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  • Gates warns against any more wars like Iraq or Afghanistan

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/26/wo...s.html?_r=1&hp

    WEST POINT, NY — Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates bluntly told an audience of West Point cadets on Friday that it would be unwise for the United States to ever fight another war like Iraq or Afghanistan, and that the chances of carrying out a change of regime in that fashion again are slim.

    “In my opinion, any future defense secretary who advises the president to again send a big American land army into Asia or into the Middle East or Africa should ‘have his head examined,’ as General MacArthur so delicately put it,” Mr. Gates told an assembly of Army cadets here.

    That reality, he said, meant that the Army would have to reshape its budget, since potential conflicts in places like Asia or the Persian Gulf were more likely to be fought with air and sea power, rather than with conventional ground forces.

    “As the prospects for another head-on clash of large mechanized land armies seem less likely, the Army will be increasingly challenged to justify the number, size, and cost of its heavy formations,” Mr. Gates warned.

    “The odds of repeating another Afghanistan or Iraq — invading, pacifying, and administering a large third-world country — may be low,” Mr. Gates said, but the Army and the rest of the government must focus on capabilities that can “prevent festering problems from growing into full-blown crises which require costly — and controversial — large-scale American military intervention.”

    continues.....
    'should have his head examined'

    could've used sensibility like that a few years ago.
    Weren't most conservatives claiming it was a great idea?

    in the end: the Iraq war budget + money lost to fraud + care for the wounded troops, for life + repairs/replacement to military equipment ....
    will all cost more than anything Obama has proposed.

  • #2
    Y'know, if we don't play with him, he might take his ball and go home.
    Pete Malloy, "The only thing black and white about this job is the car."

    Comment


    • #3
      Gates is an idiot....and I am glad that he will be gone soon....

      Nice message to send to Iran and China.....

      Comment


      • #4
        "The odds of repeating another Afghanistan or Iraq — invading, pacifying, and administering a large third-world country — may be low,” Mr. Gates said...
        Invading, pacifying, and administering other countries has been a large part of US foreign policy since the 1890's. Why does Gates think something's changed?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by zr5667
          with nothing much to show for it.
          Other than producing Combat Harden Vets.....and improving our ways of killing the enemy.....which neither of them have.....

          But of course, you would think of that because you've never served......

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bearcat357 View Post
            Other than producing Combat Harden Vets.....and improving our ways of killing the enemy.....which neither of them have.....

            But of course, you would think of that because you've never served......
            typical - you try to wield prior service as some kind of "gotcha"
            meanwhile, criticize Gates who has served in the AF and CIA as being "an idiot"

            you love to try rank people by their prior service, or lack of... yet I don't think you did 20 years, did ya ?

            Those two are an interesting justification for the wars... haven't actually heard someone try to use them thus far.
            granted, they are kind of a weak justification....
            I guess its too bad the services are losing mid-career officers and NCO's at a rapid rate thanks to the optempo, and leaving gapping holes in the rising ranks

            and I imagine that weapons development would have continued just fine without the wars.
            America has been a leader in weapons development and sales long before Iraq

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by OneAdam12 View Post
              Y'know, if we don't play with him, he might take his ball and go home.
              someone has to bring the truth to you heathens

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bearcat357 View Post
                Gates is an idiot....and I am glad that he will be gone soon....

                Nice message to send to Iran and China.....
                lol

                I can't think of anyone that Gates' message is more tailored for than you.....

                Comment


                • #9
                  You Libs make me sick to my stomach......

                  Last time I checked DLO, I still work for the GOV/.Mil....doing stuff that keeps me in the know.... Most of my fellow co-workers shock their heads at Gates comments as well..... And they are either GS workers or Military folks that have more time in service that you do Mr. Combat Support.....

                  Gates is a sell-out.... He's bowing down to Barry and his crew of asshats to please them and look like he's done something. Just like Rummy the Dummy selling us short on Troops/Equipment needed in Iraq..... Rest assured, when we only have under 1000 troops in Iraq, we will be back....because the Terrrorist will be plotting from there. We should have flattened the entire place then put a modern Marshall Plan in place....same with A-Stan.... But we dinked around and will end up going back in soon enough....

                  Who said we are losing folks because they are getting out to get out.....? You read that in the NY Times/Wash Post and think it's gospel? We are reducing forces to streamline stuff.... Big difference.....

                  ZR..... I do have issues with folks that haven't served but yet chose to run their mouths.... They have no clue what is going on..... Just like folks coming in here trying to tell the Police how to do their job when they have never walked in their shoes..... It means nothing to me....nor should it mean anything to others....

                  Do you realize our retention rates are at the higest they have ever been...? There are Men/Women re-enlisting in Combat Zones daily......

                  As for the well documented...show me.... And get a better source than some Lib from Wash Post/NY Times/Media Matters/Huffington......

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You Libs make me sick to my stomach......

                    Last time I checked DLO, I still work for the GOV/.Mil....doing stuff that keeps me in the know.... Most of my fellow co-workers shock their heads at Gates comments as well..... And they are either GS workers or Military folks that have more time in service that you do Mr. Combat Support.....
                    oh yeah, the "bearcat opinion polls"
                    very accurate

                    I recall when we argued DADT repeal, and you said everybody you knew was solidly against it...
                    yet every outside poll, including those in the Army Times, contradicted

                    Gates is a sell-out.... He's bowing down to Barry and his crew of asshats to please them and look like he's done something. Just like Rummy the Dummy selling us short on Troops/Equipment needed in Iraq..... Rest assured, when we only have under 1000 troops in Iraq, we will be back....because the Terrrorist will be plotting from there. We should have flattened the entire place then put a modern Marshall Plan in place....same with A-Stan.... But we dinked around and will end up going back in soon enough....
                    so that's a second SecD that is an idiot...
                    Powell said Iraq had blunders...
                    plenty of Army brass...
                    but they are all idiots or sellouts, right? only you have it right ?

                    Who said we are losing folks because they are getting out to get out.....? You read that in the NY Times/Wash Post and think it's gospel? We are reducing forces to streamline stuff.... Big difference.....
                    plenty of sources and quotes.
                    Here's one from the Wash Post (ps - just b/c its from the Wash Post doesn't mean its not true)
                    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072502976.html

                    BTW. The Army was increasing end strength, not reducing it.
                    Are you sure you are "in the know" as you claim ?


                    ZR..... I do have issues with folks that haven't served but yet chose to run their mouths.... They have no clue what is going on..... Just like folks coming in here trying to tell the Police how to do their job when they have never walked in their shoes..... It means nothing to me....nor should it mean anything to others....
                    Do you realize our retention rates are at the higest they have ever been...? There are Men/Women re-enlisting in Combat Zones daily......

                    As for the well documented...show me.... And get a better source than some Lib from Wash Post/NY Times/Media Matters/Huffington......
                    they are back up b/c of the economy now... but the holes are still there going forward

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Blah, blah, blah..... Same BS/Different day for two of o.com's Liberal Trolls......

                      Neither one of you want anything to do with LE....but yet you come on here and act like idiots.....and are allowed to do so...... spewing your Anti-American garbage........ and when anyone calls you out on it you dodge the questions....and post crap from leftwing sites.....

                      Sorry boys.... Posting garbage from Wash Post/NY Times is just like those of us posting stuff from Fox and you having a hissy fit......

                      Both of you need to go out and play in traffic......Because you have no clue WTF you are talking about..... especially "I've been out of FOB 4 times and know what war is all about..."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        To blame conservatives is ridiculous. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were both authorized by a Congress with voting Republican/Democrat members.

                        Feel free to bring up washingtonpost articles to prove your “point,” why not throw up some MSNBC links from youtube as well? Since the media is in the unfortunate state it is right now, it would not be hard for one to find opposing articles on the same issues. Also feel free to quote a negative statement about the wars by some service member, I’ll find ten more positive ones.

                        Our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan are not over yet, and the potential benefits are yet to be realized.

                        As a side note, you not having prior service IS a “gotcha” in this case. You know less about the efforts in Iraq/Afghanistan than the most junior E-1 that has been there, so your arbitrary statements hold no water. It’s like me telling you your department/agency sucks because I read somewhere that they were corrupt and inefficient.

                        Pretty soon you’re gonna get all wild-eyed and start drooling, and say the wars were *gasp* “illegal!"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Blah, blah, blah..... Same BS/Different day for two of o.com's Liberal Trolls......
                          I posted actual references
                          You just spout insults
                          which is BS ?

                          Neither one of you want anything to do with LE
                          not true at all....
                          ....but yet you come on here and act like idiots.....and are allowed to do so...... spewing your Anti-American garbage........
                          "anti-american" ? That junk again ?
                          let me guess... anything you disagree with is "anti-american"
                          and when anyone calls you out on it you dodge the questions....and post crap from leftwing sites.....
                          what questions have I dodged.
                          I've been posting references to all my thoughts.
                          You haven't posted anything to support your counter-argument, other then suggesting that "everyone you work with" thinks like you

                          Sorry boys.... Posting garbage from Wash Post/NY Times is just like those of us posting stuff from Fox and you having a hissy fit......
                          Here's another one for you:
                          http://www.army.mil/-news/2010/01/28...ent/index.html
                          The U.S. Army has made significant investments in its future, especially in its leadership. In particular, the Army has devoted billions of dollars to officer undergraduate-level education, world class training, and developmental experiences. Since the late 1980s, however, prospects for the Officer Corps' future have been darkened by an ever-diminishing return on this investment, as evidenced by plummeting company-grade officer retention rates. Significantly, this leakage includes a large share of high-performing officers, many of them developed via a fully-funded undergraduate education.

                          there are plenty more. Feel free to utilize google

                          And here's a 2009 Army Posture Statement that says the Army is growing through 2011, not shrinking, as you claimed. Its from a .mil address.... how are you going to shrug this one off ?
                          http://www.army.mil/aps/09/informati...retention.html

                          Both of you need to go out and play in traffic......Because you have no clue WTF you are talking about..... especially "I've been out of FOB 4 times and know what war is all about..."
                          I've been posting support for my claim...
                          far more than you have
                          but wait... I forgot... you already know everything because of your work buddies, right?
                          They are the be all, end all for all issues Army
                          Right, "I've never been deployed to OIF or OEF in uniform - but it doesn't matter b/c I sill know everything"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            To blame conservatives is ridiculous. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were both authorized by a Congress with voting Republican/Democrat members.

                            Feel free to bring up washingtonpost articles to prove your “point,” why not throw up some MSNBC links from youtube as well? Since the media is in the unfortunate state it is right now, it would not be hard for one to find opposing articles on the same issues. Also feel free to quote a negative statement about the wars by some service member, I’ll find ten more positive ones.
                            These aren't "some servicemembers"
                            My OP was a speech from the SecD
                            The article I posted (which I guess you didn't even bother to look at) quoted a number of senior officers....

                            feel free to post 10 articles claiming that the ground war in Iraq went very well, was not expensive and could easily be done again in the future
                            I'd also be interested to see 10 articles claiming the Army is not losing a large number of mid career officers
                            if you find them, I will be glad to read them and consider them

                            Our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan are not over yet, and the potential benefits are yet to be realized.
                            i'm curious what benefits you predict ?

                            As a side note, you not having prior service IS a “gotcha” in this case. You know less about the efforts in Iraq/Afghanistan than the most junior E-1 that has been there, so your arbitrary statements hold no water. It’s like me telling you your department/agency sucks because I read somewhere that they were corrupt and inefficient.
                            Oh, the most junior E-1 with a deployment under his belt knows far more about the big picture?
                            Is that why, after that first rotation, they make all the E-1's into O-6's and Chiefs of Staff ?

                            But I guess if that's true, it takes Bearcat's opinions off the table, because I don't believe he's deployed to OIF or OEF in uniform....

                            I understand what you are getting at, but that assumption is a little foolish.
                            The average junior E-1 on his first tour does not have a big picture view of it all....

                            Which arbitrary statement did I make?

                            Pretty soon you’re gonna get all wild-eyed and start drooling, and say the wars were *gasp* “illegal!"
                            I'm not drooling. My eyes are fine
                            feel free to come back with facts, references or data,
                            not your speculative opinions.
                            I'll be interested to see it
                            Last edited by dlo; 02-26-2011, 10:30 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Gates should have never been brought on after Bush left. He's an Idiot.....
                              Just another squirrel, tryin' to get a nut......

                              Comment

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