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  • On GITMO and Extreme Interrogation Techniques

    For the record, I am opposed to both the closing down of GITMO and the ban of certain Extreme Interrogation Techniques and the rendition program.

    Releasing terrorists to their 'host' nations is a ridiculous idea. The recidivism rate is ridiculous! How do you unlearn an ideology?! So now we can send them to Saudi Arabian Jihad Rehab, which the criteria to even attend the rehab is so absurd like "if you committed a violent act" you can not be a part of the rehab program. So, basically, you have a rehab center that is housing wannabes that have done nothing which is leading to "successful" numbers. OF COURSE IT WILL!! You are getting the Jihadi washouts! If I could choke Peter Bergen through the TV screen I would have done so a few hours ago when I heard him discuss this program in SA.... He defines the word 'dolt.'

    Here is where it is about to be a real eye opener for the new administration. Extreme Interrogation Techniques with proper questioning does and has worked. I dont believe you have to water board folks, but if you put them in stressful situations and threaten them with exile to a country that will tear them to pieces and THEN ask them VAGUE questions, to where they have to explain themselves and talk specifics. (which circumvents them from telling you what they THINK you want to hear)

    Stress Positions?! Are you kidding me?!?! I went through 3 months of continuous 'stress positions' and mind games and I am not psychologically scarred from it.( say I...) They are playing the system, and winning. al-Shihri is sitting in Yemen laughing at us! Abdullah al-Ajmi is too after he was released and turned around and blew himself and 7 others up in Mosul.

    Its not a joke folks (Administration), and if you think that the enemy is going to put you up in nice digs if YOU are captured, think again. They wont think twice from dispatching your head from your body...... WAKE UP!!!
    "Against the machinations of your enemies you can take defense, but against the stupidity of fools, the very gods themselves fight in vain" ~ Johann C.F. Von Schiller


    "Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons, gullibility, which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck."
    --Thomas Jefferson

  • #2
    You cant win the war on terrorism by riding a white horse. It takes a wolf to catch a wolf and Obama doenst have what it takes to get the job done plain and simple. His closing of Gitmo sends a clear message and it is not a strong one. We now look weaker to our enemies in a time we need to look stronger to squash allegations that our leader is weak.

    The more Obama I see and read about, the less and less confidence I have.
    This show is awesome, wrapped in supercool and smothered in bitchin. The only way it could be cooler is if he was riding a unicorn or something.

    M-11

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    • #3
      There are common misconceptions about Gitmo and the goings on there. There is not constant torture and the living conditions arent that bad. Closing Gitmo before figuring out what to do with 245 terrorists is not a good idea. Closing it period is not a good idea. But hey if the Messiah says these terrorists deserve to be protected by our awesome God given Constitution than it must be a good idea right?
      Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God (Matthew 5:9)

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      • #4
        Living conditions aren't bad... I love the fact that terrorists can throw bodily fluids at our military and they can't even touch their prayer mats! talk about absurd B.S. I mean the mentality of people who make decision has gone deeper into the gutter than the gutter goes!

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        • #5
          I don't believe Mr. Obama has the world, or military, experience to understand what's going on. Being that he was the junior senator from Ill I have to wonder if the people that influenced him in Chicago are still influencing him? Many were anti-gun and I assume anti-war for any reason. GITMO stories seem to show that the prisoners are being treated well, in fact probably better than the soldier that are in-country, and I fear that Obama is sending a message of weakness to the rest of the world. Remember, there were lots of folks, Americans and others, who thought it was wrong for us to be in WWII, and if we hadn't of intervened what would have happened?

          Hopefully, they will still try the bad ones and treat them accordingly if they are convicted, but letting the mastermind of 9 11 go home would be absolute insanity and you can bet he would attack again within a short period of time.

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          • #6
            President Obama may not be a wolf but he is a man of principles. It goes along the argument that you don't have to stoop to your opponents level to win. Just like in WW2, we did not need to open up concentration camps to beat the germans. Saying that we have morals does not make us weak. It says to the rest of the world that we are strong enough that we don't have to play dirty.
            I served at GTMO, there are good soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen over there doing a tough job. Why politicize it? It does not go against the troops if President Obama decides that we should use a different strategy. On september 10, 2001 how much political and military experience did President Bush have? In addition, Is it not the actions and reactions of past experienced politicians that got us in the position that allowed 9/11.
            Question - If you were a prisoner of war would you throw feces at your enemy? Code of conduct calls for american prisoners of war to use every means to resist there captors and escape at the first opportunity.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Metro637 View Post
              President Obama may not be a wolf but he is a man of principles. It goes along the argument that you don't have to stoop to your opponents level to win. Just like in WW2, we did not need to open up concentration camps to beat the germans. Saying that we have morals does not make us weak. It says to the rest of the world that we are strong enough that we don't have to play dirty.
              I served at GTMO, there are good soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen over there doing a tough job. Why politicize it? It does not go against the troops if President Obama decides that we should use a different strategy. On september 10, 2001 how much political and military experience did President Bush have? In addition, Is it not the actions and reactions of past experienced politicians that got us in the position that allowed 9/11.
              Question - If you were a prisoner of war would you throw feces at your enemy? Code of conduct calls for american prisoners of war to use every means to resist there captors and escape at the first opportunity.
              You are right, we didnt have concentration camps. We called them Internment Camps instead.

              GITMO is going to cause two things if closed.

              1) Civilian courts will take over the hearings of FOREIGN terrorists caught on FOREIGN soil. I believe that means that their jurisdiction is nill. Military tribunals, on the other hand, are a different story.

              2) Those detainees are either going to be released or kept in Uncle Sams back yard. This creates a whole slew of problems.

              Also, you are right that we, as service members, are supposed to resist capture. But last time I checked, AQ and the like dont have GITMOS or the like. Also, I dont believe they were signatories to the Geneva Convention nor the Hague Conventions. It ranks right up there with calling on Hamas to abide by a UN Resolution... Its like the blind leading the blind.

              When I was abroad I kept an extra bullet in my left breast pocket and a frag in my cargo pocket. I wasnt about to see if my captors were going to abide by article 82 of the GC....
              "Against the machinations of your enemies you can take defense, but against the stupidity of fools, the very gods themselves fight in vain" ~ Johann C.F. Von Schiller


              "Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons, gullibility, which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck."
              --Thomas Jefferson

              Comment


              • #8
                If I understand you correctly you are saying that the U.S. does not have to abide by the geneva convention, hague conventions or any U.S. civillian or military law when dealing AQ/Taliban. Basically, whatever code AQ/Taliban has is the one we will follow. I don't buy that. We follow our code. We don't let the socalled enemy determine the rules we play by. We are more powerful, have more resources, are smarter and hopefully have more determination to win.
                How do you manage to get through airport security? It's the ultimate paranoia that makes you think that you will be targeted by terrorists. The odds of you being in a terrorist attack are very low. You are more likely to be robbed, shot, hit by a train or fall out of a window. relax.
                Last edited by Metro637; 01-24-2009, 12:02 PM. Reason: grammar

                Comment


                • #9
                  On Clinton, I was in the Navy prior to 9/11. After President Bush came into office the Navy was trying to find ways to spend even less. We had bases that had no security at the gate after a certain time. Ships were going from inport duty every 3 days to inport duty every 8 days. The Military and President Bush did not see any enemies on the horizon so we were cutting spending even when Bush was in office.

                  GTMO - As an american taxpayer, I am concerned more about how my dollars are spent and who is getting them. My main prob with GTMO is that the vast majority of jobs in GTMO are occupied by Foreign Nationals. That is jobs that could be given to american citizens on american soil.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Capital_Defense
                    Wrong. No Military Tribunal convened solely be the authority of the US congress or president has a broader grant of jurisdiction than the US Supreme Court. IF US military judges, and prosecutors have jurisdiction than so does the Supreme Court (the name should say it all).
                    So, hypothetically, say a foreign combatant was caught on foreign soil and extradited to a military base on foreign soil. Does the Supreme Court have jurisdiction at that base?

                    I am not a law expert by any means, so I am genuinely interested. My thought would be that the Supreme Court would have already intervened at GITMO if they had the means to.

                    Also, I dont believe the DoD/IC will be willing to give up Top Secret information that is needed to convict some of the individuals being held... How do you suggest getting over that hurdle?
                    "Against the machinations of your enemies you can take defense, but against the stupidity of fools, the very gods themselves fight in vain" ~ Johann C.F. Von Schiller


                    "Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons, gullibility, which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck."
                    --Thomas Jefferson

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If I understand you correctly you are saying that the U.S. does not have to abide by the geneva convention, hague conventions or any U.S. civillian or military law when dealing AQ/Taliban.
                      Interesting viewpoint you seem to have.

                      What gives the Gitmo detainees protections under the Geneva Conventions, the Hague Courts, or any U.S. Civilian or military Law?

                      I'll give you a hint, it's not Citizenship, Combatant status, or Asylum laws...

                      If you produce the right documented set of laws that can be applied and reasonably expected to fit the Detainees situation, you wil the fight.

                      Of course, the Democratic party and all the Lawyers in Amnasty International have been unable to do so for the last eight years, but you might know something they dont...

                      M-11
                      “All men dream...... But not equally..
                      Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
                      but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
                      for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

                      TE Lawrence

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        M-11,
                        I did not state my views on detainees in that passage. My concern is more with our own society than with the Taliban, AQ or detainees. We can be civilized and humane and still fight and win. That is my viewpoint.
                        Outshined,
                        Did he lie to the sheep more than bush lied to the wolves. So that we were led into a fight that has been a drain on the taxpayer. Let me point this out to you in a more specific way. In GTMO, there are companies that run primarily on foreign labor. That means that instead of spending money on some liberal social program sponsored by democrats instead we spend money helping support the economy of the phillipines through cheap labor. Those dollars go two places corporations that may or may not be american and the foreign labor. I for one would prefer that money to be spent on improving the school system, job programs, small business loans and etc that would improve the infrastructure and actually strengthen this country financially.
                        The funny thing is that while we are busy paying out to build up GTMO foreign companies are rapidly buying up the U.S.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Metro637 View Post
                          In GTMO, there are companies that run primarily on foreign labor. That means that instead of spending money on some liberal social program sponsored by democrats instead we spend money helping support the economy of the phillipines through cheap labor. Those dollars go two places corporations that may or may not be american and the foreign labor.
                          I would like you to go in a bit deeper on this point you are making. There are foreign owned companies contracted out on every military installation. The military has been known to go with the lowest bidder....
                          "Against the machinations of your enemies you can take defense, but against the stupidity of fools, the very gods themselves fight in vain" ~ Johann C.F. Von Schiller


                          "Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons, gullibility, which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck."
                          --Thomas Jefferson

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php...75&printsafe=1

                            http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/cuba/workers.htm

                            These articles in no way represent my personal opinion, however it is a fact that the labor force in GTMO is primarily not american and americans are hurting for jobs now.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              trade ur bullets for flowers

                              Originally posted by Metro637 View Post
                              If I understand you correctly you are saying that the U.S. does not have to abide by the geneva convention, hague conventions or any U.S. civillian or military law when dealing AQ/Taliban. Basically, whatever code AQ/Taliban has is the one we will follow. I don't buy that. We follow our code. We don't let the socalled enemy determine the rules we play by. We are more powerful, have more resources, are smarter and hopefully have more determination to win.
                              How do you manage to get through airport security? It's the ultimate paranoia that makes you think that you will be targeted by terrorists. The odds of you being in a terrorist attack are very low. You are more likely to be robbed, shot, hit by a train or fall out of a window. relax.
                              You were in the Navy when the USS Cole got hit and you still have this sentiment? Amazing. Also, the reason for the last eight years you were more likely to be robbed, shot, hit by a train or fall out a window blah,blah blah is because of the Patriot Act and measures Bush took to keep attacks from occurring on US soil. That is a fact you won't hear the liberal media report. And it's dangerous because many americans like you belive a terrorist attack is not a true concern. That is one example of where irresponsible journalism and media outlets (LIBERAL) are endangering this country. Not reporting the true dangers that exist and not reporting how many attacks were stopped gives average blue collar type americans who watch sixth grade level news programs when they get home from work the idea that all is peachy keen. Being prepared and acting keeps us safe. Not closing down facilities like gitmo. A friend of mine at work retired military worked there for a few years and he has told me those guys are treated better and live better than our very own troopers out in the field fighting to keep us free. Politicans call water boarding torture and the funny thing is the very same technique is used by us on our own people training in special operations. If americans don't wake up there may not be a country left to regret burying our heads in the sand the next time. Remember Iraq and Syria have nuclear capabilities.
                              "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. The MARINES don't have that problem." ....Ronald Reagan

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