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  • Knee story!!

    I would be very interesyed to hear What you all think about this?
    http://aziz.typepad.com/butchered/

  • #2
    A bunch of random thoughts on the article:

    1. I find it difficult to believe that the guy could continue to play sports for 3 years with a torn ACL.

    2. This article presents only one side of a story. Maybe there IS only one side to this story, and maybe there's more to it. Who knows?

    3. I worked for a smaller rural hospital for a couple of years in a community education-type position. I don't care how many years of education these doctors had - there wasn't a complete set of brain cells between the bunch of them. And there was not a full-set of ethics between them either.

    We (the consuming public) put these guys up on a pedestal. But they're human like the rest of us - capable of all the good and bad things that we're all capable of. Some are better at their jobs than others. Some have integrity and some don't. We (again as the consuming public) need to take them off their pedestal, realize that they are doing a job the same as every other profession (and are not gods), and take personal responsibility for getting complete and comprehensive information about the medical crap they want to do to us.

    4. I know a number of people that have had back and/or knee surgeries. Some of these people were older and inactive. Some of these people were athletes. Some of their surgeries went well and their quality of life improved as a result of the surgeries. Some surgeries did nothing and/or actually caused more pain.

    5. Before ANYONE cuts into me they better give me some very good reasons. And those reasons better be backed up by the second doctor's opinion that I get.

    6. I came close to having back surgery a little over 5 months ago. In addition to breaking a bunch of bones in my foot and dislocating some of my toes, I also had a compression fracture in my back.

    For the first 12 hours that I was in the hospital I was treated as a spinal patient (head immobilized, spinal board transfer from one bed to another). I had had a training accident in another state, so did not have family close by. Thank goodness my training partner acted as an advocate for me with the docs. They were talking about fusing vertebrae together, or putting a rod in my spine.

    The least invasive solution was to immobilize my back with a body brace (had to wear it 24-7 except when bathing). My team-mate discussed the options with the doctor, brought the options to me, and I made the decision to go with the brace. I have no doubt that if I had been in that situation alone (eg. if I had been in a car accident while travelling through the state, and they brought me into the hospital alone) I would have listened to a doctor tell me that "this is what we're going to do". In my injured (and honestly scared) state, I'm not sure that I would have been able to ask the right questions.....

    Luckily, that decision turned out the be the right one, and all turned out well.

    7. All leading up to what (in my opinion - and this is strictly just my personal opinion) is the bottom line:

    a) go least invasive first

    b) if the injury is chronic (pain or injury that gets progressively debillating over time) - get a couple of opinions from unrelated doctors

    c) if the injury is serious and acute (sudden injury) call (in addition to your family), the calmest and most trusted friend you have (someone who can stay cool under duress, ask the right questions, explain the situation and options to you, and help you make the best decision)
    Last edited by krj; 04-11-2005, 03:29 PM.

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    • #3
      I know how this guys feeling. I went in for a torn miniscus & ended up in ICU for 3 days. They came close to killing me. 2 years later, my knee is still screwed up & I will likely need a knee replacement. Chose your DR with great care.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Stan Switek
        I know how this guys feeling. I went in for a torn miniscus & ended up in ICU for 3 days. They came close to killing me. 2 years later, my knee is still screwed up & I will likely need a knee replacement. Chose your DR with great care.
        Please tell me they did not remove the damaged meniscus....my knee doctor told me that was archaic surgery and when I had my knee surgery, he saw some damage in my meniscus , but said the therapy would help it.......would take forever , but it would help. I had both cruciates and both collateral ligs grafted with cadaver parts....my patellar tendon is some graft made out of who knows what....but its all mine now and it works fairly well. My surgeon did not think I would ever walk without a cane or brace and when I did, he hugged me. How sweet.

        Hope the knee things works out for all of you who have probs.....I feel for you, I really do. I was just lucky I guess to have damn good insurance and awesome doctors.....for all 4 surgeries on my knee.

        Stan, dont let your muscles get weak.....keep those quads and calf muscles along with your hamstrings going.....even if it is passive movement.....once those get weak, you are more prone to injury...oh, your back too.

        Goodluck...

        Comment


        • #5
          Not only did this DR remove most of the cartlidge, he didnt want me to do any PT after the surgery which made it even worse.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Stan Switek
            Not only did this DR remove most of the cartlidge, he didnt want me to do any PT after the surgery which made it even worse.
            Oh wow...thats pretty bad. Sorry...still keep those muscles strong...I had to so tons of these short leg lifts after 4th surgery. Still do them when my knee feels clicky. I roll up a small towel and place it under the affected knee...can be sitting in a chair or on floor. Then lift the leg up ...dont snap or hyperextend (my knee does that sometimes when I stand up too fast and OUCH! Helps the quads a bit and is an exercise you can do while reading or watching Tv.....dont over do it! I guess you should ask a doc first......find a new one first.
            My doc is the Astros team doctor (or was when I last heard)and has done surgery in different countries and such The technique using cadaver parts(Allo graftiing, I believe) is one he does well, so he is pretty popular.
            Thank God my insurance paid for all the surgery....I wouldnt be walking if I couldnt have it...my leg looked like cooked spaghetti...it was super gross! I have a few battle scars now, but at least I have a leg (could have lost it had the damage been more severe) ....

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            • #7
              Styx: Who is your OS? I am going to have to have my knee looked at again. My OS is associated with the Rockets and the Texans. He don't have much of a "bedside manner" and I would like to look at other options. Sounds like yours is quite thurough. Thanks for sharing!

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              • #8
                almost 2 months ago, i had knee surgery to repair my ACL, and shave down the fat pad, and clean some other stuff up... it is still messed up, but i couldnt afford to stay on limited duty, so i am back to work, with a fat knee brace and frequent therapy sessions.... i dont see it getting better for a long time, if at all..

                on a side note, the ACL repair was not a replacement, and there was no grafting, so it wasnt really bad...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TRichie
                  Styx: Who is your OS? I am going to have to have my knee looked at again. My OS is associated with the Rockets and the Texans. He don't have much of a "bedside manner" and I would like to look at other options. Sounds like yours is quite thurough. Thanks for sharing!
                  Dr. David Lintner in Houston Texas. I think his name is David and I think that is how you spell his last name. Hope its not the same doc...he had a wonderful bedside manner, but I was at in real fragile state so he could have been forced to be that way.....I doubt itl he was a nice guy. Hope fame in the local area has not changed him.
                  One thing I can tell you is..DONT talk about your other doctors in a negative way....that puts up warning signs and they panic with all the law suits going around.
                  Good luck; my OS even gave me several reference for surgeons outside his area when I moved from Houston...guys he trusted. I was thankful for that.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CHPMarine
                    almost 2 months ago, i had knee surgery to repair my ACL, and shave down the fat pad, and clean some other stuff up... it is still messed up, but i couldnt afford to stay on limited duty, so i am back to work, with a fat knee brace and frequent therapy sessions.... i dont see it getting better for a long time, if at all..

                    on a side note, the ACL repair was not a replacement, and there was no grafting, so it wasnt really bad...
                    Keep up the therapy! Any knee problem is bad...no matter the extent...in my opinion....keep your surrounding muscles and back strong! Learn proper lifting and bending mechanics.......stay flexible!!!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Styx
                      Dr. David Lintner in Houston Texas. I think his name is David and I think that is how you spell his last name. Hope its not the same doc...he had a wonderful bedside manner, but I was at in real fragile state so he could have been forced to be that way.....I doubt itl he was a nice guy. Hope fame in the local area has not changed him.
                      One thing I can tell you is..DONT talk about your other doctors in a negative way....that puts up warning signs and they panic with all the law suits going around.
                      Good luck; my OS even gave me several reference for surgeons outside his area when I moved from Houston...guys he trusted. I was thankful for that.
                      Thanks. He is not my OS. I won't say his name because I don't want to be slanderous I just don't agree with his patient care philosophies. I just looked up Dr. Lintner and he is on my insurance so I will try to get in with him. Let me know if you want me to tell him you refered me.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TRichie
                        Thanks. He is not my OS. I won't say his name because I don't want to be slanderous I just don't agree with his patient care philosophies. I just looked up Dr. Lintner and he is on my insurance so I will try to get in with him. Let me know if you want me to tell him you refered me.
                        Its been 10 years since my surgery, but he may remember me because I was one of his first patients who had such extensive damage that required so much work ...I will P.M you with my name and you can let him know.......let him know he came highly recommended. I probably wouldnt be walking if it were not for him!

                        Good luck!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by krj
                          ...I find it difficult to believe that the guy could continue to play sports for 3 years with a torn ACL...
                          You'd definitely think so, right?...especially if you experienced the instability of a torn ACL before it was fixed. Usually, it swells up so much it's imobilized and fixed before the swelling subsides. Mine didn't swell right away, so when the immediate pain went away, I was on the bench "testing" it to see whether I'd still be able to squat the next day like I planned Then I I tried to take another shift and got to experience the sensation of my legs bones feeling like they'd literally slide apart and snap at the knee.

                          Steve Iserman (long-time Detroit Redwings capt.) has no ACL in either knee; in fact, I believe at least one of his knees has no ACL and NONE of the other three knee ligaments intact, either...and he's skated into the Stanley Cup finals on them. I don't know the exact statistic, but approximately 25 or 30% of torn ACL's are never diagnosed, based on how often they show up in surgical exploration for other injuries to the same knee, years later. In those people, it just doesn't serve as important a stabilizing role. I definitely wasn't one of 'em.

                          If you know any doctors talking about "removing" cartilage (minisci), limp right away from their offices. The modern idea is to preserve as much as possible and just trim off the rough/torn edges to reduce irritation.

                          CHP, I'm curious how a torn ACL was repaired without a replacement or graft. They don't necessarily rupture through-and-through, but they stretch beyond their capacity to contract (like a rubber band that gets too soft without breaking). Usually, the % of fibers considered over-stretched is the degree of "tear," and that's what's fixed by surgical graft or replacement, because stapling the injured structure doesn't work. You know what you had done to it, specifically?
                          No longer ignoring anybody here, since that psycho known as "Josey Wales" finally got the boot after being outed as a LE imposter by B&G978. Nice job.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ProWriter
                            CHP, I'm curious how a torn ACL was repaired without a replacement or graft. They don't necessarily rupture through-and-through, but they stretch beyond their capacity to contract (like a rubber band that gets too soft without breaking). Usually, the % of fibers considered over-stretched is the degree of "tear," and that's what's fixed by surgical graft or replacement, because stapling the injured structure doesn't work. You know what you had done to it, specifically?
                            no it wasnt a tear.... it was exactly what you mentioned, it got streched out too far, but not to the point of tearing i guess. he used some special instrument to tighten it up. the doc explained that he clipped and tightned it or something... I didnt really understand. it was all arthroscopic. i had some other things cleaned up and taken out, nothing major. my knee still pops, and hurts, but the knee brace keeps it stable while i'm on the road.
                            so to really answer your question, i dont know specifically. I just wanted it better. he gave me pictures of it too, but i am lost with those too. i just see gooey stuff.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              CHPMarine,

                              Originally posted by CHPMarine
                              almost 2 months ago, i had knee surgery to repair my ACL, and shave down the fat pad, and clean some other stuff up... it is still messed up, but i couldnt afford to stay on limited duty, so i am back to work, with a fat knee brace and frequent therapy sessions.... i dont see it getting better for a long time, if at all..

                              on a side note, the ACL repair was not a replacement, and there was no grafting, so it wasnt really bad...
                              Weren't you available for 4850 pay? Or was it an off-duty injury?

                              Take care,

                              JW

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