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  • Reform Now

    It seems to me that we have a plethora of intelligent people who post here regularly. We should be able to find a solution for reforming healthcare, social security, and a lot of the other programs that are underfunded and creating the mess this country is in.

    So let's reform social security. It should be easy.

    Suggestions please.
    "Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince" - Unknown Author
    ______________________________________________

    "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." - Thomas Jefferson
    ______________________________________________

    “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.” - John Adams

  • #2
    The Government should stay out of it all together. Any Government ran program ends up becoming a catalist for entitlement benefits for those whom have paid nothing into the system.
    There should be no SS tax. Instead people should be allowed to keep that money that would otherwise go to the Gov and make their own investments that will better fit their induvidual needs.
    America was founded as a Republic. The Governments main role is to enforce the Constitution.
    You are given freedom, freedom to worship whom or what you want, to become anything you can imagine. Its your job to make it happen. If you do not plan, if you do not prepare and make wise decisions I don't feel I should have to fork over my hard earned dollars to take care of you.
    "I would rather live one day as a Lion, than a thousand years as a Sheep."

    Comment


    • #3
      I'll go first.... oops- I go second. (Hey, it's my thread!)

      I think we need to bite the bullet and have individual savings accounts. We could pick an age and cut off payments to SS- I don't know maybe age 35 to 45. The people above that age would be mandated to invest in a private IRA. The money would continue to be taken from their checks as it is now. That would ensure they are putting money aside. Additionally, they would have the feds contribute whatever amount of money they would receive once they reached the retirement age plus an agreed amount of interest. I'm thinking about 8 or 9 % since that would have probably been the average rate over the course of their contributions. That money would be placed in their IRA. Once they die, those contributions end. Any remaining funds in their IRAs go to their spouse and/or children.

      The people under that 35- 45 age get screwed. It really doesn't screw them all that much since they are screwed anyway under the current system- they are going to pay biiiig bucks to keep the system going. They would also have the current rate of deductions from SS be deducted and put into an IRA. I'm not sure of the age since I don't have the financial knowledge to know if it should be 35, 38, 40, 42, or 45. Some money guru could crunch those numbers and come up with a neutral- no loss of their previous payments. Additionally, they would have to continue to pay into the SS fund, but their contributions would be reduced as the years went on.

      Evidently, the people drawing off SS would all be dead. Then everyone would just pay into their own IRA. That would end SS. It really shouldn't cost the younger generations anymore money than they are going to pay under the current system. And our grandkids will be free of it.

      Of course, we would want to provide for the disabled who are completely unable to work so there would have to be some plan for funding that. I'd move that plan to the state level as taking care of those people should be a state level decision.

      I haven't worked out how to handle all of the current abuses to the system and don't know how to handle the unproductive welfare class that start breeding at age 14 and never work a day in their life, but if we can flesh out the basics, I'm sure we also find some way to pay for them.

      How's that so far?
      Last edited by FNA209; 09-04-2009, 10:25 AM. Reason: Someone beat me toit.
      "Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince" - Unknown Author
      ______________________________________________

      "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." - Thomas Jefferson
      ______________________________________________

      “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.” - John Adams

      Comment


      • #4
        Thats kind of where I was going with SS, though I didn't get as detailed.
        The part about welfare reform, thats a beast. Went on a call the other day, lady was 25 y/o 7 kids, 4 different dads. Something has got to be done about things like that. I can't even go into it or I will just go off on some rant.
        "I would rather live one day as a Lion, than a thousand years as a Sheep."

        Comment


        • #5
          Yeah but the only way we'all are gonna sort it out is by thinking up ways to fix it- reform it- and end it.

          I'm hoping the folks here will both offer and pick apart plans. We are a small group from across the spectrum. If we can't do it, there is no way Congress can.
          "Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince" - Unknown Author
          ______________________________________________

          "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." - Thomas Jefferson
          ______________________________________________

          “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.” - John Adams

          Comment


          • #6
            For Social Security, Bush was on the mark with his optional, partial-privatization proposal. It was the single biggest reason I supported him in the 2000 primary. Unfortunately, after 9/11 when Bush brought it up the Dems and media had a field day spouting off all sorts of lies and half-truths about the proposal.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by velobard View Post
              For Social Security, Bush was on the mark with his optional, partial-privatization proposal. It was the single biggest reason I supported him in the 2000 primary. Unfortunately, after 9/11 when Bush brought it up the Dems and media had a field day spouting off all sorts of lies and half-truths about the proposal.
              Kind of like what they are saying we're doing with healthcare.

              But, how's my plan sound?

              It's not perfect I know. People are going to take a hit regardless of how we fix it. I'm trying to figure out how everyone takes a minimum hit.
              "Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince" - Unknown Author
              ______________________________________________

              "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." - Thomas Jefferson
              ______________________________________________

              “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.” - John Adams

              Comment


              • #8
                I agree, though I feel welfare reform is a pipe dream. This country has become comfortable with cradle to the grave entitlements for others. If someone has a child out of wedlock or gives birth knowing full well that can't fend for that child, you know what, that ones on us, things happen. Giving them more and more money and benefits for continuing to kick out kids, that has to come to and end. Welfare I believe was noble in its concept, give people a hand up, not a hand out, that unfortunately has been lost somewhere.
                I guess whre i would start with everything is less government. As I have stated you have more freedom here than anywhere in the world. If you don't make it, hey i'm sorry. You had the oppurtunity.
                "I would rather live one day as a Lion, than a thousand years as a Sheep."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Dems and media had a field day spouting off all sorts of lies and half-truths about the proposal.
                  The Dems and the media lie, why I would have never thought that. Why they might even be telling lies today. Why maybe we're really not Nazis and racist.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by velobard View Post
                    For Social Security, Bush was on the mark with his optional, partial-privatization proposal. It was the single biggest reason I supported him in the 2000 primary. Unfortunately, after 9/11 when Bush brought it up the Dems and media had a field day spouting off all sorts of lies and half-truths about the proposal.
                    X2 - this waqs the way to go.
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                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by velobard View Post
                      For Social Security, Bush was on the mark with his optional, partial-privatization proposal. It was the single biggest reason I supported him in the 2000 primary. Unfortunately, after 9/11 when Bush brought it up the Dems and media had a field day spouting off all sorts of lies and half-truths about the proposal.
                      Lol, as if "lies and half-truths" aren't being spread now?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        How to reform everything.....

                        Well, if it is necessary to keep Social Security and the other stuff then...

                        For Social Security:
                        Set a change date, say Jan. 01, 2020. Everyone turning 16 from that point on will pay into there own Privatized Social Security. What you pay will be what you retire on. Maybe have an electable option to increase the amount you want to pay into it. It would be untouchable by the US Gov. This way, for those that do 401K's, etc... can be a little more bullish with it and maybe take some risk's to have a bigger retirement.

                        For Medicare:
                        Same as Social Security but with a little difference. Yes, it goes against what I stand for but it could be doable. For every $1 you put in, the Gov will put $0.50 in. Since healthcare costs do go up overtime and certain things will cost a pretty penny you could eat it up real quick. Money would be untouchable by the US Gov.

                        For Medicaide:
                        Since this deals with people who make so little it could be tackled with a tax.

                        For Taxes:
                        Do away with current Tax system. Go to an all around Flat Tax system. The SS and Medicare would be the only deductions from payroll. You could have a Flat Tax of something like 25% on goods/services. 15-20% would go to Feds and 5-10% would go to the States. It could work with better fleshing out.

                        For Healthcare:
                        Stop pre-existing conditions, allowed to go over state lines, remove it from employers, do lawsuit reform, cut down on red tape. OR, make all insurance Non-Profit.....don't shoot me

                        These are just some thoughts I have had for quite some time now. I believe they could work if you have the right people fleshing out all of the details.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          There is no way that two or three workers can pay enough money into Social Security to support one retiree. I don't know what the ratio is right now but that 3 to 1 number is coming soon. When SS started I think there were 19 workers paying in for every one retiree.
                          The conclusion is that there is no solution and no meaningful changes will be allowed to occur, due to politics, so the thing will run its course until it collapses.
                          When that happens, for people to survive, most will have to live the, what I call, the Walton way. Mulitiple generations in one house or property, taking care of each other, sharing in responsibilies, pooling resources and every family member assisting in raising the children. I think that would be a good thing.
                          The liberal politician has the only job where they go to the office to work for everyone but those who pay their salary.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SteveOKC View Post
                            How to reform everything.....

                            Well, if it is necessary to keep Social Security and the other stuff then...

                            For Social Security:
                            Set a change date, say Jan. 01, 2020. Everyone turning 16 from that point on will pay into there own Privatized Social Security. What you pay will be what you retire on. Maybe have an electable option to increase the amount you want to pay into it. It would be untouchable by the US Gov. This way, for those that do 401K's, etc... can be a little more bullish with it and maybe take some risk's to have a bigger retirement.

                            For Medicare:
                            Same as Social Security but with a little difference. Yes, it goes against what I stand for but it could be doable. For every $1 you put in, the Gov will put $0.50 in. Since healthcare costs do go up overtime and certain things will cost a pretty penny you could eat it up real quick. Money would be untouchable by the US Gov.

                            For Medicaide:
                            Since this deals with people who make so little it could be tackled with a tax.

                            For Taxes:
                            Do away with current Tax system. Go to an all around Flat Tax system. The SS and Medicare would be the only deductions from payroll. You could have a Flat Tax of something like 25% on goods/services. 15-20% would go to Feds and 5-10% would go to the States. It could work with better fleshing out.

                            For Healthcare:
                            Stop pre-existing conditions, allowed to go over state lines, remove it from employers, do lawsuit reform, cut down on red tape. OR, make all insurance Non-Profit.....don't shoot me

                            These are just some thoughts I have had for quite some time now. I believe they could work if you have the right people fleshing out all of the details.
                            Hey Steve, I know you mean well and thought it out, but none of that crap is going to work as long as 51% of the population is able to take from the other 49%.
                            The one's who f up their investments, make poor choices or whatever, will just vote for a democrat to use the law to confiscate from your investments.
                            We're just going to have to ride it out until the whole system comes down.

                            Oh, take the profit out of anything and see what happens. Quality, innovation, efficiency, all that good stuff goes away. What was that early experiment with profit/fruits of ones labor. Was it Jamestown or something?
                            The liberal politician has the only job where they go to the office to work for everyone but those who pay their salary.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tony.o View Post
                              Hey Steve, I know you mean well and thought it out, but none of that crap is going to work as long as 51% of the population is able to take from the other 49%.
                              The one's who f up their investments, make poor choices or whatever, will just vote for a democrat to use the law to confiscate from your investments.
                              We're just going to have to ride it out until the whole system comes down.

                              Oh, take the profit out of anything and see what happens. Quality, innovation, efficiency, all that good stuff goes away. What was that early experiment with profit/fruits of ones labor. Was it Jamestown or something?

                              Yeah I know, it is only a fantasy. Maybe my common sense is not so common sense or is messed up somehow, but my thoughts on the subject seem like they should be common sense. If I'm wrong let me know and I forget I ever had those ideals.

                              Comment

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