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  • A modest proposal ...

    We all know that there are people who just don't seem to find it within themselves to live by society's strictures and rules. It's odd because the modern nation state doesn't really require a great deal from it's citizens - essentially even the poorest can expect housing, cash payments, medical treatment and protection under the law. Really, nothing is expected of you in return, at least in my country. Just to respect the rights of others. Not too hard, one might think.

    And yet there are those who contribute nothing and take without thinking. They may steal from and harm others but if they are themselves the victims of such crimes, they expect treatment, protection and recompense. Clearly, in their heart of hearts, they no longer consider themselves part of society, part of the nation state.

    Hence my modest proposal. Anyone who is convicted of, and let's set the bar high here, say five offences whilst adults for which the potential sentence is ten years or more imprisonment, can now consider themselves outside the law. Outlaws if you will. As a fair return for living however they like, the protection of the state is now withdrawn. They don't have to pay taxes or serve in the military but they are equally no longer entitled to the protection of the law. So anyone can harm, imprison or kill them under any circumstances whatsoever and no legal penalty will accrue. They can take employment but if someone chooses not to pay them, they have no recourse. Though they would not be entitled to live in publicly funded housing, they could rent or buy their own housing if they wished. That said, since they would not have any entitlement to actually hold property, it would be a little pointless. They could be tried and imprisoned for crimes against the law abiding but that would be a risky prospect because they wouldn't be entitled to due process, release dates or even food in prison.

    I dunno. It just seems unfair to me that these rebellious spirits have to live by rules that obviously seem so unfair to them. What do you think?
    I'm a little bit waayy, a little bit wooah, a little bit woosh, I'm a geezer.

  • #2
    Agreed.

    Can we put it into effect yesterday?
    “The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed."

    "You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him."

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    • #3
      Sounds just about perfect. When do we vote?
      The All New
      2013
      BBQ and Goldfish Pond Club
      Sully - IAM Rand - JasperST - L1 - The Tick - EmmaPeel - Columbus - LA Dep - SgtSlaughter - OneAdam12 - Retired96 - Iowa #1603
      - M1Garand

      (any BBQ and Goldfish Pond member may nominate another user for membership but just remember ..... this ain't no weenie roast!)



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      • #4
        Originally posted by Cockney Corner. View Post
        We all know that there are people who just don't seem to find it within themselves to live by society's strictures and rules. It's odd because the modern nation state doesn't really require a great deal from it's citizens - essentially even the poorest can expect housing, cash payments, medical treatment and protection under the law. Really, nothing is expected of you in return, at least in my country. Just to respect the rights of others. Not too hard, one might think.

        And yet there are those who contribute nothing and take without thinking. They may steal from and harm others but if they are themselves the victims of such crimes, they expect treatment, protection and recompense. Clearly, in their heart of hearts, they no longer consider themselves part of society, part of the nation state.

        Hence my modest proposal. Anyone who is convicted of, and let's set the bar high here, say five offences whilst adults for which the potential sentence is ten years or more imprisonment, can now consider themselves outside the law. Outlaws if you will. As a fair return for living however they like, the protection of the state is now withdrawn. They don't have to pay taxes or serve in the military but they are equally no longer entitled to the protection of the law. So anyone can harm, imprison or kill them under any circumstances whatsoever and no legal penalty will accrue. They can take employment but if someone chooses not to pay them, they have no recourse. Though they would not be entitled to live in publicly funded housing, they could rent or buy their own housing if they wished. That said, since they would not have any entitlement to actually hold property, it would be a little pointless. They could be tried and imprisoned for crimes against the law abiding but that would be a risky prospect because they wouldn't be entitled to due process, release dates or even food in prison.

        I dunno. It just seems unfair to me that these rebellious spirits have to live by rules that obviously seem so unfair to them. What do you think?
        I also like the Starship Trooper model of citizenship.
        The thing is these people already pay no taxes and are now waiting for our governments next handout/stimulus check. It started out as a tax rebate until all the democrats whined about how unfair it was that some welfare broodmare didn't get a cut and now its nothing more than a giveaway with no care about what will happen down the road. The biggest problem I have with these people is that they can vote. Until the vote is taken away from the blood sucking leeches, western society will decline in all areas.
        What your proposing is basically a separation, which is what I've been in favor of.
        The liberal politician has the only job where they go to the office to work for everyone but those who pay their salary.

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        • #5
          I've got justhomp, 1042 and tony.o agreeing with me? That has to be a first!

          Really the post was motivated by my dealing with one particular person on that particular day. Normally I just accept that society is descending into anarchy due to the now universal attitude that "no-one is allowed to judge anyone [except the Police naturally] and no-one is responsible for their actions". I just let it wash over me. But there was this one fella on that day ...

          Fella is in mid fifties. He has been convicted of least one crime related to theft or violence each year since the 1960's (excepting years when he was in prison for more than a year, which are rare). He will almost always attack officers on arrest. Having dealt with him many times, he simply cannot see why he shouldn't steal stuff he wants from shops when he wants it (arresting him on this seemingly trivial basis is a "F*****g liberty" in his opinion). He of course lives on benefits in publicly funded housing. There are of course many, many like him. But the thing that really got to me was his most recent sojourn with us. In the midst of causing his usual ruckuss, he started shouting at the black members of staff at a shop " You (etc), you shouldn't have been allowed in the country". This far from unusual for him. And the thought just didn't leave my mind "You're a cancer in society. Wouldn't it be better for everyone, possibly yourself included, if you were dead".

          See, I can sort of, not really but sort of, respect the old school villains. You hate them, they hate you, but you can have a conversation with them. They don't fight with Police (as one once put it to me "No point in fighting the Police. You knock out one, they send ten. You knock out ten, they send a hundred" - not admirable, but common sense). If they're ripped or beaten up by their criminal associates, they don't phone the Police. They generally hold down jobs.

          I'm not saying I admire the old school but, mon Dieu, how can society continue to exist with this multiplying breed of bacteria who are are not merely entirely destructive but who actually expect society to facilitate their life-style?

          Any road, my idea will never happen so I may as well bid it a fond farewell.
          Last edited by Cockney Corner.; 12-04-2008, 08:52 PM.
          I'm a little bit waayy, a little bit wooah, a little bit woosh, I'm a geezer.

          Comment


          • #6
            Looks like someone was/is a fan of the "Out of the Ashes" series......
            The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

            "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

            "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

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            • #7
              Originally posted by LA DEP View Post
              "Out of the Ashes" series
              Sorry, I don't get the reference. My old china Wikipedia has something about abortions and the Holocaust but I don't see the connection ...
              I'm a little bit waayy, a little bit wooah, a little bit woosh, I'm a geezer.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Cockney Corner. View Post
                Sorry, I don't get the reference. My old china Wikipedia has something about abortions and the Holocaust but I don't see the connection ...
                The series is from the 80s/early 90s......end of the world Sci-Fi stuff.....the author suggested almost the exact same punishment for those 'outside the law'.......
                The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

                "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

                "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

                Comment


                • #9
                  I mean, you really have to respect some of the organized crime/mob guys, in a grudging way. Most of them started from the ground up, started out small, then fought their way to the big time. They usually have some sort of a legitimate income (business fronts, etc.) for which they pay their taxes/bills on time. Alot of them won't really fight the police too much, as they respect us for what we do. Now, those crappy career street criminals, thats a whole different story, they do nothing for anyone other than themselves. I agree with your proposal.
                  Want to start a website? I run Host Lonestar.
                  Texas Discussion blog about texas...forum as well

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by inveich View Post
                    I mean, you really have to respect some of the organized crime/mob guys, in a grudging way.
                    I'm reminded of a presentation I saw some years ago by a couple of US federales who were talking about the Witness Protection Scheme. One of the issues they mentioned was that when it first came into existence, it pretty much exclusively handled members of the Mafia. They really weren't a problem because they were integrated into society and could be left to their own devices. The new breed were former street gang members who had to be treated like naughty children and who would wreck their own accommodation if left alone.
                    I'm a little bit waayy, a little bit wooah, a little bit woosh, I'm a geezer.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cockney Corner. View Post
                      I've got justhomp, 1042 and tony.o agreeing with me? That has to be a first!
                      Hey, when you're right...you're right!
                      The All New
                      2013
                      BBQ and Goldfish Pond Club
                      Sully - IAM Rand - JasperST - L1 - The Tick - EmmaPeel - Columbus - LA Dep - SgtSlaughter - OneAdam12 - Retired96 - Iowa #1603
                      - M1Garand

                      (any BBQ and Goldfish Pond member may nominate another user for membership but just remember ..... this ain't no weenie roast!)



                      Comment

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