Police Officers Death & Disability Act

[Stormy]

Stormy, I am NOT going by hearsay on the VA hospital system but rather by personal experience. I have been to the VA a number of times and they have never performed up to minimum standards IMHO. It takes months to schedule a CT scan or MRI or even sometimes to see a specialist type. I had Kidney Stones very badly and was told that it would be 8 months before they could do Lipthotripsy on me. It took 10 months to schedule a simply Colonoscopy, and even then it was not done because the 'cleaning solution' was wrong and I ended up in severe pain. Even then it took all day to try and do anything about it and their first call was that I was just over-reacting to a little discomfort and unless I also had chills there was noting to worry about. I pointed out they I was wrapped up in a blanket because I was freezing at which time they looked at vitals again and then insisted I be admitted! I left and went to the civilian Dr then. No, I go to civilian hospitals now for medical care on my Medicare card as well as civilian Dr's where I am treated with care and respect and not as a piece of meat and a bother. As for being treated different because of this National Insurance card, not possible as that is illegal. It is also not the same as Medicaid at all as this is a Government insurance card which is the same thing that Congressmen and Senators and other Government employees carry that pay full benefits and not welfare. Medical facilities love them as they KNOW they will be paid. I find it rather insulting that you would even think of LEO's in the same class as the indigent.
As for national police, as you said, you are not a cop nor have you ever been a cop and it would take way too long to try and explain why and what is different in different regions of the USA here in this forum. The Police have ALWAYS been a type of Para-military organization because it is what works best, period.

If you read carefully, there is no where I insult a LEO by calling him indigent;

"...You speak of socialized medicine, yet you approve of a government issued ID card to be treated by any local medical provider. Yes, it's like Medicare, but more so, like Medicaid; for the poor and indigent. Do you think you'd have better treatment with this arrangement? I don't think so. You'd fall in line with all the homeless, and poor as they line up for their checkups. The economy has turned. Doctors post messages on their doors 'As of March, 2008, Medicaid will no longer be accepted'. Is this what you really want for your fellow brothers; To be turned away at your local providers doorstep?..."


'...Yes, it's like Medicare, but more so, like Medicaid; for the poor and indigent...'

You confirm the police is a para-miltary unit. That's what I said. Where is the disagreement? But, enough. I've tried to get my point across, but it falls on deaf ears. The dialogue in this forum always finalizes with 'you're not a cop, and therefore you don't understand'. I can only conclude, using your logic, that unless you've held a political office, you've no right to discuss politics.

So be it. Good luck with your Bill.

[robocop33]

Stormy, I am NOT going by hearsay on the VA hospital system but rather by personal experience. I have been to the VA a number of times and they have never performed up to minimum standards IMHO. It takes months to schedule a CT scan or MRI or even sometimes to see a specialist type. I had Kidney Stones very badly and was told that it would be 8 months before they could do Lipthotripsy on me. It took 10 months to schedule a simply Colonoscopy, and even then it was not done because the 'cleaning solution' was wrong and I ended up in severe pain. Even then it took all day to try and do anything about it and their first call was that I was just over-reacting to a little discomfort and unless I also had chills there was noting to worry about. I pointed out they I was wrapped up in a blanket because I was freezing at which time they looked at vitals again and then insisted I be admitted! I left and went to the civilian Dr then. No, I go to civilian hospitals now for medical care on my Medicare card as well as civilian Dr's where I am treated with care and respect and not as a piece of meat and a bother. As for being treated different because of this National Insurance card, not possible as that is illegal. It is also not the same as Medicaid at all as this is a Government insurance card which is the same thing that Congressmen and Senators and other Government employees carry that pay full benefits and not welfare. Medical facilities love them as they KNOW they will be paid. I find it rather insulting that you would even think of LEO's in the same class as the indigent.
As for national police, as you said, you are not a cop nor have you ever been a cop and it would take way too long to try and explain why and what is different in different regions of the USA here in this forum. The Police have ALWAYS been a type of Para-military organization because it is what works best, period.

[Stormy]

:
Originally Posted by Taylor13 View Post
Stormy, what'd be great is you get VA assistance, for being Local/State/County police.

Good God NO! We definitely DO NOT want to fall under the VA! Many reasons. One, there are not that many VA facilities around for all to be able to get to one. Secondly, you must PAY for services based on ability to pay. Most importantly the VA facilities are HORRIBLE! I know this because I am a vet as well and I have used the VA for some of my health care and the treatment is well below standard and when you go the the actual hospital, which is three hours away, you are treated like cattle and treated poorly. The VA is basically socialized medicine and something that you do not want to fall under. We need a simple ID card issued by the US Government that is accepted as an insurance payment IN FULL by the US Government at ANY local medical provider or facility, much like Medicare.
I also definitely do not think the Police should fall under the US Military. That is actually unconstitutional as the Feds do not have that authority except when declared by the US Government. The Feds also do not understand how each community operates and one standard does not fit all communities so it is very impractical.
Jim

robocop,

I'm not a LEO, nor do I pretend to be one.

I've been a VA patient many times. The doctors are competent, qualified, experienced and are as good as the ones which practice in the private sector. Yes, medical schools send their senior students to do internship at VA facilities. So do major hospitals in all cities who are associated with a medical school. Where's the problem?

I've had several members of my family scheduled with the finest surgeons, only to be told that an intern will operate under the guidance of that surgeon. This is done often. How else does a student learn the business of surgery unless on a 'real' patient? The horror stories you've heard of at the VA, are no different from the horror stories I've heard of in many hospitals. That's a fact of life. Being 'treated like cattle' is what many of us go through everyday in our lives, in whatever we do, why consider it an exception with the VA?

You speak of socialized medicine, yet you approve of a government issued ID card to be treated by any local medical provider. Yes, it's like Medicare, but more so, like Medicaid; for the poor and indigent. Do you think you'd have better treatment with this arrangement? I don't think so. You'd fall in line with all the homeless, and poor as they line up for their checkups. The economy has turned. Doctors post messages on their doors 'As of March, 2008, Medicaid will no longer be accepted'. Is this what you really want for your fellow brothers; To be turned away at your local providers doorstep?

As for the militarization of the police, I am against it. They should remain at the state level or below. But, we see the police have, more and more, become military units. A SWAT team resembles a military unit as much as a government issued military unit. It's tactics are military in style. The command structure is military. They have rank, and insignia. They salute their superiors. They march in cadence. They have color guards, and carry the standards. What am I missing here? If it quacks, it must be a duck. So, why not become a part of the Dept. of Defense, and get the benefits of the US government's medical programs. You'll not lose the community which you serve, because you'll still operate within that community. The only difference will be your marching orders will come from Washington, D.C., and what's wrong with that? You'll have Johnny McCain, who everyone loves, giving your orders through the Secretary of Defense. It's a win-win situation.

As for community standards, no one has yet described for me what they are, or how they differ from community to community. Is this privileged information?

As monkeybomb said, 'I have no dog in the race', because I'm not a cop. What I do have is my Congressmans hear. And we all know how much a Congressman loves to get votes on election day.

[Taylor13]

Good God NO! We definitely DO NOT want to fall under the VA! Many reasons. One, there are not that many VA facilities around for all to be able to get to one. Secondly, you must PAY for services based on ability to pay. Most importantly the VA facilities are HORRIBLE! I know this because I am a vet as well and I have used the VA for some of my health care and the treatment is well below standard and when you go the the actual hospital, which is three hours away, you are treated like cattle and treated poorly. The VA is basically socialized medicine and something that you do not want to fall under. We need a simple ID card issued by the US Government that is accepted as an insurance payment IN FULL by the US Government at ANY local medical provider or facility, much like Medicare.
I also definitely do not think the Police should fall under the US Military. That is actually unconstitutional as the Feds do not have that authority except when declared by the US Government. The Feds also do not understand how each community operates and one standard does not fit all communities so it is very impractical.
Jim

I stand corrected.

[robocop33]

Stormyu, as you stated, you are not a cop and you do not know how they work. I HAVE been a cop, in both the military, on the West Coast, the South, and I am very good and close friends now with LEO's here in Florida where I now live. While the principals are the same in Law Enforcement, the tactics and methods are very different. No, a National Police Force is not just a bad idea from the training and enforcement and administration levels, read the Constitution and Bill of Rights and you will notice that the Federal Government is actually not allowed to do this and it is not allowed. Additionally we DO NOT want to fall under the VA, many of us already are vets. As for one state paying for the benefits of another, you already do in so many ways it is not possible to list them all. The ONLY thing the Feds should be involved in is the Medical aspects. The only reason it would have to be Federal is so that Officers who move to a different area are still covered. I retired under disability in South Carolina and now live in Florida. Does that mean I would have to live only in SC to receive benefits?
For those who are shocked at 1042Trooper saying he does not have any medical, that is actually the norm. I was totally disabled and on the day of my retirement I have NO MEDICAL BENEFITS even for those injuries that I suffered in the line of duty from that point on. "I" and "I" alone am responsible for their payments under the terms of the Workman's Comp Settlement.
Now before you get all excited about my workman's Comp settlement let me tell you about that! MAx at the time was $100,000. I had to SUE in order to get the settlement as they offered $40,000 or 40% disability. BY LAW my attorney HAS to receive 1/3. They do this so no attorney can try and take more, at least that is why they said they did it. Now Workman's Comp is actually the City or County that you work for and in my case was the city. They do not want to give you any more than they absolutely have to and unless you are a virtual vegetable they are not going to give you 100%. I managed to finally get 95% as I was totally disabled and that was stated by all the Dr's including those that they had examine me. Now the attorney gets his 1/3 out of that. From the rest which "I" am supposed to get, they are allowed, again by law, to take back all the money they have paid me while I was out of work, or 2/3's of my weekly salary that I was drawing every 2 weeks as a paycheck. That left me with a total of $34,000 that I was able to put in my pocket after over 1 yr of my accident. In addition they also have the clause in there that at the point of agreement to this settlement they are no longer responsible for any medical claims, either related or unrelated to the injuries I sustained in the line of duty. Sounds horrible and that I was screwed right? Damn right I was screwed big time but guess what? I actually came out better than other Officers I have talked to over the years. THAT is why we need this Act passed EXACTLY as it is written. A lot of thought when into this and even the wording and every damn word is there for a reason. Yes we left out firemen, EMT's and other first-responders. It was done on purpose as it would be much harder to get this passed. We can get them AFTER we get this passed and use it as a precedence. We don't have anything in there about gay officers partners as well as wives either because it would screw up the Act and cause more infighting. We can get that done later after the basic Act is passed. You would be surprised at the people that have responded wanting for certain changes to be added. They are not there for a reason, we want this bill to be very tight, specific, and simple as possible and get it passed. Then we can come back and get amendments placed on it to cover others. Small step, small steps.

[robocop33]

1,000 a month? are you kidding...... I'm glad to see what we're worth. I guess thats why I pay alll of that money for all of that other insurance........ thats ok...... at times citizens get what they pay for!!!

Brother, That $1,000 monthly is in addition to any other compensation that we might have and would be totally taxfree. That is $12,000 a yr and is very helpful. Quite frankly I fully expect that that part of the Act would be thrown out. Congress typically will not give you everything you ask for and instead of them cutting any of the medical benefits this is something that they can toss out, sort of like giving them a bone to chew on while the important medical care is approved.

[robocop33]

Stormy, what'd be great is you get VA assistance, for being Local/State/County police.

Good God NO! We definitely DO NOT want to fall under the VA! Many reasons. One, there are not that many VA facilities around for all to be able to get to one. Secondly, you must PAY for services based on ability to pay. Most importantly the VA facilities are HORRIBLE! I know this because I am a vet as well and I have used the VA for some of my health care and the treatment is well below standard and when you go the the actual hospital, which is three hours away, you are treated like cattle and treated poorly. The VA is basically socialized medicine and something that you do not want to fall under. We need a simple ID card issued by the US Government that is accepted as an insurance payment IN FULL by the US Government at ANY local medical provider or facility, much like Medicare.
I also definitely do not think the Police should fall under the US Military. That is actually unconstitutional as the Feds do not have that authority except when declared by the US Government. The Feds also do not understand how each community operates and one standard does not fit all communities so it is very impractical.
Jim

[Stormy]

Stormy
i guess your an expert with your working law enforcement on the east coast and west coast as well as years with the Federal system.
Oh wait you don't have a dog in this fight..................

So what it sounds like your telling me say is you don't really know that much about it other than on paper it sounds good? But you like it so you will argue your point into the ground?

Apparenty you don't like my opinion.............. Its my opinion based on experience. I guess I got that going for me............

You're absolutely correct. I don't have a dog in the fight. Since you do, please explain yourself. You speak of experience in the Fed Task Force, and how it differs from what everyone understands, but fail to describe that experience.

Am I missing something? Oh well. OK, Monkeybomb, you win. You've called me out onto the mat because you're a cop and I'm not. . No mass. Nice chatting with you. Bye...Bye!

[Monkeybomb]

Stormy
i guess your an expert with your working law enforcement on the east coast and west coast as well as years with the Federal system.
Oh wait you don't have a dog in this fight..................

So what it sounds like your telling me say is you don't really know that much about it other than on paper it sounds good? But you like it so you will argue your point into the ground?

Apparenty you don't like my opinion.............. Its my opinion based on experience. I guess I got that going for me............

[Stormy]

No small town politics. I work for a large agency. I have worked on federal task forces. Trust me the mentality is not the same.

Please explain how different is the mentality. I'm sure many officers on this site would appreciate your experience related to working on a Fed Task Force, and what situations you encountered which keep you from joining a Federal Police Force.

What works as far as peoples expectations from Law Enforcement is vastly diffferent from Jersey to where I am. Lived there for a while. Not a bad place just different. If you were to switch the agencies in both states everyone would be unhappy.

Yes, please explain. Your experience is invaluable.

I would rather go without any insurance or disability than have an entirely federalized police falling under the DOD. Its socialism at its highest form. People in each community have a different expectation from law enforcement. You would lose whats good and unique about each agency. I would be willing to say there are very few officers that would want to have their agencies federalized. I would be willing to bet citizens would resist this at an even higher rate.

You're full of valuable information. Give it up. Tell us why you think nationalizing the police departments is 'socialism at it's highest form'? As for citizens resisting, I doubt it. They're glued to the TV watching American Idol. No time for politics, or what is happening in politics.

[Monkeybomb]

No small town politics. I work for a large agency. I have worked on federal task forces. Trust me the mentality is not the same. What works as far as peoples expectations from Law Enforcement is vastly diffferent from Jersey to where I am. Lived there for a while. Not a bad place just different. If you were to switch the agencies in both states everyone would be unhappy.

I would rather go without any insurance or disability than have an entirely federalized police falling under the DOD. Its socialism at its highest form. People in each community have a different expectation from law enforcement. You would lose whats good and unique about each agency. I would be willing to say there are very few officers that would want to have their agencies federalized. I would be willing to bet citizens would resist this at an even higher rate.

[Stormy]

Last I checked we pay for our own retirement with a matching amount from our agency. We pay for a large portion of our medical as well. If you were a business of 300 employees you may get a better rate than those with 25. Now if you have a large group say several hundred thousand you will get a much much better deal. simple economics. Nothing to do with a person from another state paying my benefits. Thats called socialism. Thats also why a national police force is a bad idea. The ideals and society from New Jersey are far different than Where i'm from. national police force would never work.........................its a bad idea from the start.....................

Monkeybomb, listen to me.

The fact you get medical insurance is a plus for your department. There are many, local, county, state that don't have a medical coverage for disability injuries in line of duty.

What I'm suggesting is to militarize all police, place them under the jurisdiction of the Dept. of Defense, and you'd all qualify to be under the Department of Veterans Affairs for your medical coverage.

What is this talk of 'ideals and society' from New Jersey so different from your's?? What's so different from law enforcement in New Jersey vs where you're from? I think you're holding on to small town politics, and don't want to lose that when your department comes under the jurisdiction of the Fed. That's what I think. Well, if you want a national medical disability insurance, it must come under the Fed.

[Monkeybomb]

Last I checked we pay for our own retirement with a matching amount from our agency. We pay for a large portion of our medical as well. If you were a business of 300 employees you may get a better rate than those with 25. Now if you have a large group say several hundred thousand you will get a much much better deal. simple economics. Nothing to do with a person from another state paying my benefits. Thats called socialism. Thats also why a national police force is a bad idea. The ideals and society from New Jersey are far different than Where i'm from. national police force would never work.........................its a bad idea from the start.....................

[Stormy]

There is already a death benefit from the Federal gov for a Line of duty death. But no medical.

That's right. No medical. And that's what I'm talking about.

The last thing we need is to federalize all Law enforcement. Where i work is Not LA or New York. How they police would'nt fly here. Much as how we police wouldn't fly there. Completely different worlds.

I'm not a LEO, nor do I pretend to be one. But in my opinion Law Enforcement is Law Enforcement, period, no matter how you 'police' or no matter how they 'police'. It's a matter of enforcing which codes applied to which jurisdictions.

I would much rather have a nationally covered retirement and medical benefits mandated for all LEO's.

So, you want one world when it comes to a national retirement and medical benefits package, but seperate world's when it comes to 'police' work? Am I interpreting your statement correctly? So, Mr. joe sixpack's tax dollars from one state, will pay for the medical injuries of a police officer from another state? Unless you militarize law enforcement, and place them under the Dept. of Defense, your plan won't fly. Speaking of flying.

[Monkeybomb]

There is already a death benefit from the Federal gov for a Line of duty death. But no medical. The last thing we need is to federalize all Law enforcement. Where i work is Not LA or New York. How they police would'nt fly here. Much as how we police wouldn't fly there. Completely different worlds. I would much rather have a nationally covered retirement and medical benefits mandated for all LEO's.