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  • For ONLY those wanting honest training/nutrition help not a cheerleader

    If anybody has questions about physique shaping routines, strength training, weight loss or maintenance, nutritional advice, and preliminary athletic injury diagnosis, prevention, rehabilitation, and advice or suggestions about related topics I'm always happy to help. I always give totally impartial, objective answers if it's something I know about, or suggestions where to find more info if it's something I don't. I have nothing to sell, no "vendetta" against any particular product or philosophy or person...but I don't want to argue, especially with anybody whose interest or experience in the subject is fifteen minutes old, either.

    <small>[ 06-12-2003, 12:43 AM: Message edited by: ProWritingServices4LEOs ]</small>
    No longer ignoring anybody here, since that psycho known as "Josey Wales" finally got the boot after being outed as a LE imposter by B&G978. Nice job.

  • #2
    I'm looking to get my 3 mile run time down to about 20:00. I don't know where I'm at right now but I finally finished 3 miles today after 1 1/2 weeks of training. I felt pretty good after I got to @ 1.5 miles. My question(s) are what should I eat to have energy but not gain weight (I'm running 4-5x a week)? I will want to add muscle later but right now I want to get my weight and run time down.

    Also, sometimes when running heavy for weeks/months I have knee pain. Back when I was on active duty someone advised me that maybe I needed more fat in my diet as fat provides cushioning for the joints. Is there any truth to this and is there anything I can do for sore knees?
    On the wings of a dove
    Let's roll for justice
    Let's roll for truth
    Let's not let our children grow up
    Fearful in their youth -- Neil Young

    Comment


    • #3
      Pro,

      Have you heard anything good/bad about the "water" being sold with additives? (Propel etc.) Are they worth it?
      Walk slow, Talk low, and Don't say Too Much.

      Comment


      • #4
        What's up fellas. Let me take the easy one first:

        Ron, all those "specialized" water products are a COMPLETE farce and a total waste of money. The most ridiculous of them is "O2GO Water" that is supposedly "oxygenated" to "oxygenate" your muscles or whatever. We don't absorb oxygen through our digestive system, but through our lungs. The other ones with extra vitamins aren't worth buying either.

        A good B-complex multivitamin is about all anybody needs for health. Extra water soluble vitamins like Vitamin C can't be stored, so you just excrete them out when you take a leak, and if you really take too much you get the squirts, and eventually, kidney stones. The other vitamins (like A and E) do get stored in your tissues and excessive amounts of them (especially A) can be toxic and cause significant health problems. Other than a good multivitamin, nobody really needs any extra vitamins unless you're diagnosed as having some specific deficiency. A lot of research says that some extra vitamin C bolsters your resistance to colds and also promotes quicker healing of injuries and workout recuperation, but 1000 mg or so per day is really plenty...and you should get the time released versions which permit maximum absorption. If you get a lot of sun or you start getting stretch marks from training, 10,000 IU of E and A have been shown to minimize sun damage, and the same goes for smokers. Vitamin E OIL, on the other hand does absolutely nothing for your skin besides moisturize it temporarily...your skin doesn't absorb any E from topical application at all.

        If you do decide to buy vitamins individually don't waste money on "name brands", either. They literally come from the same factory production line and they get conveyer belted into different bottles with very different prices, which incidentally, is the exact same situation with BATTERIES, which are exactly the same cell from the same production line, some of which get wrapped into a "Duracell" label for $7.99 a pack while others ones from the exact same batch get a "CVS" or other store brand label for $3.99. (Consumer Reports has covered both vitamins and batteries and it's just ridiculous.)

        Check the labels if you're spending money on bottled water too: a lot of them that have a real nice mountainous picture and are called "Vermont Springs" or whatever have fine print that says "A product of Cleveland Municipal Water Supply", which means you're paying for Cleveland tap water in a nice bottle, so read the labels on water too. Forget any "specialized" vitamin waters, though. Even good old Gatorade is considered too high in sugar and sodium by the experts and excessive sodium causes dehydration by depleting potassium as well as drawing water into your digestive system from your body tissues, which is exactly the opposite of what you hope to accomplish by drinking fluids in the first place.

        I don't know too much about advanced training programs for running specifically, but there are some general running principles I can give you:

        The most likely source of knee pains is cheap, or improperly fitting, or the wrong type of footwear. You can't run in anything but running shoes, so if you're using "cross trainers" or whatever, that's the first thing I'd look into and get a good quality running shoe. (Consumer reports also has covered them thoroughly.) The fit also has to be right and if you have any kind of irregular contours of your foot or arch, it's worth having a specialist like a podiatrist take a look and suggest a shoe or even prescribe an orthotic. Whatever you do, do not buy an over-the-counter orthotic because they've been shown to cause more problems than they solve.

        Running surfaces matter a lot too, and pounding out 3 miles on pavement is a lot of abuse from your ankles all the way up to your lower back, so if you're running on hard surfaces, knee pains are no mystery.

        If you can stay awake for it, tape a marathon on TV, and watch the close-ups they show of professional runners' feet, too. They stay a few inches off the ground, while novices sometimes get much higher up in the air, which is a lot of unnecessary pounding every single stride.

        Extra fat in your diet isn't necessary, because it's much more likely to be an issue of footwear, running surface, or stride mechanics. In any case, unless you're absolutely starving or a contestant on "Survivor", there's really no chance that you're consuming too little fat for normal synovial fluid production. Icing your knees is also a good idea anytime they hurt from any kind of activities, and anti-inflammatories like Aspirin with a meal helps too. (See my post on knee problems too, for more on this.) Finally, take a look at your running shoes. If the outside of the heels are very worn and the insides almost new looking, you almost certainly have plain old "runner's knee" or peri-pattelar irritation. That's caused by a supinating anomaly of your foot during your running stride and it is diagnosed and solved by a sports medicine physician who will also prescribe orthotics for it. He will also rule out bursitis, kneecap subluxation and "jumper's knee" for which there is a little half-moon looking cushion thing that presses on the front lower portion of your kneecap by a strap around your knee. Whatever it is, it can usually be diagnosed and fixed by some combination of orthotics and/or other therapeutic device, so there's no need to suffer through it to get your running in.

        Runners tend to eat a lot of complex carbs, but the key is to eat them all the time, rather than a few hours or half a day before you're running, since they take a day or two to be processed into usable muscle glycogen. Aerobic athletes also like to suck down some carbs immediately after training too, because many believe they get absorbed particularly well right after you've depleted them.

        Generally, athletes want to limit their sugar intake, and it's not really a great idea to have anything with sugar BEFORE running, but surprisingly, research has shown that consuming a little sugar DURING aerobic exercise really helps your endurance. Similarly, if you don't mind caffeine, it seems to increase the amount of body fat burned during aerobic activity, which normally doesn't get burned at all until after you've depleted your entire glycogen store.

        I'd also avoid eating a few hours before running, and ideally, run on an empty stomach, suck some simple carbs in your running water, some complex carbs right after, and wait until you've showered and relaxed a bit before eating a full meal with your proteins for muscle repair.

        Salt tablets are totally unnecessary unless you're running in 100 degree weather and just pouring sweat. Potassium, on the other hand is a good supplement to have, especially if you've ever experienced muscle cramping. Bananas have a lot as far as foods go, but I'd get a bottle of store brand potassium or chelated potassium gluconate and just take one 500 or 600 mg pill once a day with a full glass of water or a meal, which will keep you from becoming dehydrated.

        Dehydration is a funny thing too. For one thing, by the time you experience thirst, it's too late to catch up. There's always a lag between dehydration and the onset of thirst, so you want to drink a full glass of water before you run, whether you're thirsty or not at the time.

        I'm not a source of any advanced running advice, but I hope that's helpfull for now OK?

        <small>[ 06-11-2003, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: ProWritingServices4LEOs ]</small>
        No longer ignoring anybody here, since that psycho known as "Josey Wales" finally got the boot after being outed as a LE imposter by B&G978. Nice job.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks Pro. Shoes aren't a problem right now since I just purchased some good ones. I think they were probably a problem in the past, not because they were cheap or ill-fitting, I simply wore them out and was too cheap to replace them when I should have. Always running on asphalt or concrete probably doesn't help either.

          I've been trying to change my eating habits the last couple of weeks to eat less more often and take vitamins. I could probably do better on reducing my fat intake but I'm pretty careful about it anyway. Do you have any advice on caloric intake? (seemingly) All nutrition information label info is based on a 2,000 calorie diet. If I'm running 4-5 times per week 3-4 mile at a time, I should be taking in more than 2,000 calories right?
          On the wings of a dove
          Let's roll for justice
          Let's roll for truth
          Let's not let our children grow up
          Fearful in their youth -- Neil Young

          Comment


          • #6
            No problem Jar. As far as calories, I've always thought it makes a lot more sense to focus on eliminating certain types of foods rather than actually counting calories.

            For one thing, when you eliminate the types of foods that really have no place in a fitness conscious diet, you're already reducing your calories enough for dietetic purposes.

            The other reason is that not all calories are created equal: You can get away with eating more calories of low fat, low sugar calories, because even the excess get stored less as fat and burns more calories being converted to fat than high fat, high sugar foods do.

            I've found that when you focus on eliminating high fat/sugar foods by type you don't even have to bother counting calories, but more importantly, when you don't cut out (or down on) foods by type, you always feel like you're "dieting" and it's harder to stay under whatever calorie count you're shooting for.

            The beauty of controlling your weight by (mosly)eliminating fats and simple carbs is that it's much harder to eat too many calories of the right foods, and you can practically eat as much as you want (within reason, of course).

            Ultimately, any way you reduce your calorie intake will work...I just think it's easier and more effective to do it by eliminating classes of foods that contribute too many calories than to do it by ignoring what types of foods you eat and just keep a running tally of "calories".

            2000 sounds a little light for an active male, but you really need a basal metabolism test to determine your caloric needs accurately.
            No longer ignoring anybody here, since that psycho known as "Josey Wales" finally got the boot after being outed as a LE imposter by B&G978. Nice job.

            Comment


            • #7
              can you give some examples of foods thats are "simple carbs", "complex carbs", etc...?

              i find myself getting dehydrated fairly quickly when i run, even though i drink alot the day before running. ill normally drink about 4 gallons of water & gatorade the day before. its been in the 90's here for the past few days and ive been sweating up a storm even when im standing still.

              Comment


              • #8
                Sure Bro...I'm stuck in the same heat wave, just going from AC apartment to AC car and I sweated my ***** off getting some sun in the park Monday.

                You can't really store up water ahead of time because you just excrete it. The idea is just to make sure you're not at all dehydrated before you run outside and just drink consistently throughout hot days.

                Gatorade has a lot of salt, which contributes to dehydration, so water is probably better, and I take a potassium pill once a day if I'm outside in this weather at all.

                Complex carbs:

                Whole grain breads that say "whole wheat" or "oats" as their first ingredients instead of bleached flour. "Enriched Unbleached" is better than bleached, but whole wheat is more complex and preferable to any form of "white" bread. Brown rice is more complex than white rice, sweet potatoes more complex than regular potatoes, green spinach pastas, red tomato pastas, and semolina pastas are all more complex than white pasta. Beans, legumes, and vegetables like peas that aren't primarily cellulose (which is fine for you, too) are also complex carbs. All forms of sugar, whether table sugar or brown or maple syrup or honey are the simplest carbs of all.
                Cakes and cookies are all simple bleached flour and as often as not, they're not even the first ingredient because sugar is. Same goes for any cereal marketed to kids.

                If you check my earlier posts on the original Atkins thread before it deteriorated into a shouting match, I detailed other tips about reading labels and identifying foods with too much fat, sugar, and simple carbs.

                Just let me know if you have any more related questions.
                No longer ignoring anybody here, since that psycho known as "Josey Wales" finally got the boot after being outed as a LE imposter by B&G978. Nice job.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I compared the labels of Gatorade and Powerade and found that Powerade has half the sodium of Gatorade. 4 servings per 32oz bottle at 110mg and 55mg per serving. Is that still too much sodium to be effective as a hydrating agent? The drinks are equal in other listed nutrition information.

                  10-13,

                  It's a good idea to drink water the day before you run, 4 gallons seems excessive to me but I have a hard time drinking 6-8 glasses a day. But it's also important to drink water the day you run. No matter how much water you drink the day before you run, you don't drink any water overnight so you wake up somewhat dehydrated in the morning.
                  On the wings of a dove
                  Let's roll for justice
                  Let's roll for truth
                  Let's not let our children grow up
                  Fearful in their youth -- Neil Young

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You know what Jar? I don't think that amount of sodium is a big issue to anybody who isn't supposed to be on a salt-restricted diet for medical reasons. It's not really that 110mg of sodium in a soft drink is so terrible...it's just that sodium is the last thing you need when you're already worried about dehydration and trying to rehydrate yourself.

                    I don't think either of those drinks is particularly "bad" if you like them...but it's kinda stupid that something like Gatorade which is specifically marketed to combat exercise related dehydration is LESS effective than plain water for that purpose. I'd probably be more likely to drink Gatorade as a "soft drink" at home if I liked it than to use it when I was worried about dehydration. In my experience sedentary females seem more sensitive to sodium related water retention than male athletes, but it varies from person to person.

                    <small>[ 06-28-2003, 03:22 AM: Message edited by: ProWritingServices4LEOs ]</small>
                    No longer ignoring anybody here, since that psycho known as "Josey Wales" finally got the boot after being outed as a LE imposter by B&G978. Nice job.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      pro, thanks for the info.

                      ill post back if i have more questions.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Do you have any tips on how I can stregthen my shoulders (whole upper body, really) and my legs. I would benefit from all over strength, but those are my weak spots from the accident.
                        Here is the low down on what happened to what, surgery and and residual stuff....
                        fracture of right wrist, fracture of left clavicle with subluxed (????) shoulder and ligament & tendon rupture in right knee (acl, pcl, mcl, lcl, and patellar tendon)
                        I had a external fixation on my wrist and only have occasional crampy feelings and cannot flex my thumb...I can do the opposable thing, just cant flex it. My shoulder gets stiff and achy and does some funny clicking sometimes..probs with bursitis, my knee just gets a little bursitis every now and then.....need quad strength...I have had a complete allograft of the tendons/ligs that ruptured...cadaver parts and my patellar tendon is a graft made of who knows what. I am Frankenstein, basically.
                        Overall, my muscles surrounding those post injury things are pretty weak and I know they could benefit from regular massage and strength training. Every P.T I go to just does stuff to help relieve my bursitis in whatever joint and will only do what doc says to do because insurance will only pay for what is prescribed.
                        My knee is pretty stable considering; I did have someone at the Y teach me some stuff using weights, but I swear, I thought my tibia was going in the opposite direction as my femur, so I stopped....last thing I need is to rip those collaterals again, huh.
                        Any tips? I would appreciate any you may have. Ask as many questions as you want...I am beyond getting my feelings hurt or getting upset about talking about the accident and injuries....
                        Thanks!
                        "You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas."
                        Davy Crockett

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Bunny, in your situation, I wouldn't trust anybody who presumed to offer workout advice on-line at all. It's hard enough to help people, in general, without seeing them in person, and any on-line training tips are necessarily more general than in-person training advice.

                          Even "standard" athletic injuries and surgical repairs (those with which trainers are familiar) complicate the prospect, but MV accidents produce UNIQUE injuries with their own sets of physical idiosyncrasies and limitations that you have to work around, which makes giving specific exercise advice impossible in absentia.

                          If you're still rehabbing anything, then you need to focus more on the isometric types of exercises that they do in physical therapy sessions, and on the stretching and range-of-motion stuff they work on in PT. There's very little you can do in gyms, unless your PT gives you a program at a gym whose equipment he/she's familiar with.

                          Even if you're all done with rehab, strengthening shoulders is a much different thing for someone with a history of injury or past problems with the joint and it can't be done from afar. In my opinion, one of the best exercises for your shoulder would be running...as in AWAY from any trainer who'd try to give someone with your injury history any specific exercise recommendation via the Internet ok?
                          No longer ignoring anybody here, since that psycho known as "Josey Wales" finally got the boot after being outed as a LE imposter by B&G978. Nice job.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks Pro..appreciate the advice! Sorry I took so long to get back to you..I was on vacation. I got a massage while away and.....that helped that clicky feeling in my shoulder.
                            I will stick to my isometric exercises that I was taught and use my stationary bike....start walking....etc.
                            "You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas."
                            Davy Crockett

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Speed Training for jarhead6073

                              jarhead6073 - some good training programs for increasing you speed can be found from a gentleman by the name of Hal Higdon. He is a worldclass runner and has develop training programs for all levels of running that are available for free on his web site - www.halhigdon.com. Check out the intermediate or advanced programs for the 5k - they'll have speed work like 400 intervals, and tempor runs which are good - you may even find hill work which will help. He also has a great book called "Run Fast" (by Hal Higdon obviously) which I would also recomend. Let me know how it goes and what you think of the availble programs.
                              "Rangers Lead The Way!"
                              "Sua Sponte"
                              "Illigitimi non carborundum!"

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