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  • Originally posted by jwise View Post
    Reliability is paramount, but price is a consideration for me as well. I chose the Rock River Arms 2-stage National Match trigger, which is a NON-adjustable trigger. That is important, because adjustable triggers are a recipe for disaster (in my experience.) I have several of these triggers, and have never had any problems with them. They sell for about $125, which is half the price of the next best option (KAC 2-stage.)
    I would have to disagree with jwise on triggers here. RRA and KAC triggers are pretty good. KAC used to be the Army's 2-stage trigger. BUT, I've read too many reports of these triggers failing (loosing the second stage). I'm glad you have had good experiences with them, but I would never put one in a duty rifle. Plinking rifle? Sure.

    The Geissele SSA is a specifically designed, 2-stage, combat trigger. It has been around for a while and have not heard of a failure of the SSA. If you can find one, they normally go for around $150-$200. The Army has dropped KAC in favor of Geissele triggers.

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    • Originally posted by jwise View Post
      I believe it turns, but not easily.
      OK, I finally got to shoot the thing Friday & again today. I figured this out. Apparently the factory torqued the focus all the way CW so it was pretty stuck. One it broke loose it behaves normally. Fine scope - I like it. Reviews I've read say without the ilumination on that the reticle is "useless", but at the range for zeroing in broad daylight it works just fine. I was shooting it from my Caldwell Lead Sled to zero and check accuracy, with 90's vintage Q3131A on Friday and new-from-Dicks-yesterday Federal AE XM193 today. I was shooting those Winchester/Birchwood Casey targets with the 1" grid and a 1" red bull at the center & 1/2" red bulld two grids diagonal from each corner. At 50 yards, the dot in the K-dot exactly covers the 1" red bull, so lining up the shot was cake - just hide all the red!

      Now the mystery... for BUIS I installed the tritium version of the Troy flip-up sight, and put a Trijicon tritium front post in. Someplace in this thread (I think) I read that there is a danger of a "busy" sight picture in the dark with an illuminated retical optic & a cowitness tritium BUIS. However, testing it in pitch black darkness the K-dot was so much brighter and red vs green that it wasn't an issue. In fact, I couldn't tell where the K-Dot was in reference to the circle of the scope, so it seems like with practice I could learn how far it should be above the green glow of the Trijicon and get a better result. Just an idea... you pros tell me if I'm all wet!

      OK, that wasn't the mystery, just background... get to the purnt, Edith! The mystery is how come I was shooting tighter groups at 50 yards with the BUIS than with the K-Dot cranked up to 4X? Totally counter-intuitive. Sure, I expect under stress in rapid fire comparing the K-dot with the illumination on at 1x to the BUIS that the former will win out. I'm taking a basic carbine course at TDI in SW Ohio in a couple of weeks, so I'll probably find out. However, it still seems odd that even in bench conditions iron sites would beat a 4x scope (only slightly, but I expected a huge advantage to the scope). Can some shooting guru 'splain it to me?
      Last edited by Barnacle Bill; 08-02-2009, 09:47 PM.

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      • I would sure check all the mounting and the like on the optic, worse accuracy with a magnification optic at 50yds than with open irong makes not sense unless it is not holding a mechanical zero for some reason.

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        • Originally posted by David Hineline View Post
          I would sure check all the mounting and the like on the optic, worse accuracy with a magnification optic at 50yds than with open irong makes not sense unless it is not holding a mechanical zero for some reason.
          The mount seems rock solid, best as I can tell. The advantage in terms of actual results is very slight, maybe subjective, but what throws me is that with the optic I can see the target clear as the one sitting on the table beside my laptop as I type this, while with my naked 50-year-old eyes squinting through the BUIS I'm more or less aiming at center of mass on the 1 ft square target paper, because I can't really see the markings on the paper that well. So, I'd expect the optic to deliver noticably tighter groups and that isn't happening. It's not that the BUIS groups are bad - I was pleasantly surprised when I looked through my 60x spotting scope and saw what I saw. I just am baffled as to why the optic-assisted groups are not substantially better.

          Edit - on reflection, it may be that the Caldwell rest is hurting more than it is helping (or I'm missing something in how I use it). The butt goes in the rest, and the shooter's body is not at all in a normal relationship to the weapon, so I may be getting an inconsistent cheek position on the stock. 10 shot groups are coming out considerably wider than they are tall with the scope or irons, so I'm probably getting more side-to-side variation in head position. Maybe irons are more forgiving of this. Next chance I get, I'll try with just a normal rest under the forearm and see if that improves things.
          Last edited by Barnacle Bill; 08-03-2009, 05:40 AM.

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          • Originally posted by beavo451 View Post
            I would have to disagree with jwise on triggers here. RRA and KAC triggers are pretty good. KAC used to be the Army's 2-stage trigger. BUT, I've read too many reports of these triggers failing (loosing the second stage). I'm glad you have had good experiences with them, but I would never put one in a duty rifle. Plinking rifle? Sure.

            The Geissele SSA is a specifically designed, 2-stage, combat trigger. It has been around for a while and have not heard of a failure of the SSA. If you can find one, they normally go for around $150-$200. The Army has dropped KAC in favor of Geissele triggers.
            To clarify, I've never heard of a RRA 2-stage trigger failing to WORK. I have heard of them losing the second stage, which makes them feel just like standard single stage stock triggers. They still go bang.

            Is this consistent with the KAC triggers? Regardless, if the Geissele SSA is a 2-stage combat trigger, it sounds like a winner. I just don't have any experience with them.
            J. Wise

            AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

            "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

            Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

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            • Originally posted by jwise View Post
              To clarify, I've never heard of a RRA 2-stage trigger failing to WORK. I have heard of them losing the second stage, which makes them feel just like standard single stage stock triggers. They still go bang.

              Is this consistent with the KAC triggers? Regardless, if the Geissele SSA is a 2-stage combat trigger, it sounds like a winner. I just don't have any experience with them.
              I've also heard that when the triggers loose their second stage, the pull becomes inconsistent and unpredicatabe. I've never experienced it myself as I don't have any RRA 2-stage triggers. I'm trying to save up for a Geissele.

              The KAC triggers have reported to fail as low as 3000 rds.

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              • Good to know. Thanks for staying on top of the latest, Beavo!
                J. Wise

                AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

                "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

                Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

                sigpic

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                • Very basic light reco?

                  I wasn't originally planning to get a light, because it seemed like night sights covered it well enough for non-LE use. However, I'm going to a class next weekend (14-16) and they say I need one because we'll be night shooting Saturday. I don't want to spend a fortune, because I won't be using it that much, but it has to get me through my class. The only rail on the rifle is the receiver top, which is already full of optic & BUIS. I won't be installing rail handguards in the timeframe we're talking, so I need a solution that works without it. Ideally I'd like to keep the total cost (light & mount) under a C-note.

                  Recommendations?

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                  • Originally posted by Barnacle Bill View Post
                    I wasn't originally planning to get a light, because it seemed like night sights covered it well enough for non-LE use. However, I'm going to a class next weekend (14-16) and they say I need one because we'll be night shooting Saturday. I don't want to spend a fortune, because I won't be using it that much, but it has to get me through my class. The only rail on the rifle is the receiver top, which is already full of optic & BUIS.
                    Recommendations?
                    I don't know brands and prices right off the top of my head, but at least one company makes an offset mount that just takes up a little space on the rail, while it puts the light at the other end of it. Hangs it off to one side, as it were.

                    Maybe the Sportsman's Guide or Cheaper Than Dirt would have something workable, in the price range you mentioned.
                    --
                    Capital Punishment means never having to say "you again?"

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                    • It looks like OpticsPlanet has a Streamlight TLR-3 for $79.85 and a CAA bayonet lug mount for $44.99 - just a little over my target budget. Is this stuff OK?

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                      • Yeah, that should work just fine. That's pretty much the same setup I ran on my patrol rifle.
                        J. Wise

                        AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

                        "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

                        Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Barnacle Bill View Post
                          I wasn't originally planning to get a light, because it seemed like night sights covered it well enough for non-LE use.
                          Night sights let you hit the target in dim light. A weaponlight lets you identify the target in dim light.

                          To go cheap to get you through the course, you can get a rail that clamps through the vents in the handguards and put a $35 Surefire nitrolon on it.

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                          • So.. Got my flashlight mount for my Fenix TK-11 with pressure switch yesterday! The only thing is, the pressure switch has a rather long coiled cord... I'm unsure about what to do with all the excess cord.. Any suggestions or advice?

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                            • Originally posted by David Hineline View Post
                              I would sure check all the mounting and the like on the optic, worse accuracy with a magnification optic at 50yds than with open irong makes not sense unless it is not holding a mechanical zero for some reason.
                              You win a cookie! Turned out to be that the rear scope ring was loose enough for the scope to be wandering around on that end. I discovered this last night. I could avoid embarassment by keeping this to myself, but maybe somebody will benefit from the knowledge. Anyway, tightened down properly it is now capable of shooting roughly 3" 10-shot strings at 100 yards with the scope on 4X, shooting with elbows on the bench & my forearm hand resting on the rest, with XM193 ball. Not being Alvin York, that will do for now. So, I feel much better going into my class next weekend.

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                              • I generally suggest doing it right the first time. However.....

                                As for the light, if you really want to do it cheap you can do similar to what was mentioned above.

                                I AM NOT SUGGESTING THIS COMPANY. JUST USING THEM TO SHOW AN EXAMPLE

                                You could easily use an add on rail like this
                                http://www.botachtactical.com/mosydem4ha.html

                                Add a flashlight mount, maybe even an offset mount, and add your own light.
                                http://www.botachtactical.com/fmr.html
                                The comments made herein are those solely of author and in no way reflect the opinions of any other person, agency or other entity.

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