need more protein

[sambrown]

I have been seriously training at the gym for about 6 months now, and am starting to see real results. My problem is that I am finding it hard to intake the suggested 1.5 grams of protein/lbs of body mass. I was hoping I could get some tips on how to change my diet to better suit my fitness plan. I don't mind taking some supplements, but am very conscious about any chemicals I put in my body (though for some reason I can't say no to Rotten Ronnie's Big Extra). My goal is training for strength and size, so calories and fat are a non-issue for me. (I weigh about 180lb)

[ProWriter]

You don't necessarily even need any supplements if you have the time to make four meals a day. One decent size serving of just about any quality protein source (chicken breast, turkey breast, tuna, cottage cheese, fat free egg mix, any other low fat seafood, etc) should give you at least 40+ grams per meal. But you don't need 1.5/ib bodyweight either: the accepted ratio for the most you can really assimilate is about 1g per KILO of bodyweight...so if you want to add a cushion and make it 1g per pound of bodyweight, just eat four meals a day with a nice protein source each time for approximately 160-180 grams/day.

Beginning bodybuilders focus way too heavily on protein intake, because if your goal is to gain some muscular weight, what you need to add is CARBS (as complex as possible, not junk carbs) rather than protein. If you want to add a protein/carb shake at the end of the day after you've had all four of your meals, that's fine too, for hard gainers. Remember though, you can't really gain all that much muscle in a short period of time so don't overdo it. The lean look at 185 is a lot better while you're growing than that bloated puffy, water logged 200lb look guys get from stuffing their faces to get "big"...and we've all been there...just tryin' to save you some of what we went through ok? Train hard, stay lean, build a few good pounds of quality muscle each year instead of fooling yourself into thinking soft bodyweight and water weight is "muscle" in the meantime.

[DaveJersey]

I agree with ProWriter, but have something to add as far as some good protein. A protein drink called N-Large2 was very helpful for me in putting on some mass. I weighed about 145 about 2 years ago, and with sound eating habits and hard training I got up to 185. However, the drawback to N-Large2 is that it has a gread deal of sugar in it.

I also tried Nitro-Tech protein, but found a product called "On" protein, which is much cheaper and has more protein per serving. But like the last post said, you might end up bloated. After relying on protein drinks too heavily I got up to 200, and didn't have the same cut look I had before so I dropped that shakes for a while.

But that is what worked for me personally. As they say, individual results may vary.

[rebbryan]

last i heard protein was way overrated for body building.

anyways pro, what're good complex carbohydrates?

[ProWriter]

1013 asked this a few months ago on another thread, so I'll just paste it here ok? Reb, you're the easy gainer who grows muscles "accidentally" without any fat, right? You might have the kind of metabolism that makes it unnecessary to really have to worry about this as much of the rest of us. You can probably eat your share of junk and not stand there juggling bread loaves in the super market like me, comparing the relative order that stone ground whole wheat flour and wheat flour are listed in the ingredients and checking whether it's a gram of fat in one slice or two slices but as far as your question goes:

Complex carbs:

Whole grain breads that say "whole wheat" or "oats" as their first ingredients instead of bleached flour. "Enriched Unbleached" is better than bleached, but whole wheat is more complex and preferable to any form of "white" bread. Stone ground whole wheat is the best of all. Brown rice is more complex than white rice, sweet potatoes more complex than regular potatoes, green spinach pastas, red tomato pastas, and semolina pastas are all more complex than white pasta. Beans, legumes, and vegetables like peas that aren't primarily cellulose (which is fine for you, too) are also complex carbs. All forms of sugar, whether table sugar or brown or maple syrup or honey are the simplest carbs of all.
Cakes and cookies are all simple bleached flour and as often as not, they're not even the first ingredient because sugar is. Same goes for any cereal marketed to kids.

PS. Sam, as Dave said, one thing you learn in bodybuilding is that too much protein (much more than a gram per kilo of bodyweight) is just a waste, and it's a long term health issue for kidneys...but if you're still convinced you really needs more protein and it's a problem, just get a bottle of liquid predigested collagen in the health food store...it's about $25/quart and two tablespoons is like 15 grams of the purest bodybuilding protein there is. It takes getting used to the taste though...if you've never tried it before you'll think that's probably what oven cleaner tastes like going down. When I was in college a roomate of mine bet a girl $5 or $10 she couldn't drink a slug of it and she ended up puking in our sink. Remember Bro, I'm just trying to save you from some of the typical mistakes we all made "back in the day" ok? Back then I used to chug a few gulps once or twice a day and chase it with a granola bar as a snack, but granola bars are too high in fat (6 grams each, I think) for the way I've been eating more recently. You can get liquid proteins in flavors (like cherry, etc) too, but I think those have sacharrin. I know Weider used to put out a version with honey if you prefer your oven cleaner SWEETENED and carcinogen free

[JRT6]

When experts say you don't need protein for hard training one needs to first consider the source(I'm not refering to Prowriter's post) and two find out for themselves. By training hard I mean hard enough to break down muscle. Casual lifters needn't really worry about if their eating well

In my case:

I try to eat at least one gram of portein per pound of body weight. My current weight is 235lbs and that's about as low as it's going to get until I'm too old to maintain that level of lean muscle mass. I discovered this by taking certain levels of protein over the years and monitering my lifting performance. I found 200grams to be the absolute minimum and over 250grams a waste of money.. Now I do try to get all my protein in food but 230grams is a lot of meat eating and I would rather avoid that. So I supplement by drinking Optimal Nutrition protein which is so cheap two serving has 46 grams of potein and costs me less than 80 cents.

When protein is taken is more critical than how much. I take two servings with a bowl of oat meat for breakfast, two servings after working out, and two before going to bed. I'll take some to work and have a serving if for some reason I have to go more than three and half hours without eating.

[krj]

The American Dietetic Associations' current daily protein recommendations are that:

1. The largely sedentary general public should be consuming .8g of protein/kg of body weight

2. People who participate primarily in activities to increase power and strength development should consume 1.6-1.7g/kg of body weight

3. People who participate primarily in activities to increase endurance should consume 1.2-1.6g/kg of body weight

We're talking about #2 in this thread, so if you currently weigh 180 pounds (82kg) you should be eating somewhere in the region of 140g of protein each day (so ProWriter's 160-180 is in the right ballpark).

Those who consume too much protein put themselves at risk for kidney disease and kidney stones (and actually, one of the first courses of treatment for those who HAVE some form of kidney disease is to lower their consumption of protein).

ProWriter's recommendation re: increasing complex carbohydrates is also good.

Always try to keep in mind that muscle growth is stimulated directly by physically demanding activity. Adequate nutrition, hydration and rest SUPPORT that process.

[JRT6]

Studies have shown that athletes who consume over twice their body weight in protein and drink plenty of fuids have no kidney problems. A large consumption of protein has never been shown to be a causal factor of kidney disease in healthy athletes.

[rebbryan]

so pro, does that mean chocolate cake, doughnuts, pizza, and kudos bars probably aren't complex??? dang! that makes up 1/4 of my diet!!

[krj]

Originally posted by JRT6
Studies have shown that athletes who consume over twice their body weight in protein and drink plenty of fuids have no kidney problems. A large consumption of protein has never been shown to be a causal factor of kidney disease in healthy athletes.

JRT6 - what are the studies you are referring to?

[FightingFit]

Originally posted by rebbryan
last i heard protein was way overrated for body building.

anyways pro, what're good complex carbohydrates?

I want you to walk up to the person who told you this and SMACK them as hard as you can. Protein, is the key nutrient to building lean muscle mass. If you want a good Whey Isolate I would go with ISOPURE. It can mix well with water, and if you are lactose intolerant like I am, you will handle it well. Remember, while you are eating/growing your body will hit plateaus..don't get discouraged they are only temporary

[krj]

FightingFit - hey - welcome to the forum! I didn't see you listed in the intro thread, so please tell us something about yourself.

While I agree with you that protein is A key nutrient in the building of lean muscle mass, I don't consider it to be THE key nutrient.

Americans typically eat a diet that is calorie high and nutrient deficient. Protein however, seems to be the exception to that rule - and Americans (even very physically active individuals) generally are NOT deficient in protein.

It has been recognized that athletes involved primarily in strength training activities require higher amounts of protein than the non-exercising general population. However, the numbers that I listed earlier in this thread (in the case of strength trainers 1.6-1.7g/kg of body weight/day) is more than adequate to meet their higher protein needs.

In contrast, it is recommended that these same strength training athletes consume carbohydrates in a range from 6-10g/kg of body weight/day.

An increase in complex carbohydrates serves to maintain blood glucose levels during exercise and to replace muscle glycogen.

Eating a diet high in complex carbs (to provide physically active individuals with the energy requirements they need to sustain their activity levels) - and an effective exercise program (designed to meet their specific strength training goals), will translate into an increase in muscle mass.

[rebbryan]

fighting fit, i didn't mean you didn't need it, but too many focus on it as being the only thing they need

[FightingFit]

Well, to tell you about me, I am a 24 y/o Community Service Officer/Telecommunicator for a small dept in Illinois. I am also a Personal Trainer as my signature says, and an avid bodybuilder. I am currently 5'4 125, I just got off a bad injury after being involved in a BAD personal injury car accident, (where I was knocked unconcious by my air bag and had bad back pains/spasms for 2 weeks.)

I plan to compete in my first bodybuilding show next year, and am right on track, (I want to come in at about 145-150) I am really lean, and have a low amount of bodyfat.

Anyhow, I am planning on moving down south to Texas and working in the LaW Enforcement field, and one day opening my own gym.. I ALSO teach self defense to women/children..


As for the protein thing, it is quite important, most trainers say an active individual should consume a ration of 50/40/10 (carbs/protein/fat) there is even some variation on that...

[ProWriter]

Originally posted by FightingFit
As for the protein thing, it is quite important, most trainers say an active individual should consume a ration of 50/40/10 (carbs/protein/fat) there is even some variation on that...

FightingFit, I am not necessarily referring to you here, because I don't know you, but I've explained on other threads that "most trainers" become "trainers" by taking a simple multiple choice (or even true/false) test (depending on the certifying agency) while they're still pretty much novices to training, themselves.

Conversely, most nutritionists have bona-fide advanced educational degrees in the field, and most biomedical researchers spend at least eight years in higher education. NONE of them believe that anybody can possibly assimilate more than a gram (or at the very MOST, two grams) of protein per pound of body weight, no matter how hard you train. That's already a tremendous amount of protein; nobody really knowledgeable in the field advocates THAT much protein.

Instead of talking about "slapping someone really hard" or whatever, be a little more open minded with respect to people who might have a lot more experience in this area than you do, especially when most of them probably used to make some of the exact same mistakes when they were your age before they competed in their very first body building show that you're now advising for people who are simply hoping to learn on this forum as you prepare for yours.

Protein is important to rebuild the muscle cells you break down training, but stuffing yourself full of protein above and beyond what your body can possibly assimilate just gives you very high protein ****, and it likely contributes to kidney stones, although not everybody necessarily agrees with that.

Train hard, eat more calories overall than you burn to gain weight, have a good source of complete protein with every meal, eat more complex carbs than anything else, and minimize fat as much as possible unless you're very thin with a very fast metabolism, in which case you can afford some more fat than the rest of us...and don't slap anybody.