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It's official- we reached the tipping point

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  • It's official- we reached the tipping point

    According to a recent article in the Wall street journal, we have become a nation of moochers.

    As President Barack Obama pushes to raise income taxes on high earners, opponents are seizing on data that indicates these U.S. households already pay a large and growing share of taxes, even compared with high-tax European countries. And a new congressional study concludes that the percentage of U.S. households owing no federal income tax climbed to 51% for 2009.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

    Who actually pays the bills these days?

    It's you and me ... if you pay taxes, that is. If you live off the government tit, you are indeed rewarded. Of course, that requires reckless spending and a a rise in the deficit, but don't worry about it. Since most of the people who get that tax relief will vote for the libs, we know they have a plan on how to balance it all out.
    "Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince" - Unknown Author
    ______________________________________________

    "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." - Thomas Jefferson
    ______________________________________________

    “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.” - John Adams

  • #2
    It's just not fair in my mind that so many senior citizens don't have to pay taxes. The same with college kids. They need to contribute.

    Why do I have to pay so grandma can live large on government cheese?
    Last edited by TheKansan; 05-05-2011, 12:18 PM.
    What is Perseverance?
    -Perseverance is commitment, hard work, patience, endurance.
    -Perseverance is being able to bear difficulties calmly and without complaint.
    -PERSEVERANCE IS TRYING AGAIN AND AGAIN.


    BOP - BPA - ICE

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by FNA209 View Post
      According to a recent article in the Wall street journal, we have become a nation of moochers.

      As President Barack Obama pushes to raise income taxes on high earners, opponents are seizing on data that indicates these U.S. households already pay a large and growing share of taxes, even compared with high-tax European countries. And a new congressional study concludes that the percentage of U.S. households owing no federal income tax climbed to 51% for 2009.

      http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

      Who actually pays the bills these days?

      It's you and me ... if you pay taxes, that is. If you live off the government tit, you are indeed rewarded. Of course, that requires reckless spending and a a rise in the deficit, but don't worry about it. Since most of the people who get that tax relief will vote for the libs, we know they have a plan on how to balance it all out.
      you must not have read the whole article...

      did you notice this paragraph, near the bottom:
      To be sure, some experts say the share of tax borne by the wealthy is not the best measure of a system's progressivity. They say it's more important to look at the tax rates being paid by higher earners. In the U.S., the average tax rate for higher earners has fluctuated, but generally has declined for the top 10% from 29.6% in 1979, to 26.7% in 2007, according to the CBO, even as incomes for that group were rising. Average rates for the very wealthy are often lower than that because of low tax rates on investment income.

      Tax rates for the wealthy are actually decreasing....
      its just that their incomes keep rising, resulting in higher taxed dollars

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TheKansan View Post
        It's just not fair in my mind that so many senior citizens don't have to pay taxes. The same with college kids. They need to contribute.

        Why do I have to pay so grandma can live large on government cheese?
        because you need them to have spending money in order to continue being a consumer and driving the economy

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dlo View Post
          you must not have read the whole article...

          did you notice this paragraph, near the bottom:
          To be sure, some experts say the share of tax borne by the wealthy is not the best measure of a system's progressivity. They say it's more important to look at the tax rates being paid by higher earners. In the U.S., the average tax rate for higher earners has fluctuated, but generally has declined for the top 10% from 29.6% in 1979, to 26.7% in 2007, according to the CBO, even as incomes for that group were rising. Average rates for the very wealthy are often lower than that because of low tax rates on investment income.

          Tax rates for the wealthy are actually decreasing....
          its just that their incomes keep rising, resulting in higher taxed dollars
          And your point is what exactly? Are you wealthy? My taxes haven't gone down. But now there are another 3% of people (up from 48% last year) who pay nothing.
          "Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince" - Unknown Author
          ______________________________________________

          "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." - Thomas Jefferson
          ______________________________________________

          “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.” - John Adams

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by FNA209 View Post
            And your point is what exactly? Are you wealthy? My taxes haven't gone down. But now there are another 3% of people (up from 48% last year) who pay nothing.
            And those 3% are probably mostly senior citizens. All they do is leech off of us working age people. They need to get off the government teet and go get a job.

            THATS RIGHT GRANDPA, I'M TALKING TO YOU!!!
            What is Perseverance?
            -Perseverance is commitment, hard work, patience, endurance.
            -Perseverance is being able to bear difficulties calmly and without complaint.
            -PERSEVERANCE IS TRYING AGAIN AND AGAIN.


            BOP - BPA - ICE

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TheKansan View Post
              And those 3% are probably mostly senior citizens. All they do is leech off of us working age people. They need to get off the government teet and go get a job.

              THATS RIGHT GRANDPA, I'M TALKING TO YOU!!!
              I guess I'll have to assume you are attempting to explain something in a rather tortured logic way.

              "Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince" - Unknown Author
              ______________________________________________

              "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." - Thomas Jefferson
              ______________________________________________

              “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.” - John Adams

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by FNA209 View Post
                I guess I'll have to assume you are attempting to explain something in a rather tortured logic way.

                Yes I am, but you seem to not understand it. The majority of households in the US that pay no taxes belong to the elderly/senior citizens. By suggesting that these people are somehow mooching the system, you seem to be ignoring certain issues.
                What is Perseverance?
                -Perseverance is commitment, hard work, patience, endurance.
                -Perseverance is being able to bear difficulties calmly and without complaint.
                -PERSEVERANCE IS TRYING AGAIN AND AGAIN.


                BOP - BPA - ICE

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TheKansan View Post
                  Yes I am, but you seem to not understand it. The majority of households in the US that pay no taxes belong to the elderly/senior citizens. By suggesting that these people are somehow mooching the system, you seem to be ignoring certain issues.
                  You have stats that back that up?

                  As of 2005, it broke this way:

                  Income
                  The 42.5 million non-payers are largely low-income. Indeed, 91 percent of them earned less than $30,000 per year and 96 percent earned less than $40,000. Fewer than 1 percent will earn more than $75,000 per year – a group comprised largely of business owners whose tax liabilities will be erased due to business losses, carry-overs from prior year AMT payments, or foreign tax credits.

                  Age
                  Non-payers in 2004 were overwhelmingly young. Looking at the age of the primary breadwinner on these tax returns, only 26 percent are 45 years old or older. More than one-third (35 percent) are younger than age 25, and 54 percent are younger than age 35. Interestingly, there is a significant cluster of households (20.7 percent) where the principal wage earner is between the ages of 35 and 44. Most likely, these are modest-income families who benefited most from the doubling of the value of the child credit to $1,000 and were, thus, pushed into the non-payer status.

                  Race or Ethnicity
                  The racial or ethnic composition of the 42.5 million non-payers roughly mirrors the demographics of American tax filers as a whole. For example, white Americans are 83 percent of total taxpayers, and the percentage of zero-tax filers who are white is 79 percent. African Americans are roughly 13 percent of total taxpayers and 16 percent of zero-tax filers. Asian Americans comprise 3.6 percent of total taxpayers and 3.2 percent of zero-tax filers.

                  That said, the percentage of non-payers within each ethnic or racial group does vary: 28.6 percent of Asian Americans tax filers get back every dollar withheld, 31.1 percent of white American tax filers will owe nothing, and 41.7 percent of African Americans will file a tax return with no liability.

                  Absent from these categories are Hispanic Americans. Within Census data, race and ethnic Hispanic origin are not comparable concepts because a Hispanic individual can be of any race. As a result, Hispanics Americans must be considered separately from racial characteristics. Hispanics make up 15 percent of the 42.5 million individuals or households that paid no income taxes in 2004. In contrast, they made up roughly 10 percent of all 131 million taxable American households.

                  Gender
                  Some 54 percent of non-payers are single women or families with children where the principal wage earner is a woman. That leaves 46 percent of non-payers in 2004 who are either men or families in which a man is the major breadwinner.
                  Last edited by FNA209; 05-06-2011, 11:46 PM.
                  "Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince" - Unknown Author
                  ______________________________________________

                  "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." - Thomas Jefferson
                  ______________________________________________

                  “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.” - John Adams

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by FNA209 View Post
                    According to a recent article in the Wall street journal, we have become a nation of moochers.

                    As President Barack Obama pushes to raise income taxes on high earners, opponents are seizing on data that indicates these U.S. households already pay a large and growing share of taxes, even compared with high-tax European countries. And a new congressional study concludes that the percentage of U.S. households owing no federal income tax climbed to 51% for 2009.

                    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

                    Who actually pays the bills these days?

                    It's you and me ... if you pay taxes, that is. If you live off the government tit, you are indeed rewarded. Of course, that requires reckless spending and a a rise in the deficit, but don't worry about it. Since most of the people who get that tax relief will vote for the libs, we know they have a plan on how to balance it all out.
                    Many Americans paying lowest tax burden since 1958...
                    http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/...est-since-1958

                    Yeah.
                    I can see why those Tea Partiers are so upset
                    they are paying less than their parents did

                    oh, the outrage

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dlo View Post
                      Many Americans paying lowest tax burden since 1958...
                      http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/...est-since-1958

                      Yeah.
                      I can see why those Tea Partiers are so upset
                      they are paying less than their parents did

                      oh, the outrage
                      Twisting the OP a bit again? The issue is that 51% of the people pay nothing and even get money back. I suppose if I were one of those, I'd be happy, but I'm not. But hey, as long as there are a lot of people in the US that are in agreement with over half of the people being paid to live here, I guess the trend will continue.
                      "Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince" - Unknown Author
                      ______________________________________________

                      "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." - Thomas Jefferson
                      ______________________________________________

                      “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.” - John Adams

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by FNA209 View Post
                        Twisting the OP a bit again? The issue is that 51% of the people pay nothing and even get money back. I suppose if I were one of those, I'd be happy, but I'm not. But hey, as long as there are a lot of people in the US that are in agreement with over half of the people being paid to live here, I guess the trend will continue.
                        You are repeating an inaccuracy which significantly alters your argument
                        It is untrue that "51% of the people pay nothing"...
                        The article that you posted even clarifies that those people generally still pay Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes.
                        So they don't "pay nothing"

                        As for other Federal Income taxes.
                        I guess I'm not too concerned those people (the majority of whom are making less than $30,000 per year) are not paying more of that into tax rolls.
                        While reducing the spending power of people already at/near the poverty level might be more "fair"....
                        I don't necessarily think it would be better
                        Its probably better for the country to keep them as consumers with slightly more money to spend vs. less

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Social Security and Medicare don't pay for everything our government does- matter of fact they don't even pay for what they do. The article pointed out it's about income tax. You're repeating a nice little attempt made by people attempting to ignore the fact as stated.

                          You love chiming in with stuff like "But they pay SS and MC so they pay taxes..."

                          All the time you fully understand we're talking income tax, but you can't legitimately argue that, so you broaden the issue. That's why we can't discuss many issues. They get broadened and the problem gets lost in the clutter.
                          Last edited by FNA209; 05-11-2011, 09:38 AM.
                          "Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince" - Unknown Author
                          ______________________________________________

                          "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." - Thomas Jefferson
                          ______________________________________________

                          “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.” - John Adams

                          Comment

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