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  • Uh-oh- Congress is baaack....

    in session.

    Congress is back. President Obama is starting to campaign again. Our alert status is back in the red. After all, when Congress was on vacation, they were relatively harmless. They’re back; all primed and ready for more mayhem. That’s a scary thought.

    The current issue they will be addressing will affect about 18% of our economy – it’s the healthcare industry. Obama is going on the campaign trail again in his attempt to seize control of that 18% of the economy. He has given up on his “Hope and Change” message. He has a new one- “Security and Stability”. Expect him to demonize health insurance profits. We can only hope he's stupid enough to throw a few bombs at those “mean conservatives” (those bastards) who want to “kill Kenny” by denying poor folks healthcare insurance. After all, as various Democrats have said, those conservatives are nothing more than un-American terrorists anyway.

    Meanwhile, Congress is pounding out a new proposal. The latest version being suggested by Democrat Senator Max Baucus seems to have removed the so-called government option. It does however "require" most Americans to have health insurance and it provides "tax credits" for poor people to buy health insurance. Think about that for a minute and riddle yourself this, Batman- it will give tax credits to people who pay no taxes. Isn’t that double-speak?

    In truth, what the plan does is it creates a whole new class of welfare recipients. The plan also calls for the creation of nonprofit health-insurance cooperatives along with a new fee on insurance companies to help pay for coverage of the uninsured. So, those of you who actually produce- those of you who actually work for a living- will pay higher taxes and also more for your insurance plan since the money necessary to insure the new welfare class has to come from somewhere.

    Welcome to indentured service. Plus, the Democrats know that even by getting a “compromising” bill passed, the nonprofit company will eventually kill off the insurance industry. So if you like your current plan, you can kiss it goodbye in the near future.

    Obama made his speech to a joint session of Congress a few hours ago. Can’t wait to hear what he said.
    "Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince" - Unknown Author
    ______________________________________________

    "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." - Thomas Jefferson
    ______________________________________________

    “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.” - John Adams

  • #2
    This is my question, however...I've said before, I haven't really agreed with everything Obama has done. And I, like many other Democrats, don't think he is all that aggressive. To be honest, the fear that some here seem to have almost doesn't seem warranted given the fact that he doesn't seem particularly capable of getting his agenda passed as easily as he may have thought, if at all...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by DaLAW View Post
      This is my question, however...I've said before, I haven't really agreed with everything Obama has done. And I, like many other Democrats, don't think he is all that aggressive. To be honest, the fear that some here seem to have almost doesn't seem warranted given the fact that he doesn't seem particularly capable of getting his agenda passed as easily as he may have thought, if at all...
      Probably because he's been all fluff so far...


      That and the Repubs are doing an excellent job stalling and protesting despite being overwhelmed in Congress.


      I still don't see why abled bodied men and women need big brother to pay for everything...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ChevySSP View Post
        Probably because he's been all fluff so far...


        That and the Repubs are doing an excellent job stalling and protesting despite being overwhelmed in Congress.


        I still don't see why abled bodied men and women need big brother to pay for everything...
        Lol, that's the thing...I don't think the Republicans are even doing a stand-out job, I think he just hasn't shown the necessary...mean-streak that he should have. He needs some of W's stubbornness and attitude from time to time...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by DaLAW View Post
          This is my question, however...I've said before, I haven't really agreed with everything Obama has done. And I, like many other Democrats, don't think he is all that aggressive. To be honest, the fear that some here seem to have almost doesn't seem warranted given the fact that he doesn't seem particularly capable of getting his agenda passed as easily as he may have thought, if at all...
          You know, I'm starting to have some second guessing or different thoughts regarding the President.

          He has complete majorities of the House and Senate and can not seem to get really anything he campaigned on passed.

          Why is that? He does not even need a single Repub vote, and still nothing.

          Something must be either really wrong, or he is just really weak and nothing but a "talking head" with no push.

          For one, he can not even reconcile his own party, which I believe shows the real problem with the Democrats on the hill (not Dems in general). The problem I see is that there is really more then 1 party within the Dems and because of that nothing will get done even with basic super majorities. Maybe the Dems on the hill need to split and break up and call the other what they are: The Party of Progressive Socialists vs regular sane Democrats.

          The Republicans really do not have to do much of anything as they are just sitting back watching the Democrat Party self-implode.

          Although, I am starting to think he is less of the really far left person then perceived. I think he started super far left because he knew the moderate Dems and Repubs would naturally pull the bills back to the center and pleasing the far left as he initially threw them a bone.

          Just my thoughts.
          Last edited by SteveOKC; 09-10-2009, 12:40 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            And let us not forget that there are other bills looming. So if we give our undivided attention to the health control bills, they may pass one of those other ones.

            I refer to the cap-n-trade bill which even Democrats say will be extremely costly.

            Also, the card check bill is back on the table. Democrats owe the unions big time, so this is a pay-back for that support. Those who don't know what that one does-

            "Card-check" refers to the most controversial part of the legislation, allowing a union to form via a collection of signed cards rather than a secret-ballot election. What it will do is allow unions to intimidate people into supporting a union. Currently, people can vote as they do in a regular election. It's a secret ballot. The unions want to do away with that. Having been involved in an attempt to form a union at a former job, I know how it works. There was a lot of pressure by the union organizers to vote for the union. Luckily, we could vote yea or nay in secret. One doesn't need to look beyond the recent activity by unions such as the SEIU to see what unions can do.
            "Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince" - Unknown Author
            ______________________________________________

            "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." - Thomas Jefferson
            ______________________________________________

            “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.” - John Adams

            Comment


            • #7
              Well I saw the speech and as expected, it was delivered very well. That is one thing I will say for him is that he has the speech delivering thing down pat.

              Unfortunately, it was more of the same. All style and no substance. The highlight for me is when he said the details of his plan still need to be ironed out and the crowd erupted in laughter. I've never seen that before when a president addressed Congress and I have to believe that is not a good sign for him.

              I would hazard a guess that the man never took a college level Economics class(which would not surprise me as I have spoken with lawyers over the years who obviously had no education in Economics beyond their fee schedule - charge the client 30-40% of the take.)

              To condense his "plan" down to it's essence, he is promising people better coverage than they have now(no pre-existing condition exclusion, no yearly or lifetime caps on benefits, affordable maximum out of pocket limits, and mandatory wellness services.) In addition, he is promising that people will get this better coverage yet pay less than they do now. In addition, he is going to insure over 30 million currently uninsured people in this manner, apparently with the current supply of medical professionals and medical facilities. And he claims he can do this without adding to the deficit.

              The way he plans on accomplishing this mission impossible, is by mandating everybody purchase health care, provide essentially welfare to those who can't afford to buy it, tax businesses 8% of their wage expense if they don't provide it to their employees, and set up a government option which will be entirely self supporting and not use one dime of taxpayer money even though he estimates that only 5% of the population will choose the public option. Furthermore, he states that much of the plan can be financed by cost savings which will come from the elimination of waste and fraud currently in Medicare.

              This raises a question - If Medicare has so much waste and fraud, how can the government in essence expand the program to include all uninsured people without expanding the waste and fraud, let alone eliminating it? He gave no answer. Apparently that is part of those "details" which still need to be ironed out.

              IMHO, the plan is a formula for disaster because you cannot mandate cost increases on the health insurance companies (see mandated coverage changes above) and expect them to not be forced to raise their premiums. Even without those new premium increases, the current cost of employer provided plans are expensive compared to an 8% payroll tax. This means that many if not most employers will dump their plans entirely and thereby force their employees into the public plan. So much for the you can keep your coverage jargon which I do believe is a deliberate deception by him to sell this scheme.

              Another glaring lie and/or inaccuracy was his assertion that Medicare is currently subsidizing insurance companies. I would sure like to hear him clarify what he means by that. From what I have heard, Medicare short changes medical professionals and facilities which in turn forces those folks to raise the prices they charge those insured with private insurance. In other words, private insurance has been subsidizing Medicare.

              His claim that the public option would bring needed competition to the private insurers is ludicrous. Private companies in a free enterprise system are naturally in robust competition by definition. What would improve competition is to bring in more players. The Republican idea of having health insurers sell nationally rather than state by state would do this. It would simply be a matter of the feds taking on insurance regulation of health insurers rather than the states. He said several times that increased competition was important but he did not mention this option. Another sign of the end game going to single payer.

              Tort reform is another Republican idea that would help reduce costs but is not going to be seriously considered by a lawyer president who is up to his neck in lawyer friends and colleagues including one of his Czars who reportedly thinks animals should be given the legal status necessary to file suit and be represented by an attorney. That's all I need my dog to hear! He said he would look into tort reform but I think it is safe to say that concept is DOA in this administration. It was just a bone to throw to the Republicans.

              IMHO my gut tells me he may be sincere in his end goal but lying about the means to achieve it. His end goal being quality, affordable health care for all. His means is a single payer government system which he is on record of favoring. This is consistent with his Marxist disdain for private enterprise/love of government, and his virtual ignorance of Economics which has lead him into believing this plan will work. That is my opinion.

              Now it's time to see if the nation bought his sales pitch or if they see it the way I see it.
              Last edited by JPR; 09-10-2009, 01:57 AM.
              Jubilant Patriotic Republican

              America gave Obama the benefit of the doubt when they elected him. Obama is now giving America the doubt of the benefit of his governance......Change you can bereave in!..JPR

              Comment


              • #8
                JPR...

                I agree with your assesment and it was very well written out.

                I just think he has either lost track or has no idea where he wants to go with it. He seems to just keep talking on and on and on and on and on and I can not for the life of me figure out what his down to the core talking points were in that speech.

                I really do not see how he can squeeze 500 Billion out of Medicare that is the so called waste. Should he not just want get rid of that fraud/waste regardless, why only not that they are talking about Health Care Reform? Heck, why did Bush not do it, or even Clinton? Heck why has Congress or the Senate not done it on there own? Why? I say it's because you can't get 500B out of Medicare.

                Comment


                • #9
                  He quoted 900 billion as a cost. Anybody want to guess how the feds will come up with another 900 billion?
                  "Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince" - Unknown Author
                  ______________________________________________

                  "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." - Thomas Jefferson
                  ______________________________________________

                  “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.” - John Adams

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SteveOKC View Post
                    JPR...

                    I agree with your assesment and it was very well written out.

                    I just think he has either lost track or has no idea where he wants to go with it. He seems to just keep talking on and on and on and on and on and I can not for the life of me figure out what his down to the core talking points were in that speech.

                    I really do not see how he can squeeze 500 Billion out of Medicare that is the so called waste. Should he not just want get rid of that fraud/waste regardless, why only not that they are talking about Health Care Reform? Heck, why did Bush not do it, or even Clinton? Heck why has Congress or the Senate not done it on there own? Why? I say it's because you can't get 500B out of Medicare.
                    Well thank you. It is refreshing to see a young person who possesses such wisdom.
                    Jubilant Patriotic Republican

                    America gave Obama the benefit of the doubt when they elected him. Obama is now giving America the doubt of the benefit of his governance......Change you can bereave in!..JPR

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Here's another side to the health control debate. If the democrats manage to pass a plan with any of the options- be it the public option, the non-profit option, or the single payer system - who will benefit?

                      Since we saw the SEiU step up and carry Obama's water, we can ask why?

                      Here's a blurb from one of their chapters-

                      CONSTITUTION AND BYLAWS - SEIU Healthcare Michigan - (June 2009)

                      Article I – Mission and Goals

                      SEIU Healthcare Michigan is pledged to following democratic principles and to affording full respect for all differences of opinion and to build a strong union, which strives along with organized labor, the community and other organizations towards a more just society…..

                      To Achieve This Mission:

                      • We must organize unorganized Healthcare workers, extending to them the gains of unionism while securing control over the Healthcare industry…..


                      First, I'd say they failed miserably at attempting to follow the "affording full respect for all differences of opinions". Well, they failed if you consider punching someone with a different view is a failure.

                      But the portion saying they want to secure control over healthcare is telling.

                      They are just one of the unions that the Democrats owe big time. And it's time to pay them back. So a large part of Obama's estimate of 900 billion is for who?
                      "Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince" - Unknown Author
                      ______________________________________________

                      "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." - Thomas Jefferson
                      ______________________________________________

                      “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.” - John Adams

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Aside from the immediate response from Republicans concerning Obama's speech (you know- the YOU LIE shout-out ), we have a well-mannered one:

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAuPB...embedded#t=260

                        Let's see how bi-partisan the dems want to be.
                        "Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince" - Unknown Author
                        ______________________________________________

                        "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." - Thomas Jefferson
                        ______________________________________________

                        “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.” - John Adams

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Since we saw the SEiU step up and carry Obama's water, we can ask why?
                          You do know they're in with ACORN, right?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FNA209 View Post
                            He quoted 900 billion as a cost. Anybody want to guess how the feds will come up with another 900 billion?
                            He said 900 billion over 10 years, and he explained where that money would come from about 3 times.
                            "The deepest human defeat suffered by human beings is constituted by the difference between what one was capable of becoming and what one has in fact become."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by FNA209 View Post

                              Let's see how bi-partisan the dems want to be.
                              "I will not waste time with those who have made the calculation that it's better politics to kill this plan than improve it."

                              Best part of the speech right there.
                              "The deepest human defeat suffered by human beings is constituted by the difference between what one was capable of becoming and what one has in fact become."

                              Comment

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