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  • Creation Science at its best

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/...VwYWNhYnJhY3I-

    Chupacabra? Creationist Museum Displays Mystery Beast
    LiveScience.com

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    Benjamin Radford
    LiveScience's Bad Science Columnist
    LiveScience.com benjamin Radford
    livescience's Bad Science Columnist
    livescience.com – Fri Oct 16, 3:09 pm ET

    Last week a most unusual animal made its world premiere in an equally strange museum in the small town of Phoenix, New York.

    The mounted and stuffed beast is claimed to be the elusive chupacabra (the vampiric "goat sucker" of Hispanic folklore), and is on display for an exclusive engagement through Halloween at the Lost World Museum, run by real estate agent John Adolfi.

    Adolfi's chupacabra was found thousands of miles away in Blanco, Texas, in August. A local man presented the dead animal (half jokingly) as a chupacabra to a taxidermist named Jerry Ayer. It had been attacking chickens a few days earlier, and succumbed to poison left as bait. The canid creature weighed about 80 pounds and resembled a coyote or dog. But its front legs were a few inches longer than most coyotes', and it was mostly hairless except for around the feet and along its backbone.

    The news got out, and soon the taxidermy school where Ayer works was getting 100 calls a day from people all over the world inquiring about his mysterious carcass. Ayer had planned to display the creature as a conversation piece, or in a museum, but soon realized that the publicity would not go away until he was rid of the chupacabra. It was soon sold to Mr. Adolfi, destined for a place in the spotlight at his museum.

    So is the animal really the mysterious bloodsucking beast, the world's third best-known mystery animal after Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster?

    Tissue samples were taken, though DNA results have not been revealed.

    The two most common explanations are that it is either a hairless Mexican dog breed called Xoloitzcuintli (Xolo for short), or a mangy coyote. Indeed, previous "chupacabras" found in nearby Cuero, Texas, in 2007 were found to be mostly coyote. Ayer himself is quick to point out that he never claimed he had a chupacabra.

    "I still don't know what it is; in my opinion it's some sort of genetically defective coyote," Ayer told LiveScience. "I don't believe in chupacabras. I don't believe in any mythical beasts whatsoever. We labeled it that because everyone else was calling it that."

    Chupacabra or not, Adolfi wanted to exhibit the beast as an example of the fallibility of science. His Lost World Museum (named after Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's 1912 novel in which dinosaurs still exist) features items and artifacts that he believes proves that scientists don't have all the answers. A creationist, Adolfi believes that the Earth was created 6,000 to 10,000 years ago by God. He believes that by displaying the chupacabra, he will cast doubt on the credibility of mainstream scientists: If scientists scoff at the chupacabra's existence, could they be wrong about evolution and the age of the Earth?

    It may be that the Lost World Museum holds the world's first stuffed and mounted authentic chupacabra. Or, once the DNA results come in, Adolfi may find that he has purchased and displayed the world's most expensive coyote carcass. Only time - and science - will tell.

    * Our 10 Favorite Monsters
    * Monsters, Ghosts and Gods: Why We Believe
    * Cryptozoology: The Creatures of Legend

    Benjamin Radford is managing editor of the Skeptical Inquirer science magazine and investigator with the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry. His book on the chupacabra mystery will be published next year. His books, films, and other projects can be found on his website. His Bad Science column appears regularly on LiveScience.

    * Original Story: Chupacabra? Creationist Museum Displays Mystery Beast

    LiveScience.com chronicles the daily advances and innovations made in science

  • #2
    Funny, I don't see any quotes in there from the owner, just the supposition of the author. Old story too, the DNA came back to a fox if with some disease if I remember correctly.
    Last edited by ray8285; 10-20-2009, 01:28 PM.
    A Veteran is someone who at one point in their life wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America, for an amount up to, and including their life. That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today, who no longer understand that fact!

    Comment


    • #3
      Two can play this BP, and mine were some of the greatest scientific minds of the day:

      Piltdown was an archaeological site in England where in 1908 and 1912 human, ape and other mammal fossils were found together. In 1913 at a nearby site was found an ape's jaw with a canine tooth worn down like a human's. The general community of British paleoanthropologists came to accept the idea that the fossil remains belonged to a single creature that had had a human cranium and an ape's jaw. In 1953, Piltdown 'man' was exposed as a forgery. The skull was modern and the teeth on the ape's jaw had been filed down.

      How had so many scientists been duped? Stephen Jay Gould offers several reasons, among them wishful thinking and cultural bias. The latter, no doubt, played a role in the lack of critical thinking among British paleoanthropologists. But, above all, the Piltdown forgery demonstrates the fallibility of scientific knowledge.
      A Veteran is someone who at one point in their life wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America, for an amount up to, and including their life. That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today, who no longer understand that fact!

      Comment


      • #4
        So Pat's example is from this Friday and Ray's example is from 1912......

        *EDIT* actually to be fair I guess Piltdown wasn't really discredited until the early 50's.

        I love how you keep bringing up Piltdown man like hey look, evolution scientists were wrong about this one thing or that one thing so that must mean the other hundreds of thousands of things that indicate evolution occurs must be wrong too!
        Last edited by Citizen85; 10-20-2009, 03:13 PM.
        "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”

        — John Stuart Mill

        Comment


        • #5
          I think the best way to judge scientific theories and hypotheses by their predictive power. Even theories (or laws, such as Newton's laws of motion) that are not entirely correct, have considerable value.

          I do not see any predictive power at all in "Creation Science."
          Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
          Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Citizen85 View Post
            So Pat's example is from this Friday and Ray's example is from 1912......

            *EDIT* actually to be fair I guess Piltdown wasn't really discredited until the early 50's.

            I love how you keep bringing up Piltdown man like hey look, evolution scientists were wrong about this one thing or that one thing so that must mean the other hundreds of thousands of things that indicate evolution occurs must be wrong too!
            I don't spend all day researching, whatever pops into my head....how about something a little closer to home...Archeoraptor I believe it was called...

            Again, read the article stay on target.....they are comparing science and a scientific point of view to some real estate agent, whom it would appear, they never actually interviewed since he is not quoted.
            A Veteran is someone who at one point in their life wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America, for an amount up to, and including their life. That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today, who no longer understand that fact!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DAL View Post
              I think the best way to judge scientific theories and hypotheses by their predictive power.

              I do not see any predictive power at all in "Creation Science."
              I agree, but what happens when the predictions turn out to be consistently wrong? Evolution has been changed so many times over the years that it no longer has any real meaning.

              Darwin began the first real change and tried to provide insight and answers, almost everything he believed we now know to be if not wrong, then flawed. Yet, his "theory" keeps getting changed to reflect new information as it is uncovered....I know how scientific theories work...it is supposition supposedly supported by facts, but it is still not factual, those are called Laws in the scientific community (see Newton)
              A Veteran is someone who at one point in their life wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America, for an amount up to, and including their life. That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today, who no longer understand that fact!

              Comment


              • #8
                LOL at BP for thinking it's a representative of creation science. The term would depend on who you asked and it isn't even in the article.

                Nice try.

                "Why, for example, should a group of simple, stable compounds of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen struggle for billions of years to organise themselves into a professor of chemistry? What's the motive?" -Robert Pirsig

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ray8285 View Post
                  I don't spend all day researching, whatever pops into my head....how about something a little closer to home...Archeoraptor I believe it was called...

                  Again, read the article stay on target.....they are comparing science and a scientific point of view to some real estate agent, whom it would appear, they never actually interviewed since he is not quoted.
                  Not defending the article or whatever motives you think the OP has for posting it. I'm just starting to get a kick out of you and your whole "LOOK EVOLUTION IS BUNK BECAUSE OF PILTDOWN MAN!" thing. You do of course realize Piltdown was immediately doubted by some scientists and eventually proven to be a hoax by scientist who accepted evolution right? Piltdown was proven a hoax through the exact same scientific method that points to evolution's existence in thousands of other cases. That in and of it self shows your argument that scientists just jump on the popular bandwagon is flawed.
                  "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”

                  — John Stuart Mill

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ...hunter of the shadows is rising...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Citizen85 View Post
                      . I'm just starting to get a kick out of you and your whole "LOOK EVOLUTION IS BUNK BECAUSE OF PILTDOWN MAN!" thing.

                      You do of course realize Piltdown was immediately doubted by some scientists and eventually proven to be a hoax by scientist who accepted evolution right? Piltdown was proven a hoax through the exact same scientific method that points to evolution's existence in thousands of other cases. That in and of it self shows your argument that scientists just jump on the popular bandwagon is flawed.
                      Yep, and they ignored the best evidence at the time, because if fit what they believed....

                      If those same exact scientific methods had been used when it was first "discovered", then it would never have gained the foot hold that it did...

                      You over look other posts I have placed, which does not cover very much, of other mistakes made because the what was brought forward fit a preconceived notion. There are a great many of these out there. Pilt Down and Archeoraptor are the most famous and most know of them.
                      A Veteran is someone who at one point in their life wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America, for an amount up to, and including their life. That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today, who no longer understand that fact!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ray8285 View Post
                        Yep, and they ignored the best evidence at the time, because if fit what they believed....

                        If those same exact scientific methods had been used when it was first "discovered", then it would never have gained the foot hold that it did...

                        You over look other posts I have placed, which does not cover very much, of other mistakes made because the what was brought forward fit a preconceived notion. There are a great many of these out there. Pilt Down and Archeoraptor are the most famous and most know of them.
                        None of this discredits evolution, thats my point.
                        "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”

                        — John Stuart Mill

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Not a particularly religious guy, but have to ask.

                          Creationists:

                          Why can evolution not be the way of creation?

                          If there is a God in some sense, why is it more impressive to imagine everything blinked into being, rather than to see it all as the result of a long well thought out plan?

                          Projection of a need for instant gratification?

                          Any being which is eternal would probably get bored with simply creating universes in a week, why not just set the snowball rolling and see what you have at the bottom of the hill?

                          M-11
                          “All men dream...... But not equally..
                          Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
                          but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
                          for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

                          TE Lawrence

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by M-11 View Post
                            Not a particularly religious guy, but have to ask.

                            Creationists:

                            Why can evolution not be the way of creation?
                            It can be. We just had a long discussion on this and it got deleted, I suspect that this is a retaliation thread for hurt feelings.

                            If there is a God in some sense, why is it more impressive to imagine everything blinked into being, rather than to see it all as the result of a long well thought out plan?

                            Projection of a need for instant gratification?

                            Any being which is eternal would probably get bored with simply creating universes in a week, why not just set the snowball rolling and see what you have at the bottom of the hill?

                            M-11
                            The creationist point of view is constantly being misrepresented. Theists are all over the map on it, but the most fundamentalist biblical point of view gets represented as the norm. That's because those who prefer a secular answer, even though there are none are insecure with their own position.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Do you believe in magic?
                              In a young girls heart
                              How the music can free her
                              whenever it starts

                              And it's magic
                              if the music is groovy
                              It makes you feel happy like an old time movie

                              I'll tell ya about the magic
                              It'll free your soul
                              but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll

                              If you believe in magic, don't bother to choose
                              If it's jug band music or rhythm and blues
                              Just go and listen
                              It'll start with a smile
                              It won't wipe off your face no matter how hard you try
                              Your feet start tapping
                              And you can't seem to find
                              How you got there
                              So just blow your mind

                              If you believe in magic
                              Come along with me
                              We'll dance until morning, just you and me
                              and maybe, if the music is right
                              I'll meet ya tomorrow
                              so late at night

                              We'll go a dancin' baby then you'll see
                              all the magic's in the music and the music's in me, yeah

                              Do you belive in magic? Yeah.
                              Believe in the magic in a young girl's soul
                              believe in the magic of rock n roll
                              Believe in the magic that can set you free
                              Ohhhh, talkin' bout magic

                              Do you believe like I believe?
                              Do you believe in magic?
                              ...hunter of the shadows is rising...

                              Comment

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