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  • #46
    Originally posted by wyofirebirdbaby View Post
    ITurning it off or going to an independent station sticks to the 8th amendment for the people who want to use that but where was that 8th amendment for the victim?
    (LOL!)
    The 8Th is a constraint against the government, not the sadistic killers who roam in our society. Hopefully we are not the same type vicious animals they are.
    Retired

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    • #47
      Guilt need not be found beyond all doubt. The American standard is beyond a REASONABLE doubt. Anyone can dredge up a doubt about anything.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Dinosaur32 View Post
        Guilt need not be found beyond all doubt. The American standard is beyond a REASONABLE doubt. Anyone can dredge up a doubt about anything.
        Yes, there is a difference between "I'm holding this stolen item because a man in a Santa suit came up and gave it to me," and "Santa came down in his sleigh and gave it to me." But if someone has a plausable explanation which hasn't been disproven, I see no reason to convict because he can't actually prove his story. Elsewise, the standard is no longer "innocent until proven guilty."
        .
        .
        lib'-er-ty: the freedom given to you to make the wrong decision, based on the reasoned belief that you will normally make the right one.

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        • #49
          pvtbuddie...You have stated the grounds for a reasonable doubt.

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          • #50
            And who gets to decide if it's a reasonable doubt? A jury? If I was sitting on a jury during a murder trial and all they had was circumstantial evidence you'd never get me to do anything BUT doubt! I'm afraid I'm one of those people who has to have proof positive on most things in my life and to have the outcome of someone elses' life in my hands to decide if they live,die or are locked up forever you best give me concrete evidence or I'll vote not guilty til the cows come home.
            I'm old......that's all.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by wyofirebirdbaby View Post
              And who gets to decide if it's a reasonable doubt? A jury? If I was sitting on a jury during a murder trial and all they had was circumstantial evidence you'd never get me to do anything BUT doubt!
              Circumstantial evidence is often more credible than direct evidence. Circumstantial evidence is directly related to scientific evidence such as, fingerprints, blood analysis, DNA, hair analysis, bite marks, etc. The list goes on and on. Direct evidence, or eye witness evidence is not as reliable as circumstantial evidence.
              Retired

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              • #52
                As retired wrote, circumstantial can be far more convincing than direct evidence. Some use the analogy of a circle being closed around a suspect. When everything points at Joe, then it is reasonable to believe Joe did it. Remember, you must have an articuable, reasonable doubt as to guilt. You must be able to point out what in the case gives rise to the doubt.

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                • #53
                  During my assignment to death row at pontiac we had two inmates executed when I was working. Their names were Free and Williams. That night both of them took the needle. When I showed up for work the next morning all the inmates in the condemned unit had black ribbons above their cell doors. They wanted to.show their contempt for us by refusing yard, meals, rec yard and all the other crap they get.

                  I was a very happy camper. I sat around the whole shift and chilled with my buddies. Heck, I wished they protested every day!
                  Prov 17:17 A friend loveth at all times, and a brother is born for adversity.

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                  • #54
                    Deleted...
                    Last edited by Blueironfist; 09-10-2013, 07:08 PM.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by wyofirebirdbaby View Post
                      And who gets to decide if it's a reasonable doubt? A jury? If I was sitting on a jury during a murder trial and all they had was circumstantial evidence you'd never get me to do anything BUT doubt! I'm afraid I'm one of those people who has to have proof positive on most things in my life and to have the outcome of someone elses' life in my hands to decide if they live,die or are locked up forever you best give me concrete evidence or I'll vote not guilty til the cows come home.
                      You'd be disregarding the law if you did that. The judge instructs the jury as to the law, and the jury decides if the evidence proves that the defendant violated the law. It is not for the jury to decide the law, just the facts. Circumstantial evidence is just as valid as direct evidence, and as retired stated, often much more reliable.
                      Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. - Ronald Reagan

                      I don't think It'll happen in the US because we don't trust our government. We are a country of skeptics, raised by skeptics, founded by skeptics. - Amaroq

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by ateamer View Post
                        You'd be disregarding the law if you did that. The judge instructs the jury as to the law, and the jury decides if the evidence proves that the defendant violated the law. It is not for the jury to decide the law, just the facts. Circumstantial evidence is just as valid as direct evidence, and as retired stated, often much more reliable.
                        Ummm... "Jury Nullification" for $500 please Alex....?

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