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  • AR Question

    I recently went to a gun show and a dealer had AR’s marked “For Law Enforcement and Government Only.” He said that he can only sell the AR’s to law enforcement and not civilians. (I was not trying to buy one of these by the way) My question: Is this true? And if so, wouldn’t he only be able to sell the AR’s to an agency and not to the law enforcement officer looking for a personal AR?
    *There was nothing special about the AR except for the engraving on the lower.
    **For the state of INDIANA

  • #2
    If this was in Indiana and it was not a NFA weapon (SBR or Full Auto) then that dealer is a moron.

    The "LE/Gov" only markings occured on weapons produced during the last ban that were equipped with all the "evil" features. Since the Federal AWB sunset and Indiana DOES NOT have a State Assault Weapons Ban, the markings are meaningless.

    The only AR type weapons that are restricted in Indiana are post-86 full auto conversions. This is due to Federal Law not state law.
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
    8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

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    • #3
      Thank you for your reply. The AR’s were not SBR or Full Auto. This may be a dumb question: Do law enforcement officers that want a personal NFA rifle need to go through the ATF bs?

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      • #4
        Yep. I am saving for my SBR stamp for my new patrol rifle.

        DEPARTMENT purchases are tax-exempt, but they cannot be OWNED by individual officers and can only be posessed for duty use.
        "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
        8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

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        • #5
          A couple of fine details. Like he said the markings were a throw back to the AW ban days. Some states still follow the old guidelines for AW ban. Not Indiana. The only way these guns could have been LE only is if he was a direct rep of the manuf. selling FET off guns for dept. use. Which would be an odd guy to have at a gun show that was not an industry trade show type of things. He could have been an out of state dealer which means he could sell nothing but take orders and deliver to another dealer later.

          As for the NFA guns going to and from a dept. do not have a NFA tax so if your dept. bought a gun then later sold or gave it to an individual officer as a personal firearm, the transfer would be on form 5 tax free.

          Getting guns from a dept. is perfectly legal but if it is obviously done only to avoid the tax then there can be charges of tax evasion for that.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by David Hineline View Post
            if your dept. bought a gun then later sold or gave it to an individual officer as a personal firearm, the transfer would be on form 5 tax free.
            I believe this is incorrect. A transfer from a Department to an Individual (dosent matter if it is an officer or civilian) would be on a Form 4. It would be a $200 tax due sice it would not be an exempt transfer. The only way to avoid the tax would be an agency to agency transfer or agency to dealer. I am not 100% on that since I have not attempted that kind of transfer. Our department "traded" out MP-5's before I had a chance to see if they were transferrable or not. At worst you could submit the Form 5 and if it was incorrect and tax was due the NFA Branch would kick it back.

            Getting guns from a dept. is perfectly legal but if it is obviously done only to avoid the tax then there can be charges of tax evasion for that.
            Getting guns from a Department is perfectly legal as long as they were pre-86 and registered correctly. Otherwise they cannot be owned by an individual. I would love to own one of our new UMP 45's if there was a legal way to execute the transfer. Unfortunately it ain't going to happen until someone comes up with the cash to challenge the NFA on the grounds of the recent SCOTUS ruling (DC v. Heller).
            "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
            8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

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            • #7
              I am correct, no tax due buying or selling to a dept. the 86 and 68 thing for imports only effects machineguns, not any other NFA, silencers, short rifles, short shotguns, AOWs, and destructive devices can all transfer to qualified individuals.

              The 68ban does effect imported items. so if a dept had imported a semi auto short rifle and silencer after 68 it would be treated the same as a pre-dealer sample machinegun and not be transferable.

              Dept. confiscated weapons registered on form 10 for dept. use can only goto other depts.

              If you look on the form 5, section 1 you will notice where it wants the reason you qualify for tax exemption, the correct reason in this case, is to or from government dept. Also the CLEO signoff and spot for photo is on the form 5, so if it was only for dept to dept or dept to dealer or dealer to dept. there would be no need for the CLEO signoff or photo section. The form 5 is also used for inheritance of an estate which is also tax free.

              http://myweb.cableone.net/uziforme/f53205.pdf
              Last edited by David Hineline; 08-04-2008, 08:12 PM.

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