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1911 cocked w/o thumb safety on in retention holster

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  • 1911 cocked w/o thumb safety on in retention holster

    ........................
    Last edited by toasterlocker; 07-05-2013, 03:18 PM.

  • #2
    The 1911 is best carried with the thumb safety engaged. Virtually no one (that I'm aware of) teaches that it should be carried cocked and unlocked. Although the XD, Glock and other pistols have a "pre-cocked" DAO design, other safeties on the weapon are designed to prevent negligent discharges.
    "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

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    • #3
      Originally posted by pulicords View Post
      The 1911 is best carried with the thumb safety engaged. Virtually no one (that I'm aware of) teaches that it should be carried cocked and unlocked. Although the XD, Glock and other pistols have a "pre-cocked" DAO design, other safeties on the weapon are designed to prevent negligent discharges.
      I agree with the above post. I wouldn't carry a 1911 unless it's cocked and locked though the truth of the matter is neither the XD or the 1911 will fire unless it's held thanks to the addition of the "grip safety" which to me is a good thing. For that reason the XD is probably the safest standard striker fired pistol out there. With a Glock and the M&P standard models tht dont have the new offered manual safety sure the triggers are set up in "stages" so there has to be a deliberate "pull" for it to fire where the trigger comes halfway when pulled to a friction point then after that "bang". They have "drop' safeties so they wont fire unless pulled you can bang away with a hammer on the rear of the slide and nothing will make them fire but non of tht will help if a piece of the holster folds over on a reholster placement and the plastic of a high riding kydex holster gets caught in the trigger guard and then "bang' that is the only bad thing about those striker fired pistols with no manual safety...just something to think about.
      "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. The MARINES don't have that problem." ....Ronald Reagan

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      • #4
        I really dont see the problem. I carry a Sig 220 DA/SA and it does not have a manual safety on it. Only a decocker. So even though i carry it in my holster on DA There is still no safety for the trigger.

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        • #5
          I still wouldn't carry a 1911 without the safety engaged, all it takes when going hands on reholstering under duress is a enough pressure to the trigger for it to discharge and send a nice JHP .45ACP round down one's leg. The safety is there for good reason on a 1911. Not such an issue with a GLOCK (long single action trigger pull essentially) or DA/SA SIG with a longer trigger pull. Yes, safety is between the ears and keeping the trigger finger off the trigger, but Murphy does come a calling when least expected. Cocked-and-LOCKED is the way to go IMHO.

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          • #6
            Tmg
            I really dont see the problem. I carry a Sig 220 DA/SA and it does not have a manual safety on it. Only a decocker. So even though i carry it in my holster on DA There is still no safety for the trigger.
            Tmg,

            There is a big difference between a DA/SA weapon carried in the DA mode and a SA only weapon like the 1911. It takes a lot more force to complete that long DA trigger pull than the short crisp trigger pull on a 1911. So with the SA only weapon all of the mechanical energy needed to fire the weapon is already stored and in a state of readiness within the weapon, with a DA/SA weapon an outside force (hopefully you) has to bring that mechanical energy to a state of readiness for the first shot. Plus if you read up on your SIG 220, I'll bet that some where in the instructions it tells you not to carry the weapon holstered in a Single Action state.

            I realize that a lot of folks like to quote the JMB didn't design the 1911 with a thumb safety, and that the army brass made him put it on the weapon. Well big deal Stoner didn't design the M-16 with a chromed lined bore and chamber, but the army put one on it anyway. I don't here folks complaining about that. And also remember that not every weapon designed by JMB was a raving success at first, and some that worked ok were still later modified in order to deal with problems discovered in the design.

            Ok rant over,

            While I'm not a huge fan of the 1911, and prefer my revolvers to it; I do know enough, to know that the weapon should always be carried "Cocked & LOCKED", not just cocked.

            Stay Safe

            Fyr
            Forti Fors Bona

            Comment


            • #7
              Carrying a 1911 cocked and not locked is an invitation to a .45cal ditch down the side of your leg.

              The ONLY acceptable way to carry a defensive 1911 is cocked and locked. If you are to skittish or too stupid to carry this way then you need to find a new weapon (or don't carry one at all).

              XDs and Glocks are STRIKER FIRED. It's a totally different system. DAO autos and revolvers are totally at rest prior to you pulling the trigger. This combined with the long heavy trigger is a safety in itself.
              "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
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              • #8
                Although I have no problem drawing a 1911 and naturally sweeping off the thumb safety, I don't think that carrying it in a holster with the safety off is that big of a deal. To fire the grip safety must still be depressed and then the trigger pulled. The hammer is not going to fall by itself and many 1911s now have a firing pin safety so it wouldn't matter if the hammer did magically fell. If you have your finger on the trigger when you jam the thing back into your holster in a stressful situation then it's going to fire whether it be a 1911, Glock, or Sig.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sabre View Post
                  many 1911s now have a firing pin safety so it wouldn't matter if the hammer did magically fell.
                  To the best of my knowledge, the firing pin safety is only activated when the thumb safety is engaged. Cocked and locked is the safe way to carry these types of pistols.
                  "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

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                  • #10
                    I also like to pull the pins on my flashbangs and stuff em in the pouches.
                    The comments made herein are those solely of author and in no way reflect the opinions of any other person, agency or other entity.

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                    • #11
                      I got some good "mechanical" explanations on some other forums. Thanks guys.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Surf View Post
                        I also like to pull the pins on my flashbangs and stuff em in the pouches.
                        Surf, would it be more fun to drop them in a trunk thumper?
                        sigpic

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                        • #13
                          Some of the newer series 1911s have firing pin blocks, however as stated before, the only safe ways to carry a single action auto is cocked and safety on, or loaded magazine and nothing in the chamber. The latter option I do not advocate.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by pulicords View Post
                            To the best of my knowledge, the firing pin safety is only activated when the thumb safety is engaged. Cocked and locked is the safe way to carry these types of pistols.
                            The firing pin safety on a Colt Series 80 is connected to the trigger. Pulling the trigger actuates a lever which lifts the block off the firing pin, freeing it.

                            The Kimber Schwartz Safety is connected to the grip safety. Depressing it does the same as above.

                            Other manufacturers also have their own version of a firing pin safety, but as far as I know they all run off of the grip safety. No firing pin safety that I am aware of is connected to the thumb safety. The thumb safety only locks the sear.

                            Taking the thumb safety off does not suddenly make the very safe 1911-style pistol a dangerous contraption, ready to spontaneously fire with no warning. I agree that the proper way to do it is to carry with the safety on and train so that disengaging it is part of muscle memory, but carrying with it off doesn't make it unsafe.

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                            • #15
                              I think we can all agree that the 1911 won't spontaneously go bang when carried unlocked.....

                              But I would think that the biggest liability would come from EXPECTING the safety to be off and not being in the habit of sweeping it off with every draw. Cause it only takes half a second to be on the wrong end of a gunfight if the safety somehow were ON and you didn't incorporate sweeping it to off during the draw stroke.

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