Alaska "soverign citizens" plot to kill judge, police

[dlo]

Federal agents made extensive recordings of Fairbanks militia members plotting to kill or kidnap judges and Alaska State Troopers and burn their houses, according to documents filed in court Friday.

Four leaders of the Fairbanks-based Alaska Peacekeeper's Militia -- Francis "Schaeffer" Cox, 26, Lonnie Vernon, 55, his wife Karen Vernon, 64, and Coleman Barney, 36 -- are charged with conspiring to commit murder, kidnapping and arson. They are also charged with hindering prosecution and possession of illegal weapons.

The four are in jail in Fairbanks. Bail for Cox was set at $3 million. Barney and Karen and Lonnie Vernon were each held on $2 million bail.

Lonnie Vernon called the 17-page criminal complaint "hearsay on paper," according to the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner.

Vernon is charged in a separate federal case for threatening the lives of a federal judge and one of his family members, according to the federal indictment.

http://www.adn.com/2011/03/11/175026...d-to-kill.html

man.
remember a few years back when the Dept of Homeland Security released that memo about the potential for far right wing terrorism and crime....
and everyone called it a political stunt and smeared Napolitano....

just another example of how wrong DHS was, huh ?

[SRT936]

man.
remember a few years back when the Dept of Homeland Security released that memo about the potential for far right wing terrorism and crime....
and everyone called it a political stunt and smeared Napolitano....

just another example of how wrong DHS was, huh ?

Interesting. TalkingPointsMemo puts out this story and less than 2 hours later, you're linking the story they linked. You're nothing if not predictable.

Oh, and "soverign" is spelled "sovereign". If you're going to troll, you should at least take a little pride in it.

[DAL]

Yes, this proves beyond a doubt that the threat from the lunatic "rightist" fringe is at least as great as the threat from Islamic extremists and drug cartels.

Do you follow Sheila Jackson Lee on Twitter and Facebook?

[dlo]

Yes, this proves beyond a doubt that the threat from the lunatic "rightist" fringe is at least as great as the threat from Islamic extremists and drug cartels.

Do you follow Sheila Jackson Lee on Twitter and Facebook?

who says anything about rank ordering threats?
That report didn't claim that "right wing extremism" was a greater threat than the others.
it simply warned of a potential rise in such events....

conservatives then smeared Napolitano and the Obama admin and suggested they were making up, or over blowing the threat potential.
And they seized upon the fact that the report mentioned individuals with "prior military training" and suggested the Obama administration was "targeting veterans"
And yet we've seen a handful of those events or arrests since that time

although it would be interesting to see how many attempts or arrests have been made for "muslim extremists" vs. "right wing extremists" over the past few years

[SRT936]

^^^ Yep. That ONE incident certainly means that there has been a radical increase in the number of right-wing extremist attacks in the past 2 years.

[dlo]

^^^ Yep. That ONE incident certainly means that there has been a radical increase in the number of right-wing extremist attacks in the past 2 years.

so you think that's the only one?
Are you being naive, or just trying to be contradictory ?

[SRT936]

so you think that's the only one?
Are you being naive, or just trying to be contradictory ?

There has been no increase in right-wing attacks in the past 2 years. Quite frankly, its remained relatively stable.

The truth of the matter is that an isolated incident is not proof that there has been a dramatic increase. If that's the case, I could make the argument that the attack on Gabby Giffords is a clear indication that left-wing attacks are on a dramatic up-turn.

Here's the truth. There are nut-jobs on the fringes of both extremes that perpetrate violence against their perceived enemy. Your attempt to paint a right-wing group as being indicative of the whole is nothing more than your very misguided politics showing through. If you were capable of utilizing some intellectual honesty, you'd realize that. Instead, as usual, you've decided to simply troll your contrary point of view in a lame attempt to get a rise out of others.

[dlo]

There has been no increase in right-wing attacks in the past 2 years. Quite frankly, its remained relatively stable.

The truth of the matter is that an isolated incident is not proof that there has been a dramatic increase. If that's the case, I could make the argument that the attack on Gabby Giffords is a clear indication that left-wing attacks are on a dramatic up-turn.

Here's the truth. There are nut-jobs on the fringes of both extremes that perpetrate violence against their perceived enemy. Your attempt to paint a right-wing group as being indicative of the whole is nothing more than your very misguided politics showing through. If you were capable of utilizing some intellectual honesty, you'd realize that. Instead, as usual, you've decided to simply troll your contrary point of view in a lame attempt to get a rise out of others.

depends on who you ask.
The Southern Poverty Law Center says there has been -- although I imagine you'll discredit their opinion

The DHS is one entity responsible for tracking those things. I wouldn't expect an assessment after just 2 years. Although they may have that information - just not published yet.
We'll see

[SRT936]

depends on who you ask.
The Southern Poverty Law Center says there has been -- although I imagine you'll discredit their opinion

Interestingly enough, SPLC says that membership in organizations it deems as being right-wing extremists is up but attacks have remained static.

But you're right. When the SPLC published a report claiming that Jared Loughner was a right-wing extremist, they lost a TON of credibility.

The DHS is one entity responsible for tracking those things. I wouldn't expect an assessment after just 2 years. Although they may have that information - just not published yet.
We'll see

So once again, you're basing your opinion on what you think the facts should be. I shouldn't be surprised....

[SRT936]

Just did a little more digging on SPLC's website. They list "We Are Change" as a right-wing organization. "We Are Change" is certainly anti-government but takes stands all over the political spectrum. For example, they believe that any form of censorship is unconstitutional and that drugs should be legalized. Further, they believe that most of the Republican leadership was involved in the 9/11 attacks. Yep, they sound really right-wing to me.

[PABear31]

As usual you take a news item and twist it just enough to support your attack on conservatives and Fox News. No one in law enforcement can seriously state that there are no fringe groups that espouse conservative philosophy and advocate violence to acheive their aims. However, the leaked memo wasn't controversial because it discussed far right domestic terrorists, It raised peoples hackles because homeland security recommended profiling military veterans and members of legitimate conservative groups without offering other indicators. The memo as written implied that anyone who had served in the armed forces or carried a conservative viewpoint was a potential terrorist.

By the same token we can't pretend that there are not fringe groups on the left that advocate the violent overthrow of the United State as some on the left here do. There is a long tradition of anarchists, scocialists and communists using violence to obtain their political aims.

[PABear31]

While the SPLC can be a useful tool for gathering information on some groups that advocate violence to attain their ends they are hardly an unbiased source of information, nor does their self determined mandate charge them to track all groups who advocate making political change using violence only those that express hatred for those groups of people that the SPLC feels are worthy of protection

[dlo]

As usual you take a news item and twist it just enough to support your attack on conservatives and Fox News. No one in law enforcement can seriously state that there are no fringe groups that espouse conservative philosophy and advocate violence to acheive their aims. However, the leaked memo wasn't controversial because it discussed far right domestic terrorists, It raised peoples hackles because homeland security recommended profiling military veterans and members of legitimate conservative groups without offering other indicators. The memo as written implied that anyone who had served in the armed forces or carried a conservative viewpoint was a potential terrorist.

By the same token we can't pretend that there are not fringe groups on the left that advocate the violent overthrow of the United State as some on the left here do. There is a long tradition of anarchists, scocialists and communists using violence to obtain their political aims.

it wasn't a "leaked memo".
It was a DHS publication

by "profiling military" do you mean this sentence, which specifically said "small percentage" and referenced a historical trend?
The willingness of a small percentage of military personnel to join extremist groups during the 1990s because they were disgruntled, disillusioned, or suffering from the psychological effects of war is being replicated today

that's not really "profiling" all military

[dlo]

Interestingly enough, SPLC says that membership in organizations it deems as being right-wing extremists is up but attacks have remained static.

But you're right. When the SPLC published a report claiming that Jared Loughner was a right-wing extremist, they lost a TON of credibility.



So once again, you're basing your opinion on what you think the facts should be. I shouldn't be surprised....

Actually, I found publications on SPLC's website that says they see increasing trends - specifically of groups like the sovereign citizens.
And here is a similar implication from the Christian Science Monitor:
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/03...tremist-threat

Are they an acceptable source, in your eyes ?

[fishAK]

Suggesting that Cox is anything other than a nut job with a vendetta against law enforcement is assuming way too much. He is an isolated incident who has openly made many threats against LEO's, specifically Alaska State Troopers. Don't give this guy more credibility than he deserves. Trying to link him to "right wing extremists," or any other group, is more than he really is.