Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

For the states that have the death penalty.........

Collapse

300x250 Mobile

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • PavePusher
    replied
    Originally posted by ateamer View Post
    You'd be disregarding the law if you did that. The judge instructs the jury as to the law, and the jury decides if the evidence proves that the defendant violated the law. It is not for the jury to decide the law, just the facts. Circumstantial evidence is just as valid as direct evidence, and as retired stated, often much more reliable.
    Ummm... "Jury Nullification" for $500 please Alex....?

    Leave a comment:


  • ateamer
    replied
    Originally posted by wyofirebirdbaby View Post
    And who gets to decide if it's a reasonable doubt? A jury? If I was sitting on a jury during a murder trial and all they had was circumstantial evidence you'd never get me to do anything BUT doubt! I'm afraid I'm one of those people who has to have proof positive on most things in my life and to have the outcome of someone elses' life in my hands to decide if they live,die or are locked up forever you best give me concrete evidence or I'll vote not guilty til the cows come home.
    You'd be disregarding the law if you did that. The judge instructs the jury as to the law, and the jury decides if the evidence proves that the defendant violated the law. It is not for the jury to decide the law, just the facts. Circumstantial evidence is just as valid as direct evidence, and as retired stated, often much more reliable.

    Leave a comment:


  • Blueironfist
    replied
    Deleted...
    Last edited by Blueironfist; 09-10-2013, 06:08 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • pujolsfan146
    replied
    During my assignment to death row at pontiac we had two inmates executed when I was working. Their names were Free and Williams. That night both of them took the needle. When I showed up for work the next morning all the inmates in the condemned unit had black ribbons above their cell doors. They wanted to.show their contempt for us by refusing yard, meals, rec yard and all the other crap they get.

    I was a very happy camper. I sat around the whole shift and chilled with my buddies. Heck, I wished they protested every day!

    Leave a comment:


  • Dinosaur32
    replied
    As retired wrote, circumstantial can be far more convincing than direct evidence. Some use the analogy of a circle being closed around a suspect. When everything points at Joe, then it is reasonable to believe Joe did it. Remember, you must have an articuable, reasonable doubt as to guilt. You must be able to point out what in the case gives rise to the doubt.

    Leave a comment:


  • retired
    replied
    Originally posted by wyofirebirdbaby View Post
    And who gets to decide if it's a reasonable doubt? A jury? If I was sitting on a jury during a murder trial and all they had was circumstantial evidence you'd never get me to do anything BUT doubt!
    Circumstantial evidence is often more credible than direct evidence. Circumstantial evidence is directly related to scientific evidence such as, fingerprints, blood analysis, DNA, hair analysis, bite marks, etc. The list goes on and on. Direct evidence, or eye witness evidence is not as reliable as circumstantial evidence.

    Leave a comment:


  • wyofirebirdbaby
    replied
    And who gets to decide if it's a reasonable doubt? A jury? If I was sitting on a jury during a murder trial and all they had was circumstantial evidence you'd never get me to do anything BUT doubt! I'm afraid I'm one of those people who has to have proof positive on most things in my life and to have the outcome of someone elses' life in my hands to decide if they live,die or are locked up forever you best give me concrete evidence or I'll vote not guilty til the cows come home.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dinosaur32
    replied
    pvtbuddie...You have stated the grounds for a reasonable doubt.

    Leave a comment:


  • pvtbuddie
    replied
    Originally posted by Dinosaur32 View Post
    Guilt need not be found beyond all doubt. The American standard is beyond a REASONABLE doubt. Anyone can dredge up a doubt about anything.
    Yes, there is a difference between "I'm holding this stolen item because a man in a Santa suit came up and gave it to me," and "Santa came down in his sleigh and gave it to me." But if someone has a plausable explanation which hasn't been disproven, I see no reason to convict because he can't actually prove his story. Elsewise, the standard is no longer "innocent until proven guilty."

    Leave a comment:


  • Dinosaur32
    replied
    Guilt need not be found beyond all doubt. The American standard is beyond a REASONABLE doubt. Anyone can dredge up a doubt about anything.

    Leave a comment:


  • retired
    replied
    Originally posted by wyofirebirdbaby View Post
    ITurning it off or going to an independent station sticks to the 8th amendment for the people who want to use that but where was that 8th amendment for the victim?
    (LOL!)
    The 8Th is a constraint against the government, not the sadistic killers who roam in our society. Hopefully we are not the same type vicious animals they are.

    Leave a comment:


  • pvtbuddie
    replied
    Originally posted by LINY View Post
    I agree with the death penalty when there is absolutely no doubt, like with Charles Manson or with the guy who massacred the Coffee Shop in Washington and killed 4 Police Officers, or the guy who shot Senator Giffords.
    Do you mean to imply that convicting, and even imprisoning, a person is okay when there is some doubt as to guilt?

    Leave a comment:


  • wyofirebirdbaby
    replied
    Originally posted by 300mag83 View Post
    what happend to the good ole days when the death penalty only cost the price of a bullet. I dont remember the exact cost of leathal injection but its high. We could use the most awesome premium ammo around and it is still only a couple bucks at the worst. The other aspect is that we could buy a pack of bulk federal 22 LR rounds for 18 bucks at my local walmart and be executing for years to come for next to nothing. As a matter of fact if they let me be in charge of it that is the route I would take and I would fund it from my own pocket at 33.55 rounds per dollar now that is cost effectiveness. Why should they have a painless drift off to sleep death thats not how their victims died.
    I truly believe that volunteers would be fairly easy to find to carry out the firing squad type of execution for free if the ammo was provided for them by the state! That isn't cruel or unusual treatment as long as they can't run from ya!! One bullet in the correct spot is instant death!

    Were I to be a victim of a murderer I would certainly prefer to go very quickly and not be tortured for hours or days like a lot of victims are. Firing squad is more humane than torture. Some victims know they're going to die way before they do which is what's cruel but knowing WHY you're going to die lets you accept it and the victims don't get that usually! The murderer will!

    Why we have to treat killers with so much concern and caring is beyond me as they didn't do that for their victim and in my mind,when you kill on purpose you give up every God given right you ever had because you not only broke numerous commandments but you had no respect for the rights of others and deserve to be treated as you treated others.

    The ones who scream about the rights and humane treatment for killers have most likely never lost a loved one,especially a child,to one or they wouldn't scream so loudly! It's as easy to forgive the murderer after he's been put to death as it is while he's alive but the ONLY one who should be doing the forgiving was murdered and the life of a murderer isn't worth us supporting so he can continue to breathe and function. His victim may have been a productive part of society while he never would be but let's go ahead and pay for his housing while our country goes broke and takes away money we worked hard and honestly for!


    Just another flaw in our system that costs more than $$$$$$ ever will with the loss of just all the LEO's at the hands of a worthless scumbag,not even adding the innocent citizens and children that are lost daily! The victims' families suffer the loss forever while the offenders' family can still call,write and visit their family member! To me,that's cruel and inhumane treatment on top of the loss of their loved one! Seems like the wrong people are screaming about the rights for the wrong people!

    Leave a comment:


  • wyofirebirdbaby
    replied
    Originally posted by zeplin View Post
    Just turn you tv off if you don't want to watch it. I do that a lot these days.

    There used to be public executions, but then I reckon someone thought they were uncivilized or something... so they made them private executions out of the publics eye with only select witnesses.

    Yes we do have an 8th amendment that states no cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. That pretty much rules out my suggestion. DANGIT!!!!
    I'm all for public viewing. Same way that the President speaking is on all the channels (CBS<NBC<ABC) whether we want to listen to him or not. Turning it off or going to an independent station sticks to the 8th amendment for the people who want to use that but where was that 8th amendment for the victim?

    Whole towns turned out for hangings in the old days with a select few staying home. If we spend less on housing prisoners we could put it towards the national deficit.....right?? (LOL!)

    Leave a comment:


  • wyofirebirdbaby
    replied
    Originally posted by GLHS837 View Post
    This subject came up recently in my local forum, and the issue of executing innocents was raised. I said I would trade increased requirements for proof in death penalty cases such as confession/video/DNA, for a fast track in such cases. Those animals in CT, for instance, who killed the mother and daughters after raping the mom and the 12 year old? Those two should be put down right away. and yes, I would trigger the injection, pull the handle, whichever. They have forfeited the right to breathe the same air humans breathe. We have video, or DNA, or your confession, one appeal, then your done, have a seat in the chair.
    This I agree with 100%. I feel that if strictly circumstancial evidence is all there is then whatever has to be done to get concrete evidence needs to be done before that person even goes to court. Go ahead and hold them until evidence is found but circumstancial evidence should be thrown out completely. This is for cases that the death penalty is a possibility for the crime committed.

    The defense attorneys need to be less concerned about getting people off who are guilty and they know it and concentrate on less harsh sentences and prosecuters need to be more diligent in proving beyond a shadow of a doubt the guilt of someone and not use circumstantial evidence as proof! These days the saying of "if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck....." isn't like it used to be! If it looks and walks like a duck,I'd still like positive proof it's a duck and not a chicken that could pass for a duck! I'm sure you know what I'm trying to get at!

    When someone takes anothers' life I'm all for making sure it's who really did it before they are executed but after it's proven then the kid gloves need to come off and we need to use the death penalty. And the human rights thing? Their victim didn't get that consideration and the killer should lose his as well! All forms of legal execution are humanely done these days in my opinion except for the electric chair and is it even used anymore? Injection,hanging or firing squad I'm sure is 100 times more humane than what they did to their victim/s 99 out of 100 times!

    Public viewing? Yep,especially by the family of the killer,others who want to and all other prisoners so they can see what does happen when you don't shape up! In the old days prison was meant to be a deterrent by forcing all prisoners to do hard labor every day and then locked up the rest of the time. No one was on death row very long. If you got out you didn't want to ever go back! Today the drugs,the luxuries,the 3 meals a day,free bed and a roommate to converse with and not do one lick of work for and visits from friends and family seem very little like punishment to me and more like an extended stay at a bad motel with instructions on becoming a better criminal and ways to not get caught.

    IMO,true punishment also includes a lesson on why NOT to do it again! When my dad punished me as a kid I never again did what I got punished for in any way so it was also a deterrent. I learned quickly that when his punishment was given out that it was unpleasant enough that I only recieved it 3 times in my growing up. (Being grounded or having my allowance taken away wasn't the punishment recieved for serious infractions of his 3 rules......do not lie,cheat or steal!) I've never stolen anything,lied to authority figures or cheated in any way.....in school,on my partner,in games or on my taxes. My dad's been gone for 4 years now and I'm still scared of him!!

    Enough said on a subject I could go on about forever! I sure couldn't be President but I'd love to be in charge of the judicial system!

    Leave a comment:

MR300x250 Tablet

Collapse

What's Going On

Collapse

There are currently 4966 users online. 265 members and 4701 guests.

Most users ever online was 26,947 at 07:36 PM on 12-29-2019.

Welcome Ad

Collapse
Working...
X