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  • Another Gw Posting

    Ok, let me get this straight-the temperature pattern is cooling but global warming is still valid?

    Reuters - Wednesday, August 20 05:18 pmLONDON (Reuters) - The first half of 2008 was the coolest for at least five years, the World Meteorological Organisation (WMO) said on Wednesday.

    (Advertisement)
    The whole year will almost certainly be cooler than recent years, although temperatures remain above the historical average.

    Global temperatures vary annually according to natural cycles. For example, they are driven by shifting ocean currents, and dips do not undermine the case that man-made greenhouse gas emissions are causing long-term global warming, climate scientists say.

    Chillier weather this year is partly because of a global weather pattern called La Nina that follows a periodic warming effect called El Nino.

    "We can expect with high probability this year will be cooler than the previous five years," said Omar Baddour, responsible for climate data and monitoring at the WMO.

    "Definitely the La Nina should have had an effect, how much we cannot say."

    "Up to July 2008, this year has been cooler than the previous five years at least. It still looks like it's warmer than average," added Baddour.

    The global mean temperature to end-July was 0.28 degrees Celsius above the 1961-1990 average, the UK-based MetOffice Hadley Centre for climate change research said on Wednesday. That would make the first half of 2008 the coolest since 2000.

    "Of course at the beginning of the year there was La Nina, and that would have had the effect of suppressing temperatures somewhat as well," Met Office meteorologist John Hammond said.

    "But actually La Nina is showing signs of moving towards a more neutral state."

    The weakening of the La Nina effect over the last few months could see the global mean temperature creep up again in the latter part of the year, he added.

    The past decade ending in 2007 was the hottest since reliable records began around 1850, according to the WMO. World temperatures are about 0.74 Celsius (1.2 F) higher than a century ago.

    The U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), a group of hundreds of scientists, LAST YEAR said global warming was "UNEQUIVICAL" and that manmade greenhouse gas emissions were VERY LIKELY part of the problem.

    The WMO releases its final figures for global temperature and ranking for 2008 in December.

    HMmmmm.....Temperatures are falling, but, up over a century which followed centruries of extreme cold...sounds kinda like a natural cycle to me.
    A Veteran is someone who at one point in their life wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America, for an amount up to, and including their life. That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today, who no longer understand that fact!

  • #2
    Originally posted by ray8285 View Post
    Ok, let me get this straight-the temperature pattern is cooling but global warming is still valid?

    Reuters - Wednesday, August 20 05:18 pmLONDON (Reuters) - The first half of 2008 was the coolest for at least five years, the World Meteorological Organisation (WMO) said on Wednesday.

    (Advertisement)
    The whole year will almost certainly be cooler than recent years, although temperatures remain above the historical average.

    Global temperatures vary annually according to natural cycles. For example, they are driven by shifting ocean currents, and dips do not undermine the case that man-made greenhouse gas emissions are causing long-term global warming, climate scientists say.
    "The deepest human defeat suffered by human beings is constituted by the difference between what one was capable of becoming and what one has in fact become."

    Comment


    • #3
      http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080821/...nland_glaciers

      At top of Greenland, new worrisome cracks in ice

      By SETH BORENSTEIN, AP Science Writer 34 minutes ago

      WASHINGTON - In northern Greenland, a part of the Arctic that had seemed immune from global warming, new satellite images show a growing giant crack and an 11-square-mile chunk of ice hemorrhaging off a major glacier, scientists said Thursday.
      ADVERTISEMENT

      And that's led the university professor who spotted the wounds in the massive Petermann glacier to predict disintegration of a major portion of the Northern Hemisphere's largest floating glacier within the year.

      If it does worsen and other northern Greenland glaciers melt faster, then it could speed up sea level rise, already increasing because of melt in sourthern Greenland.

      The crack is 7 miles long and about half a mile wide. It is about half the width of the 500 square mile floating part of the glacier. Other smaller fractures can be seen in images of the ice tongue, a long narrow sliver of the glacier.

      "The pictures speak for themselves," said Jason Box, a glacier expert at the Byrd Polar Research Center at Ohio State University who spotted the changes while studying new satellite images. "This crack is moving, and moving closer and closer to the front. It's just a matter of time till a much larger piece is going to break off.... It is imminent."

      The chunk that came off the glacier between July 10 and July 24 is about half the size of Manhattan and doesn't worry Box as much as the cracks. The Petermann glacier had a larger breakaway ice chunk in 2000. But the overall picture worries some scientists.

      "As we see this phenomenon occurring further and further north — and Petermann is as far north as you can get — it certainly adds to the concern," said Waleed Abdalati, director of the Center for the Study of Earth from Space at the University of Colorado.

      The question that now faces scientists is: Are the fractures part of normal glacier stress or are they the beginning of the effects of global warming?

      "It certainly is a major event," said NASA ice scientist Jay Zwally in a telephone interview from a conference on glaciers in Ireland. "It's a signal but we don't know what it means."

      It is too early to say it is clearly global warming, Zwally said. Scientists don't like to attribute single events to global warming, but often say such events fit a pattern.

      University of Colorado professor Konrad Steffen, who returned from Greenland Wednesday and has studied the Petermann glacier in the past, said that what Box saw is not too different from what he saw in the 1990s: "The crack is not alarming... I would say it is normal."

      However, scientists note that it fits with the trend of melting glacial ice they first saw in the southern part of the massive island and seems to be marching north with time. Big cracks and breakaway pieces are foreboding signs of what's ahead.

      Further south in Greenland, Box's satellite images show that the Jakobshavn glacier, the fastest retreating glacier in the world, set new records for how far it has moved inland.

      That concerns Colorado's Abdalati: "It could go back for miles and miles and there's no real mechanism to stop it."

      Comment


      • #4
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080821/...lting_arctic_1

        Melting Arctic Ocean opens new shipping frontier

        By RACHEL D'ORO, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 51 minutes ago

        BARROW, Alaska - Rapidly melting ice on Alaska's Arctic is opening up a new navigable ocean in the extreme north, allowing oil tankers, fishing vessels and even cruise ships to venture into a realm once trolled mostly by indigenous hunters.
        ADVERTISEMENT

        The Coast Guard expects so much traffic that it opened two temporary stations on the nation's northernmost waters, anticipating the day when an ocean the size of the contiguous United States could be ice-free for most of the summer.

        "We have to prepare for the world coming to the Arctic," said Rear Adm. Gene Brooks, commander of the Coast Guard's Alaska district.

        Scientists say global warming has melted the polar sea ice each summer to half the size it was in the 1960s, opening vast stretches of water. Last year, it thawed to its lowest level on record.

        The rapid melting has raised speculation that Canada's Northwest Passage linking the Atlantic and Pacific oceans could one day become a regular shipping lane. And there is a huge potential for natural resources in a region that may contain as much as 25 percent of the world's undiscovered oil and gas.

        But scientists caution that it could be centuries before the Arctic is completely ice-free all year round.

        Still, conservative estimates indicate the Arctic Ocean will be ice-free in the summer within 20 years, although some scientists believe that will occur much sooner.

        As it thaws, the receding ice has made ocean travel along Alaska's northern coast increasingly alluring, but ships can still be trapped by ice.

        Earlier in August, three oil industry vessels bound for Canada became stuck in ice about 60 miles north of Point Barrow. The Coast Guard sent the icebreaker Healy to help, but before it could arrive from 300 miles away, the wind shifted and pushed the ice apart, freeing the vessels.

        "They were able to get away," Brooks said. "The problem with this ice is it's very unpredictable."

        Because of such risks, the Coast Guard established temporary bases this month in Barrow, the country's highest-latitude town, and at the North Slope's Prudhoe Bay, the nation's largest oil field. The bases will operate for a few weeks while Guard officials evaluate the need for the agency's services.

        The Northwest Passage is also increasingly popular with tourists.

        Chuck Cross has been leading excursions to the North Pole with his Bend, Ore.-based Polar Cruises since 1991, and he's noticed a big change over the years.

        "It's amazing to me when I go to the pole how thin the ice is, huge open spots of water in some areas," he said. "Before, you spent more time getting there and more time in the ice. We'd have helicopters looking for breaks in the water for us."

        The thaw has added urgency to the race among neighboring nations to claim a piece of the North Pole's resources. The U.S. is compiling mapping data that could bolster any claims for drilling rights.

        Many countries have launched scientific expeditions, hoping to take advantage of a provision in international law that allows nations to claim rights over their continental shelf beyond the normal boundary of 200 nautical miles, if the claim can be supported with geologic evidence.

        The Coast Guard is concerned that the increasing volume of ship traffic brings greater potential for oil spills, lost boaters and other mishaps.

        "We have to ask ourselves whether we're prepared for these ships coming to our shores," said Mead Treadwell, who chairs the U.S. Arctic Research Commission. He testified in Congress this summer about the need to build new Coast Guard icebreakers to better protect traffic in its Arctic waterways.

        Before the Coast Guard opened its base in Barrow, the nearest station where ships could stop for fuel and provisions was Alaska's Kodiak Island, almost 1,000 miles away.

        Richard Glenn, an official with Arctic Slope Regional Corp., a Barrow-based company that represents the business interests of Alaska Natives, said the Coast Guard's arrival in his community is "like bread to starving people."

        "When everything goes wrong — fall-time storms, tragic loss of vessels, lost people on land — there's nothing that's ever been so far away than the Coast Guard."

        The town of 4,000 people has welcomed the agency and even supplied hangers for two helicopters.

        But the warming climate has also disrupted an ancient way of life for many in the region, particularly hunters who use the floating ice as platforms for hunting marine mammals like bowhead whales and walrus. The same ice is vital to survival of polar bears, which are the first species declared as threatened because of climate change.

        Snow also thaws much earlier each spring than in the past, meaning hunters can't travel as far along the tundra after it turns soggy. And the late arrival of fall affects weather patterns, creating dangerous sea currents and strong winds.

        To adjust, Arctic communities hold later hunts, take smaller whales and share their food with others who have less to eat.

        "It's affecting our hunting practices in more ways than one," said Harry Brower Jr., chairman of the Barrow-based Alaska Eskimo Whaling Commission. "If you take a step back and look at it, you definitely see the changes."

        The head of the Coast Guard, Adm. Thad Allen, carefully avoids the debate over climate change. It's too early to say what the Coast Guard's future operations here will be, but Allen is certain his agency will have a key role as the Arctic landscape is transformed by warmer temperatures.

        "I'm agnostic to the science and the debate about what the cause is," he said. "All I know is there's water where there didn't used to be."

        ___

        On the Net:

        http://nsidc.org

        http://www.uscgalaska.com/external/index.cfm?cid780

        http://www.polarcruises.com

        Comment


        • #5
          I say we put more air in our tires.
          The All New
          2013
          BBQ and Goldfish Pond Club
          Sully - IAM Rand - JasperST - L1 - The Tick - EmmaPeel - Columbus - LA Dep - SgtSlaughter - OneAdam12 - Retired96 - Iowa #1603
          - M1Garand

          (any BBQ and Goldfish Pond member may nominate another user for membership but just remember ..... this ain't no weenie roast!)



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          • #6
            Originally posted by 1042 Trooper View Post
            I say we put more air in our tires.
            I agree, we should. It is sound advice. Look it up.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by BigPat View Post
              http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080821/...lting_arctic_1

              Melting Arctic Ocean opens new shipping frontier

              ]
              Hows the antarctic doing????? I believe more ice than ever.
              A Veteran is someone who at one point in their life wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America, for an amount up to, and including their life. That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today, who no longer understand that fact!

              Comment


              • #8


                That was my point, evidence shows reduction in temp. but they still cling to GW is man made and an irrefutable fact. If it was man made there should be no dips, it should be a slow steady climb.
                A Veteran is someone who at one point in their life wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America, for an amount up to, and including their life. That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today, who no longer understand that fact!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ray8285 View Post
                  Hows the antarctic doing????? I believe more ice than ever.
                  Parts of antarctica have experienced anincrease in snowfall due to global warming. There have been large ice shelf collapses on teh antarctic peninsula though.

                  http://www.livescience.com/environme...ice-shelf.html

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ray8285 View Post
                    That was my point, evidence shows reduction in temp. but they still cling to GW is man made and an irrefutable fact. If it was man made there should be no dips, it should be a slow steady climb.
                    Actually scientists predict a trend of increasing temperatures over time, with some variability from year to tear caused by systems like El Nino and La Nina. The temperatures are going almost exactly as predicted....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BigPat View Post
                      Actually scientists predict a trend of increasing temperatures over time, with some variability from year to tear caused by systems like El Nino and La Nina. The temperatures are going almost exactly as predicted....
                      That would make it a natural cycle, not man made. I think we both agree GW is occurring, I believe it's just nature with little if any from man....even though we've gone over this before I can't remember what you believeddoh
                      A Veteran is someone who at one point in their life wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America, for an amount up to, and including their life. That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today, who no longer understand that fact!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BigPat View Post
                        I agree, we should. It is sound advice. Look it up.
                        But only after we nuke the whales and beat the little white seal pups to death and then invite PETA over for the BBQ to follow.
                        The All New
                        2013
                        BBQ and Goldfish Pond Club
                        Sully - IAM Rand - JasperST - L1 - The Tick - EmmaPeel - Columbus - LA Dep - SgtSlaughter - OneAdam12 - Retired96 - Iowa #1603
                        - M1Garand

                        (any BBQ and Goldfish Pond member may nominate another user for membership but just remember ..... this ain't no weenie roast!)



                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Time to bring it back again....

                          WASHINGTON - Crucial Arctic sea ice this summer shrank to its second lowest level on record, continuing an alarming trend, scientists said Tuesday.

                          The ice covered 1.74 million square miles on Friday, marking a low point for this summer, according to NASA and the National Snow and Ice Data Center in Boulder, Colo. Last summer, the sea ice covered only 1.59 million square miles, the lowest since record-keeping began in 1979.

                          Arctic sea ice, which floats on the ocean, expands in winter and retreats in summer. In recent years it hasn't been as thick in winter.

                          Sea ice is crucial to worldwide weather patterns, both serving as a kind of refrigerator and reflecting the sun's heat. Given recent trends, triggered by man-made global warming, scientists warn that within five to 10 years the Arctic could be free of sea ice in the summer.

                          Even though the sea ice didn't retreat this year as much as last summer, "there was no real sign of recovery," said Walt Meier of the snow and ice data center. This year was cooler and other weather conditions weren't as bad, he said.

                          "We're kind of in a new state of the Arctic basically, and it's not a good one," Meier said. "We're definitely sliding towards a point where the summer sea ice will be gone."

                          ___


                          Two problems I have with this. If man is the major cause why is the this only the second lowest level? If man is the major cause then it should be a steady decrease of ice with an occasional year of increase. Oh maybe it's because (my second issue) they only have records GOING BACK TO 1979!!!!!
                          A Veteran is someone who at one point in their life wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America, for an amount up to, and including their life. That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today, who no longer understand that fact!

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