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  • Ammunition accountability

    Today during work I was discussing with a friend my fear that once the anti-2A lobby realizes that they aren't going to achieve a nationwide ban on guns that they'll go after ammunition. Basically saying "Sure, have your guns if you want, but we aren't going to let you have bullets or the materials to make them". The legal argument being that while firearms may be protected under the second ammendment, the ownership of bullets ISN'T. Thus, esentially banning guns by making them useless hunks of metal with nothing to fire from.

    Apparently, there actually is a group that is way ahead of me on this one. They're advocating legislation named "ammunition accountability". What they want is for ammunition manufacturers to laser etch a "secret code" onto the back of bullets. Whenever someone buys that ammunition their information plus the secret code will be logged into a database. That way if they decide to commit a crime with the bullets that person can be linked to the crime via the database.

    http://www.ammunitionaccountability.org/

    So far 11 states have introduced "ammunition accountability" legislation.

    My favorite line is from the front page:
    Then when a potential criminal purchases a box of 9mm cartridges...
    I know criminals are stupid, but how many would really go out and buy ammunition they KNOW will link them to a crime? I think it might just be possible that a criminal will go about finding an ILLEGAL way to come into posession of such coded ammunition.

    By bullet I'm not sure if they mean the casing or the actual projectile, but if these codes are going to be etched onto the casing then you better start collecting your brass at the gun range if your state passes this garbage. I would hate for someone to make some reloads from my brass and then frame me for a murder or robbery.

    So there ya go... if we can't get rid of the guns lets get rid of the bullets. I wonder how these laws would hold up in court. Not well, hopefully.

  • #2
    I vote for eliminating the people that need to be shot... then I wouldn't need bullets... or a gun.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm speechless. I'll s h i t a laser etched brick if this legislation becomes laws.
      ...hunter of the shadows is rising...

      Comment


      • #4
        Let me see, criminal deface firearm serial numbers, so what makes them think they won't do that to the bullets or better yet what if they steal the gun and ammo in a burglary, it still doesn't match them to the gun or ammo. The police would have no way of knowing if this criminal stole the gun or used it in a crime, thus you come back to where we are now, you charge him with possession. So where does that put these gun lobbyists any farther ahead, it doesn't, it just means that someone was caught with a stlen firearm and it had etched bullets. These lobbyists are playing with themselves.

        Comment


        • #5
          They're already talking about doing it in Arizona.

          Boggles my mind, do people honestly believe criminals buy their weapons and ammunition from gun shops?

          The anti-gun crowd is finally figuring out how to destroy the 2nd without trying to remove it...
          “The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed."

          "You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him."

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          • #6
            I am all for rounding up all the anti-gun people and then we release them in say Camden, NJ and let them do some "close up" research!!! Or we just shoot them first!!! Life like target practice!!!!
            Common sense its not a common virtue...

            sigpic

            "The AR-15, Legos for grown ups."-Jwise

            "OCD with firearms can ensure your continued use of oxygen. "- Blackdog F4i

            1042 Trooper is my hero!!!

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            • #7
              Also, ammo is so darn expensive now as it is!!! Could you imagine what it would be if the manufactures had to laser etch each bullet??? I bet ammo would cost more then the weapon to fire it out of!!!
              Common sense its not a common virtue...

              sigpic

              "The AR-15, Legos for grown ups."-Jwise

              "OCD with firearms can ensure your continued use of oxygen. "- Blackdog F4i

              1042 Trooper is my hero!!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by insomniac View Post
                My favorite line is from the front page:
                "Then when a potential criminal purchases a box of 9mm cartridges..."
                That reads like they think there are two kinds of people in the world: themselves, and all us "potential criminals."

                Originally posted by tactical208 View Post
                These lobbyists are playing with themselves.
                Yep, and what's worse, they're patting themselves on the head at the same time. Whaddabunchamaroons.

                When are they going to catch on that gun control (or "ammo control") is not crime control?
                --
                Capital Punishment means never having to say "you again?"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hmmm… I wonder what the implications would be for shotguns and black-powder rifles?

                  I guess if this passes I can finally look my wife in the eyes and say “See, I was justified in buying ammunition in bulk!” and then stroke my canisters of ammunition.
                  ****I am NOT a LEO, I am NOT a Lawyer, and I am NOT a Defendant****

                  Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I read through their useless website. They want to code the actual projectile. The website reeks of being supported by whoever the manufacturer of the coding device is.

                    They are even using a proxy to block who the actual registrar of the website is.

                    Update: The people behind this are indeed the manufacturer of the coding equipment.

                    Ammunition Coding Systems (ACS) of Seattle, WA.
                    Last edited by DefenseResearch; 02-21-2008, 02:12 AM. Reason: additional info
                    ****I am NOT a LEO, I am NOT a Lawyer, and I am NOT a Defendant****

                    Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes, it's a strategy to destroy the industry and it won't assist in solving any crimes. It's not new, they attempted to do the same back in the 80s with the so called cop killer bullets where the legislation covered just about any bullet made. But Trooper swallowed the bait and stated in another post that the NRA supported cop killers.
                      Just like the rediculous spent cartridge data bases in states that have it, never has solved any crimes.
                      The liberal politician has the only job where they go to the office to work for everyone but those who pay their salary.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Can't get rid of the 2nd amendment, but you can make it damn hard to buy ammo.
                        “The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed."

                        "You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DefenseResearch View Post
                          Hmmm… I wonder what the implications would be for shotguns and black-powder rifles?
                          They only want to apply the law to handgun and "assault rifle" calibers. So shotguns and black-powder will be safe. I'm sure someone somewhere along the way will try to find a way to make them illegal or otherwise inaccessable, though.

                          Originally posted by justhomp
                          Can't get rid of the 2nd amendment, but you can make it damn hard to buy ammo.
                          That is the road I fear we will be going down soon. If they can't get rid of guns just make them so expensive that nobody except the rich can own them. Although, in this case, it seems as though the lobbyist group has a special interest (profit) vested in this legislature. I'm sure people wont care if they feel the end justifies the means.

                          I honestly don't understand why people want so badly to ban guns. Are there people out there who have guns that honestly aren't responsible enough to have them? Are there people who do terrible things with them that kill and affect lives? Yes, but why should I and others be punished for that?

                          There are PLENTY of people out there who are too irresponsible to have children but they end up having them anyways. We've all seen the consequences of irresponsible parents, either personally or in the news. It can be as much a tragedy as reckless gun handling.

                          Imagine the uproar if we tried to ban people from having children without first conducting background checks, permits, and classes. What an affront to fundamental rights THAT would be, even if it could save someone from potential harm and suffering.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by farrellsm77 View Post
                            Also, ammo is so darn expensive now as it is!!! Could you imagine what it would be if the manufactures had to laser etch each bullet??? I bet ammo would cost more then the weapon to fire it out of!!!
                            That's the whole point: Make ammunition so expensive that only the "elite" or government could afford to purchase it! Since these groups haven't had as much success as they'd like banning guns, they've just taken the track to make guns and ammunition too expensive, difficult or technically complex to purchase.

                            In California, recent legislation has outlawed all ammunition containing lead for use in hunting. We're now prohibited from using .22s, older (such as lever action) centerfire rifles or small gauge (28 or .410) shotgun ammunition since there aren't "green" rounds manufactured for purchase.

                            In a couple of years, semi-autos w/o the means to mark each cartridge fired with the gun's serial number are banned as "unsafe", even though the technology is held by only one person and it's already proven to be easily defeated.

                            Like "assault weapon bans" these laws do nothing to make society safer, but offer "feel good" illusions to those who know nothing about their true nature.
                            "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by pulicords View Post
                              In a couple of years, semi-autos w/o the means to mark each cartridge fired with the gun's serial number are banned as "unsafe", even though the technology is held by only one person and it's already proven to be easily defeated.

                              Like "assault weapon bans" these laws do nothing to make society safer, but offer "feel good" illusions to those who know nothing about their true nature.
                              Funny... the ammunition accountability people are the ones who own the technology to etch codes into bullets. It seems like these laws are less about "feel good" and more about interest in making money for these companies. Not that the politicians are getting any money or compensation for this as well. It's funny because I'm sure the citizens do feel good and feel safe in thinking that their politicians really are voting in their very best interest.

                              In California, recent legislation has outlawed all ammunition containing lead for use in hunting. We're now prohibited from using .22s, older (such as lever action) centerfire rifles or small gauge (28 or .410) shotgun ammunition since there aren't "green" rounds manufactured for purchase.
                              I haven't had any luck find anything, but what materials ARE approved, then? Are they as effective at stopping the animal as the lead bullets, or are they more prone to wounding and slow bleeding out? I don't understand the ban on older lever action rifles. I've seen lever action rifles in the exact same calibers as bolt actions.

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