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  • Russia's Game-Changing Plan

    Get ready for a drop into 'mother' Russia. Serious stuff, folks.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Russia threatens to supply Iran with top new missile system as 'cold war' escalates
    Russia is deploying the threat to sell a "game changing" air defence system to Iran as a high stakes bargaining chip in its new "cold war" with America, The Sunday Telegraph has learned.

    By Philip Sherwell in New York and William Lowther in Washington
    Last Updated: 11:29AM BST 31 Aug 2008


    Russian President Dmitry Medvedev [right] speaks with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad during their bilateral meeting in Dushanbe on August 28, 2008 Photo: AFP/GETTY

    US intelligence fears the Kremlin will supply the sophisticated S-300 system to Tehran if Washington pushes through Nato membership for its pro-Western neighbours Georgia and Ukraine.

    The proposed deal is causing huge alarm in the US and Israel as the S-300 can track 100 targets at once and fire on planes up to 75 miles away.

    That would make it a "game-changer", greatly improving Iranian defences against any air strike on its nuclear sites, according to Pentagon adviser Dan Goure. "This is a system that scares every Western air force," he said.

    Senior US intelligence operatives believe that Russia is planning to use a stand-off over the S-300 to create a foreign policy showdown that would test the mettle of a new US president.

    Republican candidate John McCain has taken a strongly anti-Kremlin line on a series of international issues and backed Georgia's desire to join Nato. His Democratic rival Barack Obama has also indicated he supports Nato membership for Georgia.

    "The message from Moscow is very clear," said George Friedman, director of Stratfor, a leading US private intelligence agency. "They are saying if you don't stop meddling in our sphere of influence, this is what we are going to do.

    "Back Georgia and Ukraine for Nato membership and you'll see the S-300 to Iran. It is a very powerful bargaining chip and a major deterrent to US actions in the region. Moscow is playing very strategically on America's obsession with Iran."

    Moscow has been infuriated by the steady encroachment of Nato into the former Soviet bloc and the recent granting of independence to the ex-Serbian province of Kosovo against its wishes.

    After American condemnation of Russia's foray into Georgia, Moscow invited Syria's dictator Bashar al-Assad, a long-time US foe, to discuss military deals in a deliberate signal of how it could cause trouble for Washington.

    A senior US intelligence operative who recently returned from the Middle East said Russia is believed to have struck a tentative deal to sell the S-300 to the Islamic regime. There are reports that Russia has already moved some basic components for the system to its close ally Belarus, ready for possible transfer to Iran.

    "Moscow cannot simply threaten to strike the deal," the official told The Sunday Telegraph. "Iran certainly thinks it has a deal. And the Israelis believe that a deal has been reached but that they can still block it."

    The outgoing Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert is expected to pass that message on to his counterpart Vladimir Putin and President Dmitri Medvedev when he visits Moscow next month. Israel has already ended military assistance to Georgia in an effort to placate Russia.

    Russia has denied previous assertions by senior Iranians that a deal has already been finalised on the S-300.

    Dan Goure, a long-time Pentagon adviser, said: "If Tehran obtained the S-300, it would be a game-changer in military thinking for tackling Iran. That could be a catalyst for Israeli air attacks before it's operational."

    Dr Friedman said that if it became operational, it would effectively rule out Israeli air raids and seriously complicate any US aerial bombardment.

    The system would take up to a year to become operational. In the meantime, Israel would come under heavy domestic pressure to launch an attack on Iranian nuclear plants, which the West believes are part of a secret atomic weapons programme but which Tehran claims are for civilian energy.

    A senior Iranian military commander warned yesterday that any attack on Iran would start a major conflict. "Any aggression against Iran will start a world war," deputy chief of staff for defence publicity, Brigadier General Masoud Jazayeri, said in a statement. "The unrestrained greed of the US leadership and global Zionism... is gradually leading the world to the edge of a precipice."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...651516/Russia-
    threatens-to-supply-Iran-with-top-new-missile-system-as-cold-war-escalates.html

  • #2
    As you post that..

    The Dutch intelligence service, the AIVD, has called off an operation aimed at infiltrating and sabotaging Iran's weapons industry due to an assessment that a US attack on the Islamic Republic's nuclear program is imminent, according to a report in the country's De Telegraaf newspaper on Friday.
    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull

    Comment


    • #3
      Why would the dutch admit that they were about to secretly attack, but now we are going to instead? Do they like ruining surprises? Especially on a news site from Jerusalem. Why would you read that?! I call Propaganda!
      Last edited by exdrip; 09-01-2008, 01:21 PM.
      "Friendly Fire, isn't"

      Comment


      • #4
        US intelligence fears the Kremlin will supply the sophisticated S-300 system to Tehran
        Iran has been buying S-300 systems for the past 15 years. The fact that a dim-bulb reporter suddenly tumbled to this fact does not constitute an international crisis.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Seventy2002 View Post
          Iran has been buying S-300 systems for the past 15 years. The fact that a dim-bulb reporter suddenly tumbled to this fact does not constitute an international crisis.


          They have been selling them the s-300 PMUs which is a late 90s model. They now supposedly have acquired PMU-2s and attempting (and what Russia is threating to give them) S-300Vs...Like the Windows Vista of missle defense systems. I think this is bad news for Iran. Just makes them one step closer to becoming a smoking crater from Israel who already has their finger on the trigger..
          "Against the machinations of your enemies you can take defense, but against the stupidity of fools, the very gods themselves fight in vain" ~ Johann C.F. Von Schiller


          "Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons, gullibility, which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck."
          --Thomas Jefferson

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by GrndPnd0311 View Post
            They have been selling them the s-300 PMUs which is a late 90s model. They now supposedly have acquired PMU-2s and attempting (and what Russia is threating to give them) S-300Vs...Like the Windows Vista of missle defense systems. I think this is bad news for Iran. Just makes them one step closer to becoming a smoking crater from Israel who already has their finger on the trigger..
            Err, if we bomb Iran, what'll happen to us?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Taylor13 View Post
              Err, if we bomb Iran, what'll happen to us?
              Depends on your definition of "us".


              ------------


              This is nothing new. We had two tanks destroyed during the invasion of Iraq (2003) by the newest anti-tank rocket Russia has in it's inventory.

              The cold war never ended.
              “The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed."

              "You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him."

              Comment


              • #8
                :
                Originally Posted by Seventy2002 View Post
                Iran has been buying S-300 systems for the past 15 years. The fact that a dim-bulb reporter suddenly tumbled to this fact does not constitute an international crisis.

                Originally posted by GrndPnd0311 View Post
                They have been selling them the s-300 PMUs which is a late 90s model. They now supposedly have acquired PMU-2s and attempting (and what Russia is threating to give them) S-300Vs...Like the Windows Vista of missle defense systems. I think this is bad news for Iran. Just makes them one step closer to becoming a smoking crater from Israel who already has their finger on the trigger..

                --------------------------------

                30-year Anniversary: Tonkin Gulf Lie Launched Vietnam War


                Media Beat (7/27/94)

                By Jeff Cohen and Norman Solomon

                Thirty years ago, it all seemed very clear.

                "American Planes Hit North Vietnam After Second Attack on Our Destroyers; Move Taken to Halt New Aggression", announced a Washington Post headline on Aug. 5, 1964.

                That same day, the front page of the New York Times reported: "President Johnson has ordered retaliatory action against gunboats and 'certain supporting facilities in North Vietnam' after renewed attacks against American destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin."

                But there was no "second attack" by North Vietnam — no "renewed attacks against American destroyers." By reporting official claims as absolute truths, American journalism opened the floodgates for the bloody Vietnam War.

                A pattern took hold: continuous government lies passed on by pliant mass media...leading to over 50,000 American deaths and millions of Vietnamese casualties.

                The official story was that North Vietnamese torpedo boats launched an "unprovoked attack" against a U.S. destroyer on "routine patrol" in the Tonkin Gulf on Aug. 2 — and that North Vietnamese PT boats followed up with a "deliberate attack" on a pair of U.S. ships two days later.

                The truth was very different.

                Rather than being on a routine patrol Aug. 2, the U.S. destroyer Maddox was actually engaged in aggressive intelligence-gathering maneuvers — in sync with coordinated attacks on North Vietnam by the South Vietnamese navy and the Laotian air force.

                "The day before, two attacks on North Vietnam...had taken place," writes scholar Daniel C. Hallin. Those assaults were "part of a campaign of increasing military pressure on the North that the United States had been pursuing since early 1964."

                On the night of Aug. 4, the Pentagon proclaimed that a second attack by North Vietnamese PT boats had occurred earlier that day in the Tonkin Gulf — a report cited by President Johnson as he went on national TV that evening to announce a momentous escalation in the war: air strikes against North Vietnam.

                But Johnson ordered U.S. bombers to "retaliate" for a North Vietnamese torpedo attack that never happened.

                Prior to the U.S. air strikes, top officials in Washington had reason to doubt that any Aug. 4 attack by North Vietnam had occurred. Cables from the U.S. task force commander in the Tonkin Gulf, Captain John J. Herrick, referred to "freak weather effects," "almost total darkness" and an "overeager sonarman" who "was hearing ship's own propeller beat."

                One of the Navy pilots flying overhead that night was squadron commander James Stockdale, who gained fame later as a POW and then Ross Perot's vice presidential candidate. "I had the best seat in the house to watch that event," recalled Stockdale a few years ago, "and our destroyers were just shooting at phantom targets — there were no PT boats there.... There was nothing there but black water and American fire power."

                In 1965, Lyndon Johnson commented: "For all I know, our Navy was shooting at whales out there."

                But Johnson's deceitful speech of Aug. 4, 1964, won accolades from editorial writers. The president, proclaimed the New York Times, "went to the American people last night with the somber facts." The Los Angeles Times urged Americans to "face the fact that the Communists, by their attack on American vessels in international waters, have themselves escalated the hostilities."

                An exhaustive new book, The War Within: America's Battle Over Vietnam, begins with a dramatic account of the Tonkin Gulf incidents. In an interview, author Tom Wells told us that American media "described the air strikes that Johnson launched in response as merely `tit for tat' — when in reality they reflected plans the administration had already drawn up for gradually increasing its overt military pressure against the North."

                Why such inaccurate news coverage? Wells points to the media's "almost exclusive reliance on U.S. government officials as sources of information" — as well as "reluctance to question official pronouncements on 'national security issues.'"

                Daniel Hallin's classic book The "Uncensored War" observes that journalists had "a great deal of information available which contradicted the official account [of Tonkin Gulf events]; it simply wasn't used. The day before the first incident, Hanoi had protested the attacks on its territory by Laotian aircraft and South Vietnamese gunboats."

                What's more, "It was generally known...that `covert' operations against North Vietnam, carried out by South Vietnamese forces with U.S. support and direction, had been going on for some time."

                In the absence of independent journalism, the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution — the closest thing there ever was to a declaration of war against North Vietnam — sailed through Congress on Aug. 7. (Two courageous senators, Wayne Morse of Oregon and Ernest Gruening of Alaska, provided the only "no" votes.) The resolution authorized the president "to take all necessary measures to repel any armed attack against the forces of the United States and to prevent further aggression."

                The rest is tragic history.

                Nearly three decades later, during the Gulf War, columnist Sydney Schanberg warned journalists not to forget "our unquestioning chorus of agreeability when Lyndon Johnson bamboozled us with his fabrication of the Gulf of Tonkin incident."

                Schanberg blamed not only the press but also "the apparent amnesia of the wider American public."

                And he added: "We Americans are the ultimate innocents. We are forever desperate to believe that this time the government is telling us the truth."

                http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2261

                ----------------------------------

                Lyndon Johnson; 'For all I know our Navy could've been shooting at whales out there'
                Last edited by Stormy; 11-02-2008, 12:16 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Stormy View Post
                  Israel needs a reason to attack Iran. A reason. So, beware of a false flag incident. Boys and Girls, can we say Gulf of Tonkin? Yesireee, I knew we could.

                  --------------------------------

                  30-year Anniversary: Tonkin Gulf Lie Launched Vietnam War


                  Media Beat (7/27/94)

                  By Jeff Cohen and Norman Solomon

                  Thirty years ago, it all seemed very clear.

                  "American Planes Hit North Vietnam After Second Attack on Our Destroyers; Move Taken to Halt New Aggression", announced a Washington Post headline on Aug. 5, 1964.

                  That same day, the front page of the New York Times reported: "President Johnson has ordered retaliatory action against gunboats and 'certain supporting facilities in North Vietnam' after renewed attacks against American destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin."

                  But there was no "second attack" by North Vietnam — no "renewed attacks against American destroyers." By reporting official claims as absolute truths, American journalism opened the floodgates for the bloody Vietnam War.

                  A pattern took hold: continuous government lies passed on by pliant mass media...leading to over 50,000 American deaths and millions of Vietnamese casualties.

                  The official story was that North Vietnamese torpedo boats launched an "unprovoked attack" against a U.S. destroyer on "routine patrol" in the Tonkin Gulf on Aug. 2 — and that North Vietnamese PT boats followed up with a "deliberate attack" on a pair of U.S. ships two days later.

                  The truth was very different.

                  Rather than being on a routine patrol Aug. 2, the U.S. destroyer Maddox was actually engaged in aggressive intelligence-gathering maneuvers — in sync with coordinated attacks on North Vietnam by the South Vietnamese navy and the Laotian air force.

                  "The day before, two attacks on North Vietnam...had taken place," writes scholar Daniel C. Hallin. Those assaults were "part of a campaign of increasing military pressure on the North that the United States had been pursuing since early 1964."

                  On the night of Aug. 4, the Pentagon proclaimed that a second attack by North Vietnamese PT boats had occurred earlier that day in the Tonkin Gulf — a report cited by President Johnson as he went on national TV that evening to announce a momentous escalation in the war: air strikes against North Vietnam.

                  But Johnson ordered U.S. bombers to "retaliate" for a North Vietnamese torpedo attack that never happened.

                  Prior to the U.S. air strikes, top officials in Washington had reason to doubt that any Aug. 4 attack by North Vietnam had occurred. Cables from the U.S. task force commander in the Tonkin Gulf, Captain John J. Herrick, referred to "freak weather effects," "almost total darkness" and an "overeager sonarman" who "was hearing ship's own propeller beat."

                  One of the Navy pilots flying overhead that night was squadron commander James Stockdale, who gained fame later as a POW and then Ross Perot's vice presidential candidate. "I had the best seat in the house to watch that event," recalled Stockdale a few years ago, "and our destroyers were just shooting at phantom targets — there were no PT boats there.... There was nothing there but black water and American fire power."

                  In 1965, Lyndon Johnson commented: "For all I know, our Navy was shooting at whales out there."

                  But Johnson's deceitful speech of Aug. 4, 1964, won accolades from editorial writers. The president, proclaimed the New York Times, "went to the American people last night with the somber facts." The Los Angeles Times urged Americans to "face the fact that the Communists, by their attack on American vessels in international waters, have themselves escalated the hostilities."

                  An exhaustive new book, The War Within: America's Battle Over Vietnam, begins with a dramatic account of the Tonkin Gulf incidents. In an interview, author Tom Wells told us that American media "described the air strikes that Johnson launched in response as merely `tit for tat' — when in reality they reflected plans the administration had already drawn up for gradually increasing its overt military pressure against the North."

                  Why such inaccurate news coverage? Wells points to the media's "almost exclusive reliance on U.S. government officials as sources of information" — as well as "reluctance to question official pronouncements on 'national security issues.'"

                  Daniel Hallin's classic book The "Uncensored War" observes that journalists had "a great deal of information available which contradicted the official account [of Tonkin Gulf events]; it simply wasn't used. The day before the first incident, Hanoi had protested the attacks on its territory by Laotian aircraft and South Vietnamese gunboats."

                  What's more, "It was generally known...that `covert' operations against North Vietnam, carried out by South Vietnamese forces with U.S. support and direction, had been going on for some time."

                  In the absence of independent journalism, the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution — the closest thing there ever was to a declaration of war against North Vietnam — sailed through Congress on Aug. 7. (Two courageous senators, Wayne Morse of Oregon and Ernest Gruening of Alaska, provided the only "no" votes.) The resolution authorized the president "to take all necessary measures to repel any armed attack against the forces of the United States and to prevent further aggression."

                  The rest is tragic history.

                  Nearly three decades later, during the Gulf War, columnist Sydney Schanberg warned journalists not to forget "our unquestioning chorus of agreeability when Lyndon Johnson bamboozled us with his fabrication of the Gulf of Tonkin incident."

                  Schanberg blamed not only the press but also "the apparent amnesia of the wider American public."

                  And he added: "We Americans are the ultimate innocents. We are forever desperate to believe that this time the government is telling us the truth."

                  http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2261

                  ----------------------------------

                  Lyndon Johnson; 'For all I know our Navy could've been shooting at whales out there'
                  Take a look at the Six Day War of 1967. Israel didnt need much for a reason, just a precieved threat, to launch a preemptive strike to flatten the entire Egyptian Air fleet.
                  "Against the machinations of your enemies you can take defense, but against the stupidity of fools, the very gods themselves fight in vain" ~ Johann C.F. Von Schiller


                  "Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons, gullibility, which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck."
                  --Thomas Jefferson

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by GrndPnd0311 View Post
                    Take a look at the Six Day War of 1967. Israel didnt need much for a reason, just a precieved threat, to launch a preemptive strike to flatten the entire Egyptian Air fleet.
                    Correct. .
                    Last edited by Stormy; 11-02-2008, 12:18 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Stormy View Post
                      Correct. Only this war involves the US, completely and totally. Don't think the US won't go kicking and screaming at Israel for starting WWIII, under a false flag operation knowing what it will bring from negative world opinion. Unless, of course, the US doesn't give a crap about world opinion. If that is the case, then we will be grouped alongside our Russian comrades' latest adventure into Georgia.
                      The US wont say a thing when it really comes down to it. Look at how much pull AIPAC has. And when it boils down to self defense, Israel could careless what we think. The United States was against the War of 1956 and the Six Day War, yet Israel did their business.
                      "Against the machinations of your enemies you can take defense, but against the stupidity of fools, the very gods themselves fight in vain" ~ Johann C.F. Von Schiller


                      "Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons, gullibility, which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck."
                      --Thomas Jefferson

                      Comment

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