my left wing friends.
                                "Respect for religion must be reestablished. Public debt should be reduced. The arrogance of public officials must be curtailed. Assistance to foreign lands must be stopped or we shall bankrupt ourselves. The people should be forced to work and not depend on government for subsistence." - Cicero, 60 B.C.

                                For California police academy notes go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CABasicPolice/

                                Comment

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