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  • Guatemalan ammo? Are you guys that cheap?
    The liberal politician has the only job where they go to the office to work for everyone but those who pay their salary.

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    • Originally posted by tony.o View Post
      Guatemalan ammo? Are you guys that cheap?
      tony, It was free. Can't get any cheaper than that.
      sigpic

      "Po Po coming through!" all rights reserved DJS



      'Do we really need 'smart bombs' to drop on these dumb bastards?'

      http://www.snipercompany.com/

      M16/AR15/M4 Armorer

      Comment


      • I am not going to knock it. I will shoot anything that will safely fire in my M4.
        "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
        8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

        Comment


        • Originally posted by zeplin View Post
          tony, It was free. Can't get any cheaper than that.
          Yeah, but if I won free plane tickets and found out that it was a flight on Guatemalan Airlines, I wouldn't board the plane.
          The liberal politician has the only job where they go to the office to work for everyone but those who pay their salary.

          Comment


          • Pallets and pallets of Guatemalan ammo came into the US. A few cases were heavily corroded, and should be scrapped. The VERY LARGE percentage of it was pristine, and was very good fodder.

            I am not quick to chalk this up to ammo. Most of the Guat I've seen/shot was on par with Federal XM193.
            J. Wise

            AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

            "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

            Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

            sigpic

            Comment


            • This is taken from AR15.com's "Ammo Oracle," which is a compilation of reviews of ammunition for AR-15 rifles.

              The numbers in parantheses list (in order): percentage of people WITHOUT problems, percentage of people with MINOR problems, percentage of people who won't use it.

              1) 22 responses (95.4% / 4.6% / 0.0%) Centurion/US Loosepack
              3) 1294 responses (94.3% / 4.1% / 1.6%) FEDERAL/LC XM193
              2) 767 responses (92.8% / 5.3% / 1.8%) WINCHESTER Q3131A / IMI M193
              4) 268 responses (94.4% / 3.7% / 1.9%) BLACK HILLS
              5) 723 responses (93.1% / 5.0% / 1.9%) WINCHESTER .223CAL
              6) 714 responses (93.0% / 4.2% / 2.8%) FEDERAL/AMERICAN EAGLE .223CAL
              7) 456 responses (92.8% / 3.3% / 3.9%) WINCHESTER Q3131
              8) 572 responses (88.5% / 7.5% / 4.0%) PMC
              11) 607 responses (83.5% / 12.2% / 4.3%) GUATEMALAN M193
              10) 112 responses (90.2% / 5.4% / 4.5%) Prvi Partizan/Monarch GREEN box
              9) 312 responses (87.8% / 7.7% / 4.5%) FEDERAL/LC XM855
              12) 1004 responses (86.9% / 8.7% / 4.5%) REMINGTON/UMC
              13) 145 responses (82.1% / 13.1% / 4.8%) GEORGIA ARMS
              14) 372 responses (80.9% / 12.4% / 6.7%) BARNAUL/BROWN Bear/BLUE box Monarch
              16) 457 responses (71.1% / 21.9% / 7.0%) FEDERAL/LC XM855PD/CS
              17) 998 responses (79.5% / 13.2% / 7.3%) RADWAY GREEN (ARCHIVED)
              15) 698 responses (84.2% / 8.2% / 7.7%) SELLIER & BELLOT
              18) 374 responses (85.0% / 7.0% / 8.0%) PMP (Soth African)
              19) 200 responses (81.5% / 9.5% / 9.0%) HUNTING SHACK MUNITIONS (HSM)
              20) 2120 responses (77.3% / 13.4% / 9.2%) WOLF (Polymer Coating)
              21) 697 responses (77.5% / 13.1% / 9.5%) WOLF/Prvi Partizan M193
              22) 160 responses (81.3% / 7.5% / 11.3%) IGMAN/HOTSHOT
              23) 700 responses (70.0% / 17.7% / 12.3%) ADCOM M855
              24) 540 responses (75.4% / 10.0% / 14.6%) SILVER BEAR
              25) 340 responses (72.9% / 12.4% / 14.7%) ULTRAMAX
              26) 270 responses (59.2% / 24.8% / 15.9%) FEDERAL/LC XM193PD (ARCHIVED)
              27) 115 responses (58.3% / 22.6% / 19.1%) SANTA BARBARA SS109 (ARCHIVED)
              28) 209 responses (66.0% / 6.7% / 27.3%) WOLF (Lacquer coating) (ARCHIVED)
              29) 166 responses (54.8% / 16.9% / 28.3%) NATEC polymer-cased (ARCHIVED)
              30) 115 responses (53.0% / 18.3% / 28.7%) MAINE CARTRIDGE CO. (ARCHIVED)
              31) 405 responses (42.7% / 8.6% / 48.6%) OLYMPIC (ARCHIVED)
              Last edited by jwise; 10-27-2008, 12:42 PM.
              J. Wise

              AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

              "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

              Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

              sigpic

              Comment


              • Haven't checked this thread in awhile.

                Zep, it does sound like a gas problem, or as mentioned "short stroking" but there are other potential problems that can mimick this.

                If you are sure that the ejector is not an issue, you need to consider the buffer and spring. Not all are necessarily created equal from one maker to another, so mixing and matching may cause issues. However if only one ammo type has issues, then I would probably rule this out.

                Do the locking lugs show any unusal looking wear? Chamber clean, free and clear of debris? With the bolt carrier assembly removed does the bolt freely move without issue? Does the bolt seem to positively lock when you manually cycle the weapon, by pulling the charging handle to the rear and quickly releasing it, and not riding the bolt forward? Now if you ride the bolt forward until it stops on the chamber without locking does it easily lock when you push on the forward assist?

                Now you also need to consider the upper itself. It may be slightly bleeding gas somewhere which may cause improper cycling of some rounds. In other words the Guatemalan rounds may be under powered but shoot OK in another weapon. However if your upper has a slight loss in gas somewhere it may cause intermittant cycling issues in your weapon where other rounds may not have that problem.

                Remove the bolt carrier group. Inspect the gas key. Does it look good? Any signs of bleeding gas? Now with the weapon open when you replace the charging handle and the bolt carrier, with the muzzle pointing down, ease the carrier into the upper receiver and ride the carrier until it stops on the lugs without positvely locking. Now slightly tap down on the end of the carrier until it clicks into place. Does it feel like it hangs up at all? This is hard to describe for the feel and generally comes with a lot of experience of feeling how a misaligned tube feels when replacing a carrier. If it feels like it does not easily mate it can be the locking lugs or a mis-aligned gas tube which is not mating up properly, slightly off center of the gas key. Does the gas tube look like it passes through the barrel nut perfectly centered without touching? Misalignment of the tube will more usually touch the barrel nut. This can cause a slight gas issue, which can mimick the failure that you are talking about. It may not always cause a problem but some under powered rounds may have intermittant issues.

                Other issues may be with the gas hole in the barrel out of spec or front sight mating problem to the gas system. All in all the type of failure you describe does sound like a gas issue. Wether a problem with the rounds themselves, or an issue somewhere in the weapons gas system. It is hard to diagnose without having the weapon in hand. Even then it may still not be easy to diagnose.

                Keep us updated as to how its shooting when you go out again.
                Last edited by Surf; 10-27-2008, 04:43 PM.
                The comments made herein are those solely of author and in no way reflect the opinions of any other person, agency or other entity.

                Surfs Up on youtube!

                Specialized Services Group on Facebook!

                Comment


                • Hi jwise
                  First I want to thank you for taking up an unpaid part-time job on behalf of all of us future AR-15 owners. After taking your advise, I want to run my final build by you before I place my order. I am taking your advice wholeheartedly, so if anything doesn't quite make sense to you, please let me know.
                  -CMMG Upper-
                  A3 Semi-Auto
                  Gov Profile barrel 14.7" w/ permanent A2, 1/7 twist, chrome-lined 5.56 NATO
                  M4 feed ramps, extended/polished
                  Mid-Length gas/ Midlength handguard
                  A2 Post w/ Parkerizing under "F" marked FSB
                  M16 BCG w/ EGRESS Bolt Upgrade and CH "or"
                  BCM BCG MPI Auto M16 (about the same cost, which is better?)
                  Round Fwd Assist
                  Daniel Defense Omega Rail 9 Mid Length 2 pc (FDE)
                  LaRue Tactical BUIS
                  Eotech 512

                  -CMMG Lower (bought seperately of course)-
                  Magpul MIAD Full Grip (FDE) w/ gapper
                  Accu-Wedge
                  Magpul CTR Stock (FDE)

                  Besides asking which BCG option is better, I am still trying to find out with CMMG if I can get a 14.7" w/ permanent A2 in a middy (I know you like 16" but I want the absolute shortest barrel). If not I'll probably just get the 16" w/ threaded A2. Also, I still don't understand why the M16 BCG is preferred over the M4 version?

                  Comment


                  • jwise, You never cease to amaze me. Have considered writing a book about AR's?

                    Right after I got the AR's a little over a year ago, I had one Guat rd that was corroded on about 1/3 of the case. Didn't notice it until after I fired it. Seemed to have some extra BOOM to it. After that I Check them. Haven't found anymore that were anywhere near that corroded. I've got several vacuum sealed cases that I haven't opened yet. Hope they are in that pristine condition you mentioned.
                    sigpic

                    "Po Po coming through!" all rights reserved DJS



                    'Do we really need 'smart bombs' to drop on these dumb bastards?'

                    http://www.snipercompany.com/

                    M16/AR15/M4 Armorer

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Surf View Post
                      Haven't checked this thread in awhile.
                      Surf, I answer what I can in RED
                      Zep, it does sound like a gas problem, or as mentioned "short stroking" but there are other potential problems that can mimick this.

                      If you are sure that the ejector is not an issue, you need to consider the buffer and spring. Not all are necessarily created equal from one maker to another, so mixing and matching may cause issues. However if only one ammo type has issues, then I would probably rule this out.

                      Do the locking lugs show any unusal looking wear?It's a brand new upper. No noticeable signs of wear. Chamber clean, free and clear of debris? With the bolt carrier assembly removed does the bolt freely move without issue?Bolt is smoother than my other AR's Does the bolt seem to positively lock when you manually cycle the weapon, by pulling the charging handle to the rear and quickly releasing it, and not riding the bolt forward? Now if you ride the bolt forward until it stops on the chamber without locking does it easily lock when you push on the forward assist? Sometimes I have to use the forward assist just a little bit and it does easily lock.

                      Now you also need to consider the upper itself. It may be slightly bleeding gas somewhere which may cause improper cycling of some rounds. In other words the Guatemalan rounds may be under powered but shoot OK in another weapon. However if your upper has a slight loss in gas somewhere it may cause intermittant cycling issues in your weapon where other rounds may not have that problem.

                      Remove the bolt carrier group. Inspect the gas key. Does it look good? Any signs of bleeding gas? No signs of leakage Now with the weapon open when you replace the charging handle and the bolt carrier, with the muzzle pointing down, ease the carrier into the upper receiver and ride the carrier until it stops on the lugs without positvely locking. Now slightly tap down on the end of the carrier until it clicks into place. Does it feel like it hangs up at all? Light tap won't do it. Pretty good thumb jabbing does. Feels like a tight fit. Does not feel like an obstruction from misalignment This is hard to describe for the feel and generally comes with a lot of experience of feeling how a misaligned tube feels when replacing a carrier. No signs of misalignment inside of tube recepticle on carrier If it feels like it does not easily mate it can be the locking lugs or a mis-aligned gas tube which is not mating up properly, slightly off center of the gas key. Does the gas tube look like it passes through the barrel nut perfectly centered without touching? Gas tube looks about as perfectly centered as possible Misalignment of the tube will more usually touch the barrel nut. This can cause a slight gas issue, which can mimick the failure that you are talking about. It may not always cause a problem but some under powered rounds may have intermittant issues.

                      Other issues may be with the gas hole in the barrel out of spec or front sight mating problem to the gas system. All in all the type of failure you describe does sound like a gas issue. Wether a problem with the rounds themselves, or an issue somewhere in the weapons gas system. It is hard to diagnose without having the weapon in hand. Even then it may still not be easy to diagnose.I'll take the quad rails off later and inspect for gas leakage at the front sight

                      Keep us updated as to how its shooting when you go out again.
                      I went back to CMMG yesterday and I checked some of the other new uppers. They all seemed to be about as tight as mine. So I asked the rep and he said keep it oiled and it'll break in after a 100 or so rds. Does this sound right? Also it seemed to be a bit freer after running the chamber brush in an out a few time then cycling it.

                      If my wife wouldn't get PO'd I tape a 2 liter bottle to the barrel and run a few mags through it tonight.
                      sigpic

                      "Po Po coming through!" all rights reserved DJS



                      'Do we really need 'smart bombs' to drop on these dumb bastards?'

                      http://www.snipercompany.com/

                      M16/AR15/M4 Armorer

                      Comment


                      • I won't go so far as to say that it will solve the problem but after you fire a couple hundred rounds through the gun all edges on moving parts tend to be smoother, things slide more freely, and jams are less frequent. So the guy's advice seems to jive, but might not necessarily be your specific issue.

                        PS - I'm pretty sure the soda bottle silencers are only good for 1 shot each, and the ATF will have a bigger problem with it than your wife

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by whosjonny View Post
                          Hi jwise
                          First I want to thank you for taking up an unpaid part-time job on behalf of all of us future AR-15 owners.
                          Now that you mention it, what the heck am I doing this for? Oh yeah, to encourage others in the way of the Black Rifle...

                          M16 BCG w/ EGRESS Bolt Upgrade and CH "or"
                          BCM BCG MPI Auto M16 (about the same cost, which is better?)
                          I'd say its a toss-up. I think the EGRESS bolt may come with one or two features the standard BCM bolt does not. I'd probably go with the CMMG BCG w/ EGRESS.

                          Besides asking which BCG option is better, I am still trying to find out with CMMG if I can get a 14.7" w/ permanent A2 in a middy (I know you like 16" but I want the absolute shortest barrel). If not I'll probably just get the 16" w/ threaded A2. Also, I still don't understand why the M16 BCG is preferred over the M4 version?
                          Since you stated you want the absolute shortest overall length you can get, I'll leave your barrel choice alone. ESPECIALLY since you're getting the railed handguard factory installed.

                          When manufacturers say it comes with an "M16" bolt carrier, that means it's an "auto" carrier, which is the same one that comes in the M4. I don't know why they call it the M16 carrier, as opposed to the Full-Auto (FA) carrier (which is what I typically refer to it as.)

                          That sounds like one HELL of a bang-stick! When you get that puppy all put together, you will NEED to post photos...
                          J. Wise

                          AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

                          "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

                          Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by zeplin View Post
                            I went back to CMMG yesterday and I checked some of the other new uppers. They all seemed to be about as tight as mine. So I asked the rep and he said keep it oiled and it'll break in after a 100 or so rds. Does this sound right? Also it seemed to be a bit freer after running the chamber brush in an out a few time then cycling it.
                            That sounds right. I had to break in an AK once. It took about 90 rounds (3 mags.) After that, she hummed like a sewing machine.

                            Just goes to show all weapons are machines, and all machines can benefit from a little "break-in" period.
                            J. Wise

                            AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

                            "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

                            Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • Like Paul Howe says, "a wet rifle is a happy rifle," so keep that sucker wet with oil and shoot a few hundred rounds out of it. From what you stated in red in response to Surf, it DOES sound like a break-in issue.
                              J. Wise

                              AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

                              "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

                              Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

                              sigpic

                              Comment


                              • Like many custom firearms, tighter tolerances can require a break-in and settling period. As an example my new Nighthawk 1911 requires 300-500 rounds for a break in period. It may very well be the case of a break-in, however if it is a case of a break in period, and it only show failure in those particular rounds, I would say that they are underpowered compared to the other rounds, as the rifles action is taking more power to cycle it during this break in period.

                                Best way, is to see and find out. Don't trust your life on the gun in the mean-time.
                                The comments made herein are those solely of author and in no way reflect the opinions of any other person, agency or other entity.

                                Surfs Up on youtube!

                                Specialized Services Group on Facebook!

                                Comment

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