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  • ready2go
    replied
    good feedback..

    i believe you may have the wrong company in that study you posted. the company for C HCL has a patent on the product and is called ProMera. the company in that study is Proviant i believe.

    Leave a comment:


  • WillBrink
    replied
    Originally posted by ready2go View Post
    interesting. i was not aware of the loading study. i never load creatine. i usually take in 10 grams a day..5g pre workout and 5g post workout.

    Pretty much all you could ever need to know on CM:

    www.Creatine-report.com

    On the above, the people who did that "study" are the same people who invented of CEE...

    They are currently in a lawsuit:

    http://www.itcblog.com/wp-content/up...dcomplaint.pdf

    There's probably nothing wrong per se with creatine hydrochloride, again,
    ultimately, the proof is in mass and strength performance, and much of what they have claimed in this study, is counter to actual published data.

    Color me not impressed....

    Leave a comment:


  • ready2go
    replied
    interesting. i was not aware of the loading study. i never load creatine. i usually take in 10 grams a day..5g pre workout and 5g post workout.

    Leave a comment:


  • WillBrink
    replied
    Originally posted by ready2go View Post
    there was a study done that showed this..The study conducted at The University of Nebraska Medical Center showed convincing evidence of a remarkable improvement in plasma uptake and bioavailability (up to 60% more soluble) of CON-CRET as compared to creatine monohydrate and all other popular forms...

    results from another study...
    •Oral bioavailability of creatine supplements is relatively low
    •Likely contributor is the low aqueous solubility of CRT relative to doses used
    •CRT HCl provides substantial improvement in aqueous solubility over other CRT supplements
    •CRT HCl has improved oral absorption compared to standard CRT mono formulation
    •Supplementation with CRT HCl provides a more efficient method for enhancing creatine levels in the body

    10 healthy subjects; each receive CRT Mono and CRT HCl; treatment order was randomly decided; 2 week washout period between treatments
    •CRT was administered (5 g Dose) with 6 fl. oz. cold water
    •Blood samples taken at, prior to, and 0.5, 1 and 2 and 3 hours after oral ingestion of creatine
    •Plasma creatine measured using HPLC

    you can see the charts here...http://www.sportsnutritionsociety.or...906_Miller.pdf

    study showed a 47% increase in plasma AUC in C HCL over CM..check it out tell me what you think.
    I'll give it a read, but I already see problems with the above. At the end of the day, compare CM to brand X in what actually matters: effects on strength, performance, or bodycomp, at equal doses, and show me wiz bang brand X was an improvements in those end points that actually matter to athletes... Beyond that, it's all mental masturbation....

    FYI:


    1. Vanakoski J, Kosunen V, Meririnne E, Seppala T. Creatine
    and caffeine in anaerobic and aerobic exercise: effects on
    physical performance and pharmacokinetic considerations. Int
    J Clin Pharmacol Ther. 1998 May;36(5):258-62.

    "Creatine was rapidly and efficiently absorbed, as reflected
    by plasma concentrations."

    2. M. Francaux, et.al. Effect of Exogenous Creatine
    Supplementation on Muscle PCr Metabolism Int J Sports Med;
    21:139-145

    "Following a single dose of creatine (5g), plasma creatine
    rises rapidly peaking one or two hours after the ingestion.
    Then it decreases to return to basal values within 8 hours
    after intake (unpublished data)."

    J Appl Physiol 1996 Jul;81(1):232-7 Muscle creatine loading
    in men. Hultman E, Soderlund K, Timmons JA, Cederblad G,
    Greenhaff PL

    The effect of dietary creatine and supplementation on
    skeletal muscle creatine accumulation and subsequent
    degradation and on urinary creatinine excretion was
    investigated in 31 male subjects who ingested creatine in
    different quantities over varying time periods. Muscle total
    creatine concentration increased by approximately 20% after
    6 days of creatine supplementation at a rate of 20 g/day.
    This elevated concentration was maintained when
    supplementation was continued at a rate of 2 g/day for a
    further 30 days. In the absence of 2 g/day supplementation,
    total creatine concentration gradually declined, such that
    30 days after the cessation of supplementation the
    concentration was no different from the presupplementation
    value. During this period, urinary creatinine excretion was
    correspondingly increased. A similar, but more gradual, 20%
    increase in muscle total creatine concentration was observed
    over a period of 28 days when supplementation was undertaken
    at a rate of 3 g/day. In conclusion, a rapid way to
    "creatine load" human skeletal muscle is to ingest 20 g of
    creatine for 6 days. This elevated tissue concentration can
    then be maintained by ingestion of 2 g/day thereafter. The
    ingestion of 3 g creatine/day is in the long term likely to
    be as effective at raising tissue levels as this higher
    dose.
    Last edited by WillBrink; 01-14-2010, 12:28 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ready2go
    replied
    Originally posted by WillBrink View Post
    Do they supply any legit studies to support that? Remember, blood levels may or may not reflect benefit. For example, if clearance from blood into compartments (eg, muscle) is quick, that's a good thing. Depends more on where and how it's cleared and where it goes...What you really want to see is a study comparing actual tissue levels of one vs the other. CM saturates muscle to 100%. Can't do better then that. Now, if the the other form can do that at say 50% of the dose it takes CM to achieve it (and remember, it only takes 3g of CM), then that may be a plus, but it's also exactly what the others claim, and so far, it's bunk. See:

    http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...ight=graveyard
    there was a study done that showed this..The study conducted at The University of Nebraska Medical Center showed convincing evidence of a remarkable improvement in plasma uptake and bioavailability (up to 60% more soluble) of CON-CRET as compared to creatine monohydrate and all other popular forms...

    results from another study...
    •Oral bioavailability of creatine supplements is relatively low
    •Likely contributor is the low aqueous solubility of CRT relative to doses used
    •CRT HCl provides substantial improvement in aqueous solubility over other CRT supplements
    •CRT HCl has improved oral absorption compared to standard CRT mono formulation
    •Supplementation with CRT HCl provides a more efficient method for enhancing creatine levels in the body

    10 healthy subjects; each receive CRT Mono and CRT HCl; treatment order was randomly decided; 2 week washout period between treatments
    •CRT was administered (5 g Dose) with 6 fl. oz. cold water
    •Blood samples taken at, prior to, and 0.5, 1 and 2 and 3 hours after oral ingestion of creatine
    •Plasma creatine measured using HPLC

    you can see the charts here...http://www.sportsnutritionsociety.or...906_Miller.pdf

    study showed a 47% increase in plasma AUC in C HCL over CM..check it out tell me what you think.

    Leave a comment:


  • WillBrink
    replied
    Originally posted by ready2go View Post
    interesting study. i haven't noticed much change since supplementing with it. i just thought i'd give it a shot. i am usually on CM year round so i figured a little break to give something else a try would be ok. i'll prob be back on the old CM after this bottle of CEE though anyway. there are just too many studies to support the use of CM to not use it. to be honest i really want to give that Creatine HCL a try by ProMera Health. i heard it raises Creatine levels in the blood for a substantial period of time as compared to CM and the serving is much less and a greater portion makes it to the blood and doesnt get lost in digestion.
    Do they supply any legit studies to support that? Remember, blood levels may or may not reflect benefit. For example, if clearance from blood into compartments (eg, muscle) is quick, that's a good thing. Depends more on where and how it's cleared and where it goes...What you really want to see is a study comparing actual tissue levels of one vs the other. CM saturates muscle to 100%. Can't do better then that. Now, if the the other form can do that at say 50% of the dose it takes CM to achieve it (and remember, it only takes 3g of CM), then that may be a plus, but it's also exactly what the others claim, and so far, it's bunk. See:

    http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...ight=graveyard

    Leave a comment:


  • WillBrink
    replied
    Originally posted by Dr. Peebody View Post
    what's it about creapure that you specifically suggest it?
    See "What's In Your Creatine?"

    Creapure, trade name for CM, is by far the purest source of CM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ready2go
    replied
    Originally posted by WillBrink View Post
    It's your $$$$, but here's my recent comments on CEE:

    CEE, The Poster Child For The “Graveyard”!
    interesting study. i haven't noticed much change since supplementing with it. i just thought i'd give it a shot. i am usually on CM year round so i figured a little break to give something else a try would be ok. i'll prob be back on the old CM after this bottle of CEE though anyway. there are just too many studies to support the use of CM to not use it. to be honest i really want to give that Creatine HCL a try by ProMera Health. i heard it raises Creatine levels in the blood for a substantial period of time as compared to CM and the serving is much less and a greater portion makes it to the blood and doesnt get lost in digestion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr. Peebody
    replied
    Originally posted by WillBrink View Post
    As for creatine, any brand that uses Creapure as their source of creatine monoyhdrate.
    what's it about creapure that you specifically suggest it?

    Leave a comment:


  • Irish in philly
    replied
    Hi guys i ordered the following after some research, will this help?
    ================================================== =======
    (1) Combo: Optimum 100% Whey Protein/MHP Activite Sport Stack, Delicious Strawberry Shipped From: PA
    (1) Optimum 100% Whey Protein, 5 Lbs., Delicious Strawberry: Kit - COMBO035E Shipped From: PA
    (1) MHP Activite Sport, 120 Tablets: Kit - COMBO035E Shipped From: PA
    ================================================== =======

    Leave a comment:


  • _GLOCK_
    replied
    Animal pak, fish oil, protein powder.

    Leave a comment:


  • WillBrink
    replied
    Originally posted by ready2go View Post
    i have been taking micronized creatine mono for years. recently i just started to try a pre workout supp (super pump 250) and i throw a scoop of micronized creatine ethyl ester in it. post workout i take 3 scoops of powdered gatorade (dextrose) and 5 grams of the ethyl ester in my protein shake as well as BCAAs. i have been doing this for about 2 weeks now. i feel good but we'll see how it goes. just trying something different.
    It's your $$$$, but here's my recent comments on CEE:

    CEE, The Poster Child For The “Graveyard”!

    Leave a comment:


  • ready2go
    replied
    Originally posted by WillBrink View Post
    You don't have to use Ultra Fuel per se either. You can get dextrose or malto in bulk. As for creatine, any brand that uses Creapure as their source of creatine monoyhdrate. I prefer it micronized as it's easier to mix. I like CFM whey isolates, but it's not essential to use that type of whey. To understand the different types of whey, read The Whey it Is.

    Look around my site for more info on the above. There's lot of info there.
    i have been taking micronized creatine mono for years. recently i just started to try a pre workout supp (super pump 250) and i throw a scoop of micronized creatine ethyl ester in it. post workout i take 3 scoops of powdered gatorade (dextrose) and 5 grams of the ethyl ester in my protein shake as well as BCAAs. i have been doing this for about 2 weeks now. i feel good but we'll see how it goes. just trying something different.

    Leave a comment:


  • POSr
    replied
    I really like the GNC MegaMan sport vita packs. I would only advise using them if you're training pretty hard.

    Leave a comment:


  • WillBrink
    replied
    Originally posted by Irish in philly View Post
    thanks a lot for the advice it is great to receive advice from a pro who knows what he is talking about, pardon my ignorance, i know you mentioned twinlab ultra fuel, is there a specific whey and creatine supplement you recommend, cheers Will for the help
    You don't have to use Ultra Fuel per se either. You can get dextrose or malto in bulk. As for creatine, any brand that uses Creapure as their source of creatine monoyhdrate. I prefer it micronized as it's easier to mix. I like CFM whey isolates, but it's not essential to use that type of whey. To understand the different types of whey, read The Whey it Is.

    Look around my site for more info on the above. There's lot of info there.

    Leave a comment:

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