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  • sotzo
    replied
    I combine 2 liters of water, whey protein, maltodextrin, and dextrose into a shake.

    Quickly digested protein with simple and complex carbs. The science behind it can be found here.
    http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/windowofopportunity.php

    Leave a comment:


  • Virus
    replied
    ProWriter, here is my easy to understand outline of the product and why it works. This is why I stated that I needed some time to write it up. I'm by no means a very good writer so it takes me more time.

    The Whole Story

    1. The muscle cell is worked out and is tired. It needs glucose and amino acids to recover and build.
    2. Insulin is the main muscle building hormone in the body. It opens the
    Last edited by Virus; 07-28-2005, 06:55 AM.

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  • Virus
    replied
    Originally posted by krj
    Alright Virus, you've been an interesting (and sometimes amusing) diversion over this past weekend, but it's time to move on. Some bottom lines:

    1. You're not who and what you claim to be
    2. Your "research" is flawed
    3. You have cut and pasted two of my posts now (one related to muscle glycogen replenishment post exercise, and one related to post exercise muscle soreness) - and yet you STILL seem to think that they are related
    4. There is nothing in the ingredient list link you posted, that would indicate that Physique can do this:



    5. AGAIN - you canNOT eat yourself out of muscle soreness
    6. You may or may not be a bit of a nut-job.

    I'm done. If they're inclined, others may take the time to respond to your posts.

    Or not.
    I just don't understand why you think I have some other agenda. I don't. I was just offering advice to subject matter that I know alot about and that is supplements, research and integrity of science research. I don't know everything about nutrition, nor do I claim to. I've had alot of friends and cowrkers over the years whom all had the same sketisism about products and some took it just to shut me up. Every single one of them had the same results. Little to no soreness after lifting.

    Stating that the research isn't credible or flawed is just rediculous. If you are in the field, you know these journals are extremely credible. Some are more known to the lay person, ie:The Journal of the American Medical Association or The Journal of the American Dietetic Association. The Journal of Applied Physiology isn't as well known to most people, but in the science field it's a very credible journal.

    I'm a very honest person. It's hard to understand this in a forum. The reason that I don't pursue a "Shaklee Business" or any other MLM business is I don't want the tax headache associated with it. ie:mileage, state taxes, etc. I make over 100k a year, my wife makes over 140k a year. That's good enough for us. I pay my $19 or $20 a year for membership just as I pay my $80 a year for membership to Costco.

    I've never attacked your credibility as from reading your posts, you appear to be right on the money with your statements. Personally, I prefer to keep an open mind to all aspects of my life, while still maintaning sketicism. My modo is, "trust, but verify". If I don't know something and it interests me, I learn everything I can about it.

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  • krj
    replied
    Alright Virus, you've been an interesting (and sometimes amusing) diversion over this past weekend, but it's time to move on. Some bottom lines:

    1. You're not who and what you claim to be
    2. Your "research" is flawed
    3. You have cut and pasted two of my posts now (one related to muscle glycogen replenishment post exercise, and one related to post exercise muscle soreness) - and yet you STILL seem to think that they are related
    4. There is nothing in the ingredient list link you posted, that would indicate that Physique can do this:

    Originally posted by Virus
    Another poster mentioned Shaklee Physique. Awesome, awesome product. It'll keep you from getting sore even after really pushing your lifting.
    5. AGAIN - you canNOT eat yourself out of muscle soreness
    6. You may or may not be a bit of a nut-job.

    I'm done. If they're inclined, others may take the time to respond to your posts.

    Or not.
    Last edited by krj; 07-25-2005, 10:41 AM.

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  • Virus
    replied
    Originally posted by krj
    Actually, it IS recommended that what you eat immediately after exercise is in the simple carbohydrate category - they raise blood glucose and insulin levels, and facilitate glycogen resynthesis.

    That doesn't mean the twinkie and soda variety of simple carbs though - more like honey, bagels, cornflakes, raisins etc. (high glycemic foods) - then spaghetti, oatmeal, bananas, grapes, oranges, rice, beans etc. (moderate glycemic foods) - then apples, applesauce, dates, milk, yogurt etc. (low glycemic foods).

    The remainder of carbohydrates that you eat post w/o (and continue to eat until your next workout session) should be found in mostly complex carbs (breads, cereals, rice, pasta etc.) and some simple carbs (primarily fruits and vegetables).

    Two big things to keep in mind:

    1. Immediately post-workout, it's most efficient to eat as soon as possible (hard to do for some people, because they can't stomach a lot of food for a while), and include both a combination of carbohydrates and protein.

    2. This whole glycogen resynthesis issue is important for everyone (as in "eating enough carbohydrates throughout the day to adequately fuel each of your workouts") - but the "immediately post workout" and "exact combinations of carbs and protein" is much more of an issue for those who are very fit and participate in very long and arduous bouts of endurance exercise.

    For most of us, just try to drink enough before, during and after each workout - and try to eat a healthy diet on a daily basis that's founded primarily on complex carbohydrates, with smaller amounts of lean protein and fat.
    By the way, I did find this post "VERY" informative. Top notch advise. It is the basis and foundation that Physique was founded on about 20 years ago.

    "If muscle soreness has ever kept you from exercising, then your body could use the benefits of Physique. Physique contains Bio-Build
    Last edited by Virus; 07-25-2005, 08:53 AM.

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  • krj
    replied
    I'm starting to hear the theme song from the "Twilight Zone" in the background while reading this guy's posts............

    Leave a comment:


  • Virus
    replied
    I'll also state this. If Amsoil, Shaklee or whomever's products I use cease to become the best, I'll have no problem changing product. Although not all products are have scientific evidence to back them up, alot do. Integrity in a company is crucial. I always go with the science wherever possible. After all, my wife is 29 years old, has a PHD from George Washington Medical School and a law degree from George Mason University. The Patent Office paid for her law degee. Me, I learn a great deal from her background with regard to science. She worked for 4 years at the National Cancer Institute in Frederick, MD. She worked there while attending GW. That is where she was able to have her papers published on "Lynn" which I posted a link to earlier. She received many awards from this paper as did the others who worked on it. It was a break through in cancer research and if you take the time to look it up, you will see tons of people now use her research as reference. I'm a Global Network Engineer. I design networks for our company and travel to Naval and Marine bases throughout the world and implement them. This year I was able to go to Hawaii 2 times, Guam, Okinawa and Pensacola twice. Slow year.
    Last edited by Virus; 07-25-2005, 08:42 AM.

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  • Virus
    replied
    Originally posted by ProWriter
    Well, now, I'm completely convinced: Virus is clearly just a consumer/end-user with absolutely no personal interest at all in Shaklee as a company, KRJ. You're way too skeptical these days, and you really shouldn't treat him like one of those obnoxious idiots who bombs Website boards, chat rooms, and on-line forums with commercial endorsements veiled as "conversations." Virus is just a very thorough individual who does his research before recommending any product he uses to strangers, about whom he cares enough to type volumes in support of the manufacturers he trusts. Is that so hard to believe?

    Virus, I'm in the market for several other types of products at the moment, that, as a consumer, surely, you use as well: I need a new mattress, refrigerator, and my tires are due for replacement, too. Forget about these skeptics here, OK? Please just post all the research you've done as an informed consumer, so that I might benefit from your thoroughness and get the best value for my money on a mattress, frig, and tires, too. Thank you.
    Tempur-Pedic Mattress is what I purchased. It was really hard to find any good reviews on them as most of the websites were selling it that rated it high. I did find a few good reviews on them that seemed unbiased. I had some good friends that had a Sleep Member bed which I also found a few good review sites. I was able to try the friends sleep member bed as well as visiting the store and found the Tempur-Pedic better for my personal sleeping habits. The wife agreed. The only complaints I saw on the Tempur-Pedic was that some people found that during summer months the mattress made them too hot. So far it's been great. I have their pillows as well. Make sure you purchase the Pillows according to your height and weight. For tires, I found a ton of usefull review sites, the best being tirerack.com. I personally liked the Michelon Pilots, although the price point is rediculous. Consumer Reports also had a very good write up on them. I deleted most of the tire links to clean the computer out. But, I found a wealth of info on different car forums that I frequent that supplied these great links. Refrigerators, unfortunately I don't have any information on. My home is only a year old and we purchased the most expensive refrigerator they offered. My mother-in-law has been selling appliances for the better part of 20 years and she was consulted before purchasing it. It's a top of the line GE. Coffee Maker, I chose a Presto Scandinavian. Costco had them for $35 and tons of people on many coffee forums recommended this drip maker because it reached 200+ degrees farenheit which is ideal for making coffee. I also purchased the Swiss Gold filter which is widely considered the best filter for drip coffee makers, making them taste very similiar to French Press. Appliances I generally choose Kitchen Aid. Many good reviews and good feedback from customers. Motor Oil, I use Amsoil. Amsoil has been shown time and again the best motor oil out their. www.bobistheoilguy.com has a wealth of information on this. Although I state Amsoil is the best, the truth is it's lead is paper thin these days as Redline, Neo and especially Mobil 1 have almost come abreast of Amsoil. Air filters, I chose Apexi because it provided the best flow/filtration rates. Oil filter, I chose Mobil 1. Mobil 1 filters are made by Champion Labs. I have numerous review sites that have tested a ton of oil filters and the Mobil 1's construction vs. PSI flow rates always seem to come out on top. Stone manufacturer for my $40,000 patio I just had done was EPHenry. EPHenry consistantly puts out superior looking stone with a warranty that can't be matched. For childrens car seat I chose Britax. Again lots of great reviews from review sites and customer feedback. Radar Detector, well I chose a Valentine One. This is a tough choice however as the Escort X50 and Bel RX65 are really abreast of the V1. Fortunately, I had 2 cowokers once of which had the RX65 and the other had an X50. I purchased the V1 and tested them myself in real world experiences. I found V1 better in off Axis detection and it's Laser Detection unmatched. It also fit better in my car and had an available remote display. You can't beat those arrows. There are several review sites such as www.speedzones.com, www.radarbusters.com and www.radartest.com. For home theater stuff, this is more difficult as the sky is the limit on prices. There are literally hundreds of review sites and many unbiased review sites. Great forums as well. I chose the Pioneer Elite 56TXi for my Receiver and the Pioneer Elite 59AVi for my DVD player. I have Mirage Omni speakers. Very subjective speakers. You either like them or not. Lastly I decided based on the before mentioned review sites and especially www.avsforum.com's customer feedback, I purchased a 65" Mitsubishi RPTV. Being anal as I am, I had it ISF calibrated at a cost of $500 after it was a month old to get the best picture possible from the television. RPTV may be old, but after it's been ISF calibrated, their is no better HD picture. Only RPTV's can display pure black. DLP's have done a really good job catching up and have a much better field of view with no burn in to worry about. Plasma, well they just plain stink. I install plasma's at all of my companies sites and they always burn in, even if the picuture continuously moves. Real honest people on that board. I would love to discuss any of these topics with anyone here, I will point you to the forums that are appropriate for this type of discussion and we can discuss this at length. If I can learn something from someone else more knowledgeable, I only become a better more informed consumer. Like I said, I am anal about just about all products purchased.
    Last edited by Virus; 07-25-2005, 08:33 AM.

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  • PTI
    replied
    Pink Caddy stocked full of Mary Kay vitamin supplements=Chick magnet Not that I'm endorsing Mary Kay or anything thats just what I've read in some studies I saw on the net.

    Leave a comment:


  • krj
    replied
    Originally posted by PTI
    I hear Mary-Kay makes a good vitamin supplement! And I'm not just saying that because I want a pink Cadillac
    PTI you didn't strike me as a pink Cadillac kinda guy - not that there's anything wrong with that.

    Leave a comment:


  • krj
    replied
    [QUOTE=ProWriter] you really shouldn't treat him like one of those obnoxious idiots who bombs Website boards, chat rooms, and on-line forums with commercial endorsements veiled as "conversations." QUOTE]

    OK, that makes sense. I don't really visit many of those sites, and didn't realize that this practice was commonplace.

    Leave a comment:


  • PTI
    replied
    I hear Mary-Kay makes a good vitamin supplement! And I'm not just saying that because I want a pink Cadillac

    Leave a comment:


  • ProWriter
    replied
    Well, now, I'm completely convinced: Virus is clearly just a consumer/end-user with absolutely no personal interest at all in Shaklee as a company, KRJ. You're way too skeptical these days, and you really shouldn't treat him like one of those obnoxious idiots who bombs Website boards, chat rooms, and on-line forums with commercial endorsements veiled as "conversations." Virus is just a very thorough individual who does his research before recommending any product he uses to strangers, about whom he cares enough to type volumes in support of the manufacturers he trusts. Is that so hard to believe?

    Virus, I'm in the market for several other types of products at the moment, that, as a consumer, surely, you use as well: I need a new mattress, refrigerator, and my tires are due for replacement, too. Forget about these skeptics here, OK? Please just post all the research you've done as an informed consumer, so that I might benefit from your thoroughness and get the best value for my money on a mattress, frig, and tires, too. Thank you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Virus
    replied
    Originally posted by krj
    Just couldn't leave well enough alone, could ya?

    I'm not going to look up the published studies that you cited, because I am certain that they are as comprehensively and meticulously researched as the FIRST one you cited. And by the way - Looft-Wilson, Patterson and Wittam are more examples of those "prolific researchers" I was talking about earlier (but not to forget our friend Jensen, who is also cited again in one of your two study references).

    VIRUS QUOTE: I'm just anal. I apologise if I offended anyone. My intentions were good and just wanted others to benefit from the research I had done on my own time: QUOTE

    I don't know what your intentions were, and I don't know who or what you are - and I don't take offense to anything anyone has to say of a personal nature on an internet forum.

    But nothing you have said in the Health and Fitness section has added up - not your claims of "awesome awesome products that prevent post-workout soreness", your so-called research (that is not only unrelated to your claims, but is also highly suspect in its' implementation and results), your steadfast determination to defend a company that (from all appearances) seems to be doing quite well without your vehement loyalty, your "broken record" posts of "buy it and return it if you don't like it" - but geeze, I'm just a consumer, not a distributor - REALLY!

    Anyone who gives the APPEARANCE of unbiased opinion, presents obviously WRONG information as factual information, and then tries to back it up as FACT by citing highly suspect and very official looking (but in the end totally unrelated) "research" - yeah, that offends me.
    I would like to know how it's unrelated. Post workout recovery is post workout recovery, it doesn't matter if you are lifting weight, running a marathon or riding the Tour de France. Also if you look at the 2nd study, you will notice it is specifically related to "weight training".

    The reason you see their names on the studies is because that is their area of expertise and of course they work for the company.

    Are you going to discredit these people also:

    Yasuhiko Kojima, M.D.
    President and Chairman of the Board
    Interferon Herb Research Institute
    Areas of Expertise: Interferon, Immune Science, and Kampo Medicine

    Dr. Yahuhiko Kojima received his Doctor of Medical Science degree from Tokyo University in 1964. Before receiving his degree, he was employed at Tokyo University Institute of Medical Science. Dr. Kojima's experience also includes serving in senior advisory roles at Kitazato Pharmaceutical and Yamanouchi Pharmaceutical. Currently, he is president and chairman of the board at The Interferon Herb Research Institute.

    In 1954, Dr. Kojima and a colleague, Dr. Yasuichi Nagano, discovered interferon-inducing activities in Chinese herbal medicines. Since then, their groundbreaking insights have generated an enormous body of scientific literature on interferon, antiviral, and anticancer immune responses in animals and humans, now a burgeoning and active and area of research. Dr. Kojima holds no less than 30 patents for interferon inducers and related processes as they relate to Chinese herbal medicines. Most notably, Dr. Kojima engineered and created the natural-based formulation for Shaklee
    Last edited by Virus; 07-24-2005, 11:47 AM.

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  • krj
    replied
    Originally posted by Virus
    You can also find someone who will sell it too you at MN or member price, take it immediately after workout and then again 2 hours later. If it doesn't keep you from getting sore or much less than you are used to, return it. You shouldn't be hassled at all for retuning anything. I purchased stuff from them before and didn't like it and had no problems returning it.
    Just couldn't leave well enough alone, could ya?

    I'm not going to look up the published studies that you cited, because I am certain that they are as comprehensively and meticulously researched as the FIRST one you cited. And by the way - Looft-Wilson, Patterson and Wittam are more examples of those "prolific researchers" I was talking about earlier (but not to forget our friend Jensen, who is also cited again in one of your two study references).

    VIRUS QUOTE: I'm just anal. I apologise if I offended anyone. My intentions were good and just wanted others to benefit from the research I had done on my own time: QUOTE

    I don't know what your intentions were, and I don't know who or what you are - and I don't take offense to anything anyone has to say of a personal nature on an internet forum.

    But nothing you have said in the Health and Fitness section has added up - not your claims of "awesome awesome products that prevent post-workout soreness", your so-called research (that is not only unrelated to your claims, but is also highly suspect in its' implementation and results), your steadfast determination to defend a company that (from all appearances) seems to be doing quite well without your vehement loyalty, your "broken record" posts of "buy it and return it if you don't like it" - but geeze, I'm just a consumer, not a distributor - REALLY!

    Anyone who gives the APPEARANCE of unbiased opinion, presents obviously WRONG information as factual information, and then tries to back it up as FACT by citing highly suspect and very official looking (but in the end totally unrelated) "research" - yeah, that offends me.
    Last edited by krj; 07-24-2005, 10:35 AM.

    Leave a comment:

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