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  • Obama's Tax Scam is falling apart

    Obama's tax plans are coming up short. Heck, when the Boston Globe allows something like this to be published, you just know the man is spiralling downward.

    http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ed...stPop_Emailed7

    Seeing through Obamanomics

    By Jeff Jacoby
    Globe Columnist / September 14, 2008

    ALL THROUGH the spring and summer, opinion polls tracked a growing confidence that Barack Obama could handle the economy better than John McCain. Just before the Democratic convention in August, Gallup had Obama leading McCain on the economy, 54-38 - a 16-point margin. But now Obama's lead has nearly vanished. Gallup's latest numbers show the candidates nearly tied. Just 48 percent say Obama would be more adept at superintending the economy; 45 percent choose McCain.
    Looks like voters have started paying attention to Obama's economics.

    On Sept. 8, Fox News broadcast an interview between Obama and Bill O'Reilly that focused on taxation and the economy. Obama repeated his pledge to cut taxes for 95 percent of Americans, while raising taxes on the tiny fraction who earn more than $250,000.

    "That's class warfare," O'Reilly objected. "You're taking the wealthy in America, the big earners . . . you're taking money away from them and you're giving it to people who don't. That's called income redistribution. It's a socialist tenet. Come on, you know that."

    "Bill, Bill, Bill, Bill," Obama replied. "Teddy Roosevelt supported a progressive income tax." He acknowledged that he doesn't enjoy paying taxes either - "you think I like writing the check?" - but that "there are certain things we've got to do."

    His tax proposal, he explained, was a matter of civility:
    "If I am sitting pretty and you've got a waitress who is making minimum wage plus tips, and I can afford it and she can't, what's the big deal for me to say, I'm going to pay a little bit more? That's neighborliness." If that is Obama's rationale for making the tax code even more steeply progressive than it already is, it's no wonder voters are having second thoughts about his economic aptitude.

    "Neighborliness." Perhaps that word has a nonstandard meaning to someone whose home adjoined the property of convicted swindler Tony Rezko, but extracting money by force from someone who earned it in order to give it to someone who didn't is not usually spoken of as neighborly. If Citizen Obama, "sitting pretty," reaches into his own pocket and helps out the waitress with a large tip, he has shown a neighborly spirit. But there is nothing neighborly about using the tax code to compel someone else to pay the waitress that tip.

    Taxation is not generosity, it is confiscation at gunpoint. Does Obama not understand the difference?

    Perhaps he doesn't. Eager though he may be to compel "neighborliness" in others, he has not been nearly so avid about demonstrating it himself. Barack and Michelle Obama's tax returns show that from 2000 through 2004, when their adjusted gross income averaged nearly a quarter of a million dollars a year, their annual charitable donations amounted to just $2,154 - less than nine-tenths of 1 percent. Not until he entered the US Senate in 2005 and began to be spoken of as a presidential possibility did the Obamas' "neighborliness" become more evident. (In 2005-2007, they gave 5.5 percent of their income to charity.)

    Obama claims his proposal would lower taxes for 95 percent of Americans, but well over 43 million tax returns, one-third of all those filed, already reflect an income tax liability of zero. In fact, Obama says, his plan would eliminate income taxes for an additional 10 million taxpayers. What he is really proposing, therefore, is not tax relief but a bald transfer of cash - $1,000 per family, he pledges - from the wealthiest Americans to everyone else.

    In 1972, George McGovern advocated something similar - a $1,000 "demogrant" for every US citizen. Just last year, Hillary Clinton suggested that the government start off every new baby with a $5,000 savings account. Voters didn't take the bait when McGovern and Clinton offered it. Here's betting they won't take it now.

    Why not? Because you don't have to be rich to be skeptical when a candidate argues that the top 1 percent of taxpayers, who already pay 40 percent of federal income taxes, aren't being taxed enough. Nor do you have to be an economist to wonder about the grasp of a nominee who tells 95 percent of the public that they can have something for nothing. Obamanomics may look pretty at first glance. But voters are focusing more closely now, and they can see beyond the lipstick.


    It's kind of nice to see a liberal paper print something against the man and the plan.

    It is Socialism by any other name. Even if Obama wants to make it PC and call it "neighborliness" .
    "Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince" - Unknown Author
    ______________________________________________

    "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." - Thomas Jefferson
    ______________________________________________

    “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.” - John Adams

  • #2
    CAPITAL GAINS TAX
    MCCAIN - 0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.
    OBAMA - 28% on profit from ALL home sales. (How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.)

    DIVIDEND TAX
    MCCAIN - 15% (no change)
    OBAMA - 39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.')

    INCOME TAX
    MCCAIN - (no changes)
    Single making 30K - tax $4,500
    Single making 50K - tax $12,500
    Single making 75K - tax $18,750
    Married making 60K- tax $9,000
    Married making 75K - tax $18,750
    Married making 125K - tax $31,250

    OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
    Single making 30K - tax $8,400
    Single making 50K - tax $14,000
    Single making 75K - tax $23,250
    Married making 60K - tax $16,800
    Married making 75K - tax $21,000
    Married making 125K - tax $38,750
    Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!

    INHERITANCE TAX
    MCCAIN - 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)
    OBAMA - Restore the inheritance tax
    Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.

    NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA
    New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet.
    New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already)
    New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity)
    New taxes on retirement accounts
    New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries!!!

    You can verify the above at the following web sites:
    http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/e...008/index.html
    http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/iss...es..taxes.html
    http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes
    http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/p..._on_taxes.html
    http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-.../barack_obama/
    http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-...es/john_mccain
    Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by mrc27 View Post
      INCOME TAX
      MCCAIN - (no changes)
      Single making 30K - tax $4,500
      Single making 50K - tax $12,500
      Single making 75K - tax $18,750
      Married making 60K- tax $9,000
      Married making 75K - tax $18,750
      Married making 125K - tax $31,250

      OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
      Single making 30K - tax $8,400
      Single making 50K - tax $14,000
      Single making 75K - tax $23,250
      Married making 60K - tax $16,800
      Married making 75K - tax $21,000
      Married making 125K - tax $38,750
      Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!
      But, but, but...Obama and his supporters keep insisting NO ONE under 150K will pay taxes, how can this be? OH, they mean no one under 150K will receive an increase in taxes above the pre-Bush tax cuts, I see. So everyone will have their taxes increased, the rich will just get double whammied. They don't say that though, how deceiving.

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      • #4
        Barry "my Islamic faith" Hussein Obama (not Osama) is first, \ a lawyer. It's called "smoke and mirrors. It's first year law school.

        Sadly, the minions will fall for it - even in light of easy, digestible facts as posted above.

        Sad.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by 1042 Trooper View Post
          Barry "my Islamic faith" Hussein Obama (not Osama) is first, \ a lawyer. It's called "smoke and mirrors. It's first year law school.

          Sadly, the minions will fall for it - even in light of easy, digestible facts as posted above.

          Sad.
          Why knock the his name? What point does that prove? My talk about islamic faith? Make fun of those who are different huh? Great argument I remember when I learned that .. it was about 2nd grade .. fortunately for me and fortunately most of the world as well we all grew out of it by 5th grade.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by bldg0031 View Post
            Why knock the his name? What point does that prove? My talk about islamic faith? Make fun of those who are different huh? Great argument I remember when I learned that .. it was about 2nd grade .. fortunately for me and fortunately most of the world as well we all grew out of it by 5th grade.
            You must've been a pretty damn smart kid, the fifth graders I interact with on a daily basis are no where near as smart as that and still think we are killing the Iraqi's on purpose and that they are who "bombed" us. To a tinfoil hat wearer, you'd say, it's so easy, kids get it, well... I'm not even going to go there.

            Comment


            • #7
              Guess what. You are all going to pay more taxes in the future no matter who wins. The federal deficit is approaching $500 billion. Guess how the federal government makes money?
              And of course we could get into the argument about how the debt got that bad...
              So any politician that tells you you won't pay more tax is lying. regardless of party.

              I love that every year, the republican camp uses the same old card: "democrats will raise your taxes".
              And most of the public gets all wrapped around the axle about their hard-earned money being given to welfare.
              Take the time to see where most of the federal budget is spent. A ridiculously small amount goes to welfare. Or healthcare.
              Most to defense, actually. And isn't that something the republicans are "better" at? So be glad. Your increased taxes will be spent to improve a sector of the government that we should all support.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Taylor13 View Post
                You must've been a pretty damn smart kid, the fifth graders I interact with on a daily basis are no where near as smart as that and still think we are killing the Iraqi's on purpose and that they are who "bombed" us. To a tinfoil hat wearer, you'd say, it's so easy, kids get it, well... I'm not even going to go there.
                And this proves what? What does all the name calling prove? Does it prove that Obama will not be a good president? NO. Nor does you saying I must have been a smart 5th grader. At some point in life the people that move past this type of argument separate from the pack ... I hope one day you and 1042 will join us up here.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have a sense that McCain's opposition to the latest, massive rescue of the economy will doom him.

                  The Bush tax cuts did virtually nothing for me because I had to pay the Alternative Minimum Tax. My capital gains and dividends were taxed at 27%. That was fairly typical in high-tax states like California. And now that I have stock market losses, I will only be able to deduct $3,000 per year.

                  I am beginning to think that, since the young people support Obama, we should let them have him and pay for him. I am retiring. I need government benefits. So let the youngsters pay all the new taxes their hero will impose.
                  Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                  Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DAL View Post
                    I have a sense that McCain's opposition to the latest, massive rescue of the economy will doom him.

                    The Bush tax cuts did virtually nothing for me because I had to pay the Alternative Minimum Tax. My capital gains and dividends were taxed at 27%. That was fairly typical in high-tax states like California. And now that I have stock market losses, I will only be able to deduct $3,000 per year.

                    I am beginning to think that, since the young people support Obama, we should let them have him and pay for him. I am retiring. I need government benefits. So let the youngsters pay all the new taxes their hero will impose.
                    Yeah .. let the new tax payers pay for the bills that bush ran up .. Do not worry the current and new work force will work our butts off so the new taxes can pay off the terrible economic plans put into play in the last 8 years.

                    With all reality though do not worry. We , the young Americans, will be plenty resilient and will be willing to work off the debts of the worst run 8 years in American History.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bldg0031 View Post
                      Yeah .. let the new tax payers pay for the bills that bush ran up .. Do not worry the current and new work force will work our butts off so the new taxes can pay off the terrible economic plans put into play in the last 8 years.

                      With all reality though do not worry. We , the young Americans, will be plenty resilient and will be willing to work off the debts of the worst run 8 years in American History.
                      Sorry to disappoint you, but I have found that the "young Americans" we hire are, simply put, lazy. They think they are entitled to have everything handed to them. I worked 60-70 hours a week for most of my career, whereas today's employees balk at being in the office for 40 hours -- let alone actually working. It will do them some good to "work their butts off." I am tired of paying nearly 50% of my income in taxes (federal and state income tax, sales tax, property tax, etc.).
                      Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                      Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bldg0031 View Post
                        Yeah .. let the new tax payers pay for the bills that bush ran up .. Do not worry the current and new work force will work our butts off so the new taxes can pay off the terrible economic plans put into play in the last 8 years.

                        With all reality though do not worry. We , the young Americans, will be plenty resilient and will be willing to work off the debts of the worst run 8 years in American History.
                        Stick with computers, we don't need any "we, the young Americans", with your mentality.

                        You might want to do some research on economic policy and trends. It takes several years for any fiscal impacts of policy to take effect. Clinton got to ride on Regan's policy and Bush got to take the fall for the poor decisions of Clinton’s administration.

                        BTW, the President cannot MAKE policy or decisions that affect the financial prosperity of the country, blame Congress for the poor economy, they make policy. Oh wait, that would mean you have blame a democratically controlled Congress. Your right, it must be Bush’s fault.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sinned View Post
                          Stick with computers, we don't need any "we, the young Americans", with your mentality.

                          You might want to do some research on economic policy and trends. It takes several years for any fiscal impacts of policy to take effect. Clinton got to ride on Regan's policy and Bush got to take the fall for the poor decisions of Clinton’s administration.

                          BTW, the President cannot MAKE policy or decisions that affect the financial prosperity of the country, blame Congress for the poor economy, they make policy. Oh wait, that would mean you have blame a democratically controlled Congress. Your right, it must be Bush’s fault.
                          With my mentality? Whats that?

                          Yes, I have done some research on economic policy .. in fact have a degree in it. I understand. 6-7 years is plenty of time.

                          FYI .. If you read my posts I do hold Clinton plenty accountable.

                          I really liked the First G Bush. He did an excellent Job. I hate what Clinton did to win the presidency but Clinton also did some very good things while in office. However, I am far from a Clinton fan but to hand him all the blame is just silly.

                          The president and congress work together to help shape the economy. So Bush had plenty of time to help or hurt the Economy. Plus since we both agree it takes time for the economy to dwindle like it has who was running congress from around 96-2003 when all of these problems started? Democrats or republicans? Funny how your argument is going to work against you.

                          Now I find it funny that Bush got credit for creating jobs, helping small business, that his tax cuts would spur on the economy but now that those plans have proved to be ineffective and the stats used were false indicators it isn't the president at all. Funny how that works isn't it.

                          And yes. . some people in my generation do feel entitled but do not worry there are plenty of us willing to put in a full days work. Have no fear we will step up. My guess is the generation above you had similar complaints ..

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by sinned View Post
                            Stick with computers, we don't need any "we, the young Americans", with your mentality.

                            You might want to do some research on economic policy and trends. It takes several years for any fiscal impacts of policy to take effect. Clinton got to ride on Regan's policy and Bush got to take the fall for the poor decisions of Clinton’s administration.

                            BTW, the President cannot MAKE policy or decisions that affect the financial prosperity of the country, blame Congress for the poor economy, they make policy. Oh wait, that would mean you have blame a democratically controlled Congress. Your right, it must be Bush’s fault.
                            The democrats have only controlled congress for two years out of the eight that Bush has been in office. They do not have a veto or fillibuster proof majority either.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Those tax numbers posted above are bogus. Theyare contradicted by the sources that were cited at the bottom of the post.

                              From http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news...ion=2008061115

                              BREAKING DOWN THE NUMBERS
                              Here's how the average tax bill could change in 2009 if either John McCain's or Barack Obama's tax proposals were fully in place.


                              MCCAIN OBAMA
                              Income Avg. tax bill Avg. tax bill
                              Over $2.9M -$269,364 +$701,885
                              $603K and up -$45,361 +$115,974
                              $227K-$603K -$7,871 +$12
                              $161K-$227K -$4,380 -$2,789
                              $112K-$161K -$2,614 -$2,204
                              $66K-$112K -$1,009 -$1,290
                              $38K-$66K -$319 -$1,042
                              $19K-$38K -$113 -$892
                              Under $19K -$19 -$567


                              Also Obama does not call for increasing the dividend and long term capital gains taxes except on the wealthy (incomrs over 250k).

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