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  • krj
    replied
    Virus, do they also provide links to the actual published results themselves, or just what you provided (ie. a list of research papers)? Just curious.

    QUOTE VIRUS: It's been clinically proven and published in 3 referee and peer reviewed journals. It'll keep you from getting sore even after really pushing your lifting. UNQUOTE

    What's a referee manual?

    There's no supplement that will "keep you from getting sore even after really pushing your lifting". There are two types of muscle soreness:

    1) Soreness you feel while, or immediately after exercising
    2) Soreness that you feel 1-3 days after a strenuous exercise workout

    The first is related to a buildup of lactic acid in muscles that actually leaks out of muscle cells and stimulates nerve endings (that ultimately causes the sore and stiff feeling). This excess lactic acid is removed quickly (and naturally by the body) (usually within an hour of exercise). Some of the lactic acid is metabolized in the actual muscle cell in which it was produced - the rest is carried to the liver as lactate, where it is also broken down.

    The second type of soreness (latent soreness or delayed onset muscle soreness - DOMS) is not so cut and dry, but there is a general belief right now that this type of soreness is related to very small tears to the connective tissues that hold individual muscle fibers together within the muscle (as well as some tearing of the membrane of the muscle cells).

    The point (again) is that you can't eat yourself out of muscle soreness. When you DO work harder than your body is really capable of (and we've all done it), if we rest, our body does what it needs to do naturally to get us healthy again.

    Looked at your link quickly, but two things jumped out immediately:

    1. the dates of the research - much of it is very old
    2. the names of the researchers - I arbitrarily picked just two names out of all the the research you listed (Spiller and Jensen) - and let's just say that they are prolific researchers............

    That's not to say that it's NOT legit - but I wrote something the other day on here about having a healthy skepticism for stuff you read from ALL sources (including this forum).

    Companies can have a way of making their "research" appear and sound scientifically valid (especially for the benefit of lay people ie. the consuming public). And it's not unheard of (especially re: the supplement industry which currently is unregulated ie. they can make any claims they want and don't have to prove any of them) for them to either:

    a) just make this **** up or
    b) go through some of the motions of "research" (with funding coming from the company and supplied to "researchers" who are also funded by the company)
    Last edited by krj; 07-23-2005, 09:27 AM.

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  • Virus
    replied
    The problem with just going a purchasing protein is you have no idea if they have been clinically tested and work. Another poster mentioned Shaklee Physique. Awesome, awesome product. It's been clinically proven and published in 3 referee and peer reviewed journals. It'll keep you from getting sore even after really pushing your lifting. I could go really in depth on post workout recovery, but I'm sure you would get bored so I'll keep it simple. I can tell you this. Take any nutritional supplement, wether it be protein or a multivitamin. Take the time to write the company. Here is what you write:

    To whom it may concern, I am extremely interested in purchasing your products. Could you please mail me a complete bibliography of all your research published in referee or peer review medical or nutritional journals. This research should be written by your staff on the products you sell.

    I absolutely guarantee that Shaklee is the only company that will respond, because no other company that I'm aware of goes the extra step to prove their products work. The FDA doesn't require it so they won't spend the money to do it. Shaklee does. I wrote this letter to several companies such as EAS, TwinLabs, etc. Here is a link to some of Shaklee's published research.

    http://content.nhiondemand.com/shk/b...rchStudies.pdf
    Last edited by Virus; 07-22-2005, 09:51 PM.

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  • da moose
    replied
    as mentioned protein powder is your best bet, try an MRP powder such as optimum nutrition whey MRP, that way you take care of your protein and carb needs in one shot. Remember, for best results always get that protein down within an hour of finishing your workout.Also, if you are trying to lose weight stay away from the sport drinks, gatorade,powerade etc.... they contain too much sugar and are high in carbs.
    Last edited by da moose; 07-13-2005, 05:41 PM.

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  • JML65
    replied
    Who are you?

    What is a "workout" to you?

    What are your goals?


    You need to replace what your body took out. Your body is looking for something quick, so go really low or NO fat. Fat takes longer to digest so your body is still "starving" even though you have eaten. MEAT is also a bad idea, as it too takes a while to digest. So does a large meal.

    So, with the info above, we are looking for a small meal with protein and carbs that digests quickly. The ammount and type of which differs greatly between individual needs. Here are some examples for people like us, who lift and do cardio.

    Protein powder with milk and banana
    Shake with protein powder, milk or water, and a little fruit and dextrose
    Jelly and bread with a little PB (not too much, don't want too much fat)

    The window is really short for nutrition, some say as little as 30 minutes after your workout. If you don't eat after, your muscles diminish.

    Even if you are trying to lose weight, you should have a post workout "meal".

    You can eat a real size meal with meat and stuff about an hour after your workout meal.

    If you don't have time for this, eating something healthy is better than nothing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Serpico
    replied
    Originally posted by MAD_MAX333
    muscle milk sounds pretty good guys... i wonder if i can find a website to order it
    Try the GNC website.

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  • MAD_MAX333
    replied
    muscle milk sounds pretty good guys... i wonder if i can find a website to order it

    Leave a comment:


  • trpr2b
    replied
    Originally posted by Serpico
    Muscle Milk is the best whey product I've tried. It's so fine that it blends so well with milk or water, whereas, some other products get all clumpy and disgusting. Their flavors are also great. Banana Creme and Cookies and Creme are pretty good. They just made an improved Cookies and Creme with 54 grams of protein per serving, rather than the 30 something the old one has.

    Man, I gotta try that banana cream. I used to drink a Shaklee product about 10 years ago called Physique and it tasted like banana cream. I could drink that stuff even if I didn't work out. It tasted GREAT!

    Leave a comment:


  • Serpico
    replied
    Originally posted by trpr2b
    Muscle Milk. It's a protein shake with a little bit of creatine and a little bit of fat. It claims to help your body burn fat. I don't know whether it does or not but if you get the chocolate flavor and mix it with COLD water it taste JUST LIKE Nestle Quik. I drink it 30 min before work out and directly after workout. I can tell a difference in energy level and strength pre work out and definitely a lack of soreness post work out.

    Don't get Strawberry, it tastes like Aspartame.
    Muscle Milk is the best whey product I've tried. It's so fine that it blends so well with milk or water, whereas, some other products get all clumpy and disgusting. Their flavors are also great. Banana Creme and Cookies and Creme are pretty good. They just made an improved Cookies and Creme with 54 grams of protein per serving, rather than the 30 something the old one has.

    Leave a comment:


  • krj
    replied
    Originally posted by Gottso
    Wouldn't you want to ingest protein and a simplex carb immediately after workout. It takes time and energy for your body to break down complex carbs, so according to #2 here, you'd really want a simplex carb with your PWO shake...something your body can utilize immediately.
    Actually, it IS recommended that what you eat immediately after exercise is in the simple carbohydrate category - they raise blood glucose and insulin levels, and facilitate glycogen resynthesis.

    That doesn't mean the twinkie and soda variety of simple carbs though - more like honey, bagels, cornflakes, raisins etc. (high glycemic foods) - then spaghetti, oatmeal, bananas, grapes, oranges, rice, beans etc. (moderate glycemic foods) - then apples, applesauce, dates, milk, yogurt etc. (low glycemic foods).

    The remainder of carbohydrates that you eat post w/o (and continue to eat until your next workout session) should be found in mostly complex carbs (breads, cereals, rice, pasta etc.) and some simple carbs (primarily fruits and vegetables).

    Two big things to keep in mind:

    1. Immediately post-workout, it's most efficient to eat as soon as possible (hard to do for some people, because they can't stomach a lot of food for a while), and include both a combination of carbohydrates and protein.

    2. This whole glycogen resynthesis issue is important for everyone (as in "eating enough carbohydrates throughout the day to adequately fuel each of your workouts") - but the "immediately post workout" and "exact combinations of carbs and protein" is much more of an issue for those who are very fit and participate in very long and arduous bouts of endurance exercise.

    For most of us, just try to drink enough before, during and after each workout - and try to eat a healthy diet on a daily basis that's founded primarily on complex carbohydrates, with smaller amounts of lean protein and fat.
    Last edited by krj; 07-09-2005, 10:55 AM.

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  • krj
    replied
    Favorites post-workout include: cereal and milk, sandwich on whole wheat (meat and cheese, eggs or tuna mostly), whole wheat toast and jam, fruit (by itself, on cereal, in yogurt etc.), watered down fruit juice and/or sports drinks. Can eat a fair amount after a workout.

    Leave a comment:


  • EMT
    replied
    After my morning workout I normally drink a whey protein shake with milk, because I need the added body mass that it gives me for football, and eat like a power bar and yogurt. In the afternoon/evening I drink another shake and then a little snack before dinner.

    Leave a comment:


  • trpr2b
    replied
    Originally posted by Highwaystreets
    thanks guys! awesome advice. i guess i don't want to get mercury poisoning so i will lay off the tuna to just 2 times a week. what do you guys usually eat after a workout?

    Muscle Milk. It's a protein shake with a little bit of creatine and a little bit of fat. It claims to help your body burn fat. I don't know whether it does or not but if you get the chocolate flavor and mix it with COLD water it taste JUST LIKE Nestle Quik. I drink it 30 min before work out and directly after workout. I can tell a difference in energy level and strength pre work out and definitely a lack of soreness post work out.

    Don't get Strawberry, it tastes like Aspartame.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    thanks guys! awesome advice. i guess i don't want to get mercury poisoning so i will lay off the tuna to just 2 times a week. what do you guys usually eat after a workout?

    Leave a comment:


  • ProWriter
    replied
    Unless you're an extreme ectomorph who has a great deal of difficulty gaining any weight at all, (or one of those guys who cares more about looking "bigger" in your clothes, even if most of your weight gains are a just a layer of fat instead of muscle) you really want to avoid peanut butter, and other high-fat foods, altogether. As I've explained before, the "good fat/bad fat" issue applies only to health, and not weight/physique maintenance (in connection with which all fats are equally "bad").

    Your post-workout meal should have a good serving (about 40 grams) of a complete protein, but, as KRJ suggests, you also want to include a nice portion of complex carbs, for two reasons: 1. Carbs "spare" your protein for muscle tiissue repair, because if you eat only the protein, your body might break it down and use it for energy, instead of tissue repair; 2. Your muscles are most "primed" to store glycogen efficiently right after they've been exhausted from training. In principle, this is similar to carb "loading" without a specific depletion phase (other than your regular workout), and, generally, the more aerobic a workout you do, the more it applies.

    Leave a comment:


  • krj
    replied
    Primarily a focus on complex carbohydrates, with a smaller amount of lean protein.

    Leave a comment:

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