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Gun Ownership caused the Virginia Tech Masacre

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  • JPR
    replied
    Originally posted by Columbus View Post
    You did that math backwards... so it's not even that bad.
    Thank you.........7 divided by 25 = .28 per year....
    Last edited by JPR; 11-01-2007, 02:20 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Columbus
    replied
    7 in 25yrs= 3.57 average per year
    You did that math backwards... so it's not even that bad.

    Leave a comment:


  • grog18b
    replied
    I like how they equate suicide with violence. Not too violent to take a handfull of pills, or sit in a car with a pipe from the exhaust. Agree, laws against suicide are just as stupid as liberals... and as we all know from recent posts, liberals ARE very good at fingerpointing...

    Leave a comment:


  • retired
    replied
    [QUOTE=Watchman;876845]Typical.

    Last time I checked it was already against the law to commit suicide. QUOTE]

    So what do you charge the person with that committed suicide?

    Leave a comment:


  • chktovegas
    replied
    Originally posted by ateamer View Post
    Guns are responsbible for crime like spoons are responsible for making Rosie O'Donnell fat.


    Now that's funny

    Leave a comment:


  • Watchman
    replied
    Is there a law that we can pass against this?
    Typical.

    Last time I checked it was already against the law to commit suicide. Passing a law to prevent siucide is as stupid as it sounds.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bowles
    replied
    YESTERDAY, 65 MILLION GUN OWNERS KILLED NO ONE
    Last edited by Bowles; 05-01-2007, 10:31 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Foxgguy2001
    replied
    Wow, I guess what what that kid said in the matrix is true... "There is no spoon" Guess he knew rosie was huge too.

    Leave a comment:


  • ateamer
    replied
    Guns are responsbible for crime like spoons are responsible for making Rosie O'Donnell fat.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kieth M.
    replied
    Guns are to murder....like....

    ...pens are to forgery...

    ...cameras are to kiddie porn...

    ...vehicles are to vehicular manslaughter...

    ...computers are to ID theft...

    ...male reproductive parts are to rape...

    ...yet no one seeks to regulate or ban the mere possession of those things ...Thank God!

    Leave a comment:


  • RR_Security
    replied
    Originally posted by Nightshift va View Post
    Liberals need to be consistent and point the blame finger back at themselves for this massacre.
    I agree. Same situation with the "Long Island Railroad massacre." The New York law effectively disarmed everyone except Colin Ferguson.

    This popped up on another forum where I hang out a lot. I wondered why the author's name was familiar, until I reached the end of the article: Dr. Kellerman is clinical professor of pediatrics and psychology at USC's Keck School of Medicine and the author of 27 crime novels and three books on psychology, including "Savage Spawn: Reflections on Violent Children" (Ballantine, 1999). His current novel is "Obsession"(Ballantine, 2007 ).

    I won't quote the entire article here, just a few really good points:
    "That is not to say that anyone who pens violence-laden poetry or lets slip the occasional hostile remark should be protectively incarcerated. But when the level of threat rises to college freshmen and faculty prophesying accurately, perhaps we should err on the side of public safety rather than protect individual liberty at all costs."

    "The best predictor of future violent behavior is past violent behavior, yet we regularly grant parole to murderers, serial rapists, chronically assaultive individuals and habitual pedophiles. Even when we do attempt to segregate low-impulse multiple offenders with effective tools such as with three-strikes laws, liberationist clamor never ceases."

    "Unless we confront the unpleasant fact that the brains of a small percentage of our citizens incubate dark, disturbed thoughts that can blossom into vicious behavior, we can look forward to repeats of last week's outrage."


    A DANGER TO SOCIETY

    Bedlam Revisited
    Why the Virginia Tech shooter was not committed.
    BY JONATHAN KELLERMAN

    Wow, a psychologist who believes "crazy people" should sometimes be involuntarily committed. How rare is that?
    I think I'll send copies of that to Rep. Carolyn McCarthy and the others who want to "blame the tool and not the user."

    Wow, look what I just Googled-up about McCarthy. She hasn't a clue!
    Carolyn McCarthy doesn't know what her new gun ban really bans.
    "Bad barrel shroud! Bad! Bad!"

    Leave a comment:


  • Nightshift va
    replied
    Liberalism is a mental disorder

    Originally posted by RR_Security View Post
    Yeah, there was one about donuts and Rosie, too, but I couldn't find it yesterday.
    It kinda surprises me that they don't blame cars for everything from drunk driving to teenage pregnancies. If it's logical that the only part of the car that's to blame is "the nut behind the wheel," why can't they connect the dots and--oops, sorry. "Logic" and "liberals" don't belong in the same sentence.
    Silly me.
    Liberals have no solutions only fingerpointing. But they can't have their cake and eat it too. The VA Tech situation was worse than it would have been because of liberal no carry laws on campus not worrying about how a nut got a gun. No rule or loophole or law would have prevented that. But a responsible trained mature ADULT student carrying concealed may have prevented furthur carnage. How many college students are war veterans on the GI Bill serving in Afghanastan or Iraq? How many Professors with prior service and firearms experience as well? How many offduty cops attend college on campus' today? It would have only taken one to stop that NUTBAG. Liberals need to be consistent and point the blame finger back at themselves for this massacre.
    Last edited by Nightshift va; 04-29-2007, 09:31 AM. Reason: spelling

    Leave a comment:


  • JPR
    replied
    This is a classic example of liberal journalism - cloaking gun control under the blanket of concern for suicide victims. I have inserted the translation from liberal propaganda to basic english.....see (italicized)

    1) Kramer, a former Calabasas and Westlake Village resident before he moved in with a woman in Sherman Oaks, reportedly is the seventh person to take his life at the gun range since the range opened in 1982. Six of the suicides have occurred since 1995...( 7 in 25yrs= .28 average per year)....2)Guns aren’t the cause of suicide...(subliminal suggestion=YES THEY ARE!]) That’s definitely not what we’re saying.....(That defintely is what they are saying) Suicide, unfortunately, has been around long before guns, and will be around long after we pass stronger gun laws to get rid of them. But guns make suicide, and all other types of violence, easy. That’s one reason why gun ranges are such likely places for these terrible incidents..(So far they have planted the notion that guns are the means for suicide and now they are going to illustrate how shooting ranges are the other side of the coin)..................3)Target ranges, in fact, are a common location for suicides and suicide attempts in California. In 2005, a man threatened to commit suicide at an indoor shooting range in Oceanside, and a 23year-old San Jose woman shot herself last month at an indoor Milpitas range. According to a Mercury News article about the event, the woman’s death was “at least the third suicide in the past decade at the range]...........An employee at Shooters Paradise in Oxnard, who requested anonymity, said on average there is one suicide at a shooting range every four to six years. The statistic, he said, was based on an insurance company study. Another employee said two people in 20 years had killed themselves at the Oxnard site...................(Let's start regulating shooting ranges to get rid of guns)4) Is there a law that we can pass against this? We could call for mental health background checks on everyone who rents a firearm at a range, if the range doesn’t already perform them. We could require shooting ranges to have a psychiatrist on staff to evaluate members or visitors......( Let's make shooting ranges unaffordable) But the bottom line of this problem is that there is no solution: as long as guns are involved, death shows up, too. (The bottom line______Guns are the evil enemy.)

    I urge everyone to save this post and use it as a learning aid for your children to show them how the leftist mainstream media brainwashes people into taking irrational positions on the issues. I will now provide some perspective to further illustrate the lack of sincere concern for suicide victims regarding the above article. Here are some facts. Compare the frequency of suicide at the shooting ranges with the following facts and ask yourself where the focus on suicide prevention in regards to location should be focused.


    TOTAL BAY AREA (KNOWN) SUICIDES IN THE YEAR 2005 - 622

    NEXT MONTH IS THE SEVENTIETH ANNIVERSARY OF THE OPENING OF THE GOLDEN GATE BRIDGE. AS OF 2/2007 1250 (KNOWN) SUICIDES HAVE TAKEN PLACE AT THIS LOCATION. (THAT'S AN AVERAGE OF 17.86 PER YEAR ) AND THE AVERAGE IS INCREASING.....2005= 23 (KNOWN) SUICIDES.......2006=34 (KNOWN) SUICIDES. COMPARE THESE AVERAGES TO THE SHOOTING RANGE AVERAGES.

    In addition, the bridge suicides could be easily prevented. The 4 ft railing could have a barrier added and/or nets could be installed. Money is definitely not an issue as the bridge is a major cash cow. The toll is currently $ 5.00 per car. It appears that some believe a barrier would spoil the view from the bridge. I wonder how many of these would like to shut down shooting ranges and confiscate firearms out of their heartfelt concern for suicide victims.
    Last edited by JPR; 11-01-2007, 02:22 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • bigislander72
    replied
    Originally posted by JPR
    I was at the gun range yesterday and some of us were discussing the recent tragedy. We noted an interesting observation:


    Although we all have heard of murder sprees at schools, none of us
    could recall ever hearing of a murder spree taking place at a gun range.
    Lots of suicides though.

    Ignore the anti gun comments in the article, I certainly dont agree with that part.

    Shooting Range Sees Seventh Suicide
    The Agoura Hills Target Range hasn’t seen just one suicide within its walls since it opened in 1982. When Robert Kramer shot himself there on August 18th, it was the seventh suicide that’s occured at the shooting range.

    Over the years, Robert Kramer, 57, periodically visited the Agoura Hills Target Range. Although Jim Davis, owner of the range, hadn’t seen Kramer for several months, he had known him for more than 15 years and was always happy to see his old friend come in to shoot.

    Kramer visited the range at 5040 Cornell Road on the afternoon of Fri., Aug. 18. After chatting for about 15 minutes and going to his car to retrieve a mutual friend’s phone number for Davis, Kramer returned to the indoor facility at about 3 p.m. He fired a few rounds at targets, then placed a 22caliber semiautomatic pistol in his mouth and shot himself. He died instantly.

    Davis said that Kramer was with another man, who fled the scene when he saw what had happened. Range members are not allowed to rent a gun and shoot alone. Two or more people must be present at all times, Davis said.

    Kramer, a former Calabasas and Westlake Village resident before he moved in with a woman in Sherman Oaks, reportedly is the seventh person to take his life at the gun range since the range opened in 1982. Six of the suicides have occurred since 1995.

    “I know that he was depressed,” said his girlfriend, who asked to remain anonymous. “He fired a few rounds, then turned the gun on himself.”

    She said Kramer had two sons, ages 15 and 18, who live with their mother.

    Guns aren’t the cause of suicide. That’s definitely not what we’re saying. Suicide, unfortunately, has been around long before guns, and will be around long after we pass stronger gun laws to get rid of them. But guns make suicide, and all other types of violence, easy. That’s one reason why gun ranges are such likely places for these terrible incidents.

    Detective Sgt. Tim Youngern of the Lost Hills Sheriff’s Station said gun range suicides are difficult to prevent.

    “They have all the tools they need,” Youngern said. “They aren’t accidental shootings, they’re deliberate acts.”

    Target ranges, in fact, are a common location for suicides and suicide attempts in California. In 2005, a man threatened to commit suicide at an indoor shooting range in Oceanside, and a 23year-old San Jose woman shot herself last month at an indoor Milpitas range. According to a Mercury News article about the event, the woman’s death was “at least the third suicide in the past decade at the range.”

    An employee at Shooters Paradise in Oxnard, who requested anonymity, said on average there is one suicide at a shooting range every four to six years. The statistic, he said, was based on an insurance company study. Another employee said two people in 20 years had killed themselves at the Oxnard site.

    Is there a law that we can pass against this? We could call for mental health background checks on everyone who rents a firearm at a range, if the range doesn’t already perform them. We could require shooting ranges to have a psychiatrist on staff to evaluate members or visitors. But the bottom line of this problem is that there is no solution: as long as guns are involved, death shows up, too.

    Davis said he strictly follows all gun laws and tries to determine if a customer might be mentally unstable. Background checks on criminal behavior and mental illness are conducted on members, and he will not rent a gun to anyone who seems ill or appears to have used drugs or alcohol. Customer cards kept at the range and detail members’ proficiency with firearms.

    First time visitors to the range must fill out paperwork and wait seven days to shoot. For those who want to purchase firearms, the scrutiny is even more intense. Due to previous suicides at the range, Davis and personnel at the Lost Hills Sheriff’s Station tried to develop a profile of those who might make such an attempt. But Kramer didn’t fit that profile.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by JPR
    I was at the gun range yesterday and some of us were discussing the recent tragedy. We noted an interesting observation:


    Although we all have heard of murder sprees at schools, none of us
    could recall ever hearing of a murder spree taking place at a gun range.
    Or a police station. There have been several cases where a deranged person attempted to go into a police station and started to kill people, but they never get more than a couple of us, if any, before it is all over.

    Leave a comment:

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