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  • "Mouse" Calibers?

    Ok, first, let me apologize in advance. I know this is probably a dumb question. But, in order to improve my limited knowledge of firearms, I have to ask.

    I was reading the article on the front page about off duty weapons (http://www.officer.com/web/online/Op...ry-Gun/3$41737). When talking about caliber choices, it says to avoid the "mouse" calibers. The examples it gives of acceptable calibers are .45 ACP, .40 S&W, and 9mm.

    Unless my math is wrong, isn't the .357 larger than the 9mm? Is it just a less popular caliber, and therefore left out of the list? If so, what qualifies as a "mouse" caliber? The only commonly available round "south of 9mm" that I can think of is the .22, which from my understanding is widely regarded as useful for plinking and not much else, definitely not for off duty protection.

    Am I missing something, or am I just dumb? (or both)

  • #2
    The term "Mouse Caliber" commonly refers the .22's , .25auto, .32auto, .32 non magnum revolver, .380 & the 9mm Mak. I may have missed one but those are the ones that come to mind right now.

    Stay Safe

    Fyr
    Forti Fors Bona

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by fyrdog View Post
      The term "Mouse Caliber" commonly refers the .22's , .25auto, .32auto, .32 non magnum revolver, .380 & the 9mm Mak. I may have missed one but those are the ones that come to mind right now.

      Stay Safe

      Fyr
      X2
      The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

      Comment


      • #4
        Agreed.
        Do NOT let a derogatory term steer you away from some very viable calibers. Both the .380 and 9mm Mak are VERY serviceable as self-defense rounds when loaded with GOOD hollowpoint ammunition. Even the lowly .32acp can be effective when loaded with the silvertip ammo.
        Don't misunderstand me, all else being equal (shot placement etc...) they are not as effective as full power service rounds.
        Even the .22 magnum when fired out of a 4 inch barrel is serious medicine.

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        • #5
          Also, 9mm, .38, and .357 mag are all the same diameter.
          "Too many times, too many times payin' the price, just for the thrill" - Tesla

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          • #6
            Thanks. I figured there was something I was missing.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DaisyCutter;
              Also, 9mm, .38, and .357 mag are all the same diameter.

              ...and .380 (9mm short).
              Politically Correct? No.

              Truthful? Yes!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by fdkay;
                Agreed.
                Do NOT let a derogatory term steer you away from some very viable calibers. Both the .380 and 9mm Mak are VERY serviceable as self-defense rounds when loaded with GOOD hollowpoint ammunition. Even the lowly .32acp can be effective when loaded with the silvertip ammo.
                Don't misunderstand me, all else being equal (shot placement etc...) they are not as effective as full power service rounds.
                Even the .22 magnum when fired out of a 4 inch barrel is serious medicine.

                True. So-called "mouse calibers" can be very effective as close-in self defense rounds, if loaded with the proper bullet in front of the round.

                +1.
                Politically Correct? No.

                Truthful? Yes!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DaisyCutter View Post
                  Also, 9mm, .38, and .357 mag are all the same diameter.
                  Daisy Cutter is pretty much spot on - as is whoever added 380

                  however, 9mm and 380s are supposed to be cut to .355- though they rarely are in my experience. (not that my experience means much mind you) Some run upwards of .357.

                  38/357 'should be' cut at .357 but some are often oversized here as well. depends a lot on manufacturing process.

                  I size all my 9mm projectiles to .357 and my 38spl /357mag to .359 or .360 if I can stuff em in the cylinders.

                  if your shooting lead you wanna be a bit over groove diameter, for best shooting. I learned that from Castboolits. Those guys have this stuff figured otu to a science.

                  just like everything else its a balancing act though- and I'm still learning.

                  If you wanna mess with that stuff I'd say check out Castboolits- they know way more than I do.

                  as a funny aside, 9mm maks can run upwards of .365, technically giving them potential for a larger meplat than any of the aforementioned calibers.

                  9mm mak is a fun cartridge too if you wanna give it a chance. you can trim 9x19 brass down to 9x18 and flair it to use in 9mm mak dies for reloading. pain in the rear but it works.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I second most of what was stated, however I want to emphasize that "mouse guns" should NOT be relied upon as a primary weapon.

                    The first rule of gunfighting is BRING A GUN!
                    The second rule of gunfighting is BRING ENOUGH GUN!

                    Of course the final rule of gunfighting is if you know there is going to be a gunfight, STAY HOME!
                    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
                    8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

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                    • #11
                      The saying is: "Friends don't let friends carry mouse guns!"

                      While there have been improvements in these sub-calibers, I, for one, am unwilling to bet my life on one. With the very small 9mm autos & .38 revolvers, there is no reason to carry a smaller caliber.
                      The base problem with mouse guns is, people THINK they are armed. Allied with that is the tendency to start carrying the mouse gun off duty.

                      By the time you get to your backup gun, things are really, really bad, and heading for worse. Is that the time to trust your life to a mouse gun?
                      Not me. Of course, your decision may vary.
                      "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
                      John Stuart Mill

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                      • #12
                        True. So-called "mouse calibers" can be very effective as close-in self defense rounds, if loaded with the proper bullet in front of the round.
                        Sure. If you want to shoot someone that is asleep.

                        But you wont, because most of yall here are cops, or soon to be.
                        Meaning that if you have to shoot someone, there is an 85 % chance that,that person will be drunk,on drugs,scared, extremely agitated,be running on adrenaline or all of the above.

                        They may have a weapon, they may be suicidal, they may want to take you with them. They may have already murdered and have no qualms about doing it again. It could be that you are the only thing standing between them and freedom...and you wanto bet your life on a mousegun???

                        As a matter of fact, every caliber out there is capable of killing and each does so on a regular basis. The thing is, if you shoot and do not incapacitate, they are still a threat. If they kill you and then die, they win.

                        The other day a man known well to me shot himself though the calf with a .380 Kel Tec. The Winchester SilverTip went downward though his calf and hit the floor of the SUV in which he was exiting. He had carried the gun in his front pocket, along with a set of keys. As he placed the set of keys in his front pocket, it apparently fouled the trigger and discharged. He recovered the bullet, it was in almost perfect condition, it had'nt mushroomed at all. He spent a few hours in the hospital, limped around for 4 or 5 days and gets along just fine now.

                        My dept allows backup guns in no less than .38 special. The mouse guns are not allowed.

                        Also, consider this.
                        A handgun is a compromise. We carry them and use them because they are handy. Handguns lack in true "stopping power".
                        We've all heard of the crackhead or methhead that got shot 13 times with a .45 and lived to tell about it.

                        If, God forbid, I do have to draw and shoot, I want it to stop right then, right there.

                        If you do have to use your backup gun, you are in a world of hurt. You have ethier run your primary dry, or the perp has yours, or is trying to get it. The backup needs to hit hard and hit often. When the emotions are high and the adrenaline is running at full tempo...you'll want the biggest caliber that you can shoot.
                        "The American People will never knowingly adopt Socialism. Under the name of "liberalism" they will adopt every segment of the socialist program,until one day America will be a socialist nation without knowing how it happened."

                        Norman Thomas

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          ALL handguns are compromises. Even .45's.

                          When going to a gunfight, bring a gun. Better yet, bring two - and make sure the other one is a rifle.

                          I've worked a lot of homicides in my time, and a large percentage of the victims were killed by so-called "mouse guns." And NONE of the victims had been sleeping, as far as the evidence showed. And I've even seen and heard of people get T&R'd after being hit with a .45.

                          There is a lot of hype and distortion when it comes to so-called "stopping power" of large calibers. It ain't always about the size or velocity of the fired bullet. It's ALL about shot placement.

                          Always.

                          Everything else being equal, a larger caliber will of course make a larger hole, and a higher muzzle velocity will of course penetrate deeper. However, I've seen too many dead victims of smaller caliber rounds to know that a smaller caliber weapon can be very effective as a close-in defensive weapon.

                          My opinion is based on facts encountered at real crime scenes, and the results of (un-scientific) ballistic field tests conducted by my agency using a variety of ammunition.

                          Reality. Not hype.
                          Politically Correct? No.

                          Truthful? Yes!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I remember that one PNP wanted to give me a .45 and my wife a .25 for wedding presents. One of my stateside buddies comment was, "I'd get pretty 'tick'ed off if someone shot me with a .25 and I ever found out about it."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by cmr164 View Post
                              I remember that one PNP wanted to give me a .45 and my wife a .25 for wedding presents. One of my stateside buddies comment was, "I'd get pretty 'tick'ed off if someone shot me with a .25 and I ever found out about it."
                              Depends on where you're hit.



                              I can exact some serious damage on the core area of even the meanest baddest SOB, using a so-called mouse gun. It's all about where you put them.
                              Politically Correct? No.

                              Truthful? Yes!

                              Comment

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