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  • Originally posted by Reedo View Post
    This is true if you care about warranty, but as far as I'm concerned, the only part that I need to last is the lower receiver. Everything else is subject to replacement. I realize that many people are not going to change stuff out all the time on their rifles, but eventually people will likely have to change out their barrels, pins, gas tubes, springs, hammers, and any other item that will eventually wear down. This is all stuff that is typically not covered by warranty (unless your company has a lifetime warranty on their rifles).
    And companies like DD have military contracts. BIG military contracts. They'll be around a long time.
    Yeah I forgot that DD just got completely gigantic, haha. They just got that new facility last year with like 20 CNC machines, intense. I know none of us care about warranties, but I'm talking about the regular consumer. Warranties and names sell guns. I can't tell you how many times I've had a customer look at an S&W M&P-15 and a DD M4 and pick the S&W because of their lifetime warranty and the fact that they've been around for over 150 years. I'll explain that it's a lesser quality rifle, but of course they don't care because they want the name. For every awesome DD, LWRC and Spike's gun that I sell, I sell eight or ten S&Ws, Bushmaster or DPMS. Doesn't bother me too much though, cause while I wait to sell them, I get to play with them, haha.
    Eat Meat, Build Mass!

    www.centralfloridaammo.com

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    • Colt 6920
      Aimpoint Comp ML3 2MOA
      Troy MRF-C7
      Troy BUIS
      Tango Down QD VFG
      Magpul CTR
      Last edited by Arewethereyet; 03-14-2011, 12:46 PM.

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      • Hey all,

        JWise, Surf and everyone else who has contributed to this thread, THANK YOU! It has been an awesome source of information and some very delightful photos if I do say so. I am building my first AR-15 slowly, but maybe not as slowly as I anticipated. I recently got my lower in the other day from my FFL dealer. It's a 5.56 Rock River Arms complete lower w/ the 6 stage stock and winter guard - no H buffer. We've (my dad and I) have known our FFL forever and he has a RRA himself and loves the brand, so we decided to trust him. With all the advice going around and on the first post by JWise, it seems like RRA is a decent brand and we made a good (not great) decision.

        Now i'm trying to build (in my head) my complete upper. I'm thinking of going with the RRA Stock A4 Upper 16" without the "tactical" handle or mount, which bases at $475. Then I'm going with the upgrades of what you reccomend: the Chromed Bolt Carrier Group free upgrade, Free Float guards and the Wylde 1/8 twist Stainless barrel (16") as a $65 upgrade. It will also come with the A2 flash hider, Flip Front Gas Block Sight for $80, RRA Quad Free Float Rails Mid-Length for $155 and the A2 Rear Sight for $65. The total will be $840 with this set up. The only other things I will need then is a case, sling and VFG for about $120 all together, and eventually a flashlight and scope or dot.

        So in essence:
        - 16" Stainless steel 1/8 twist barrel
        - Chromed and fully shrouded BCG
        - Wylde chamber for 5.56 and .223
        - No feed ramps
        - Midlength
        - A4 upper
        - BUIS - Flip front sight and rear sight
        - Free float rails

        I am also interested in the Entry Tactical w/ no mounts or handle. It is Carbine length A4 with 1/9 twist chrome-lined R-4 barrel, free float quad rails, flip front sight, chromed fully shrouded BCG - This would be cheaper at $790 and only would need a cheap $30 rear flip-sight to complete my BUIS system. I can also get the same thing w/o the "R-4" barrel, for $745. Also a different brand option i've heard so much about, Bravo Company. I can get the BCM 16" M4 (or Middy) upper for $400, BCM BCG for $140, and a set of $100 rails and $30 for the Charging Handle, totaling $660 for a complete upper. This is almost $100 cheaper and these guys sound like they have some awesome quality. Assuming I can snag everything when it gets in stock.

        Are there any obvious screw-ups or bad decisions with the set up I have selected? Also please reccomend products that can be substituted that you think are better quality for the money. I am questioning the Front Flip Gas Block sight and the Rear A2 sight also, just because the price vs. not knowing anything about them. I know the price may not be the cheapest, but it's pretty much everything I need and from a solid company with good words from a man who's been shooting rifles for 50 years.

        I'm a bit confused on if Chrome Lined barrels can be with stainless or not, i'm thinking no - apologies for being a complete newbie. Also, what is the difference between the R-4 and the standard barrel? I couldn't find R-4 in the BARREL section, but what i've got from google is that it's just cosmetic.

        I should also note that this gun will be for self-defense and shooting bottles, computers, and other random junk. I'm not a LEO and won't be using it daily and taking it on patrols, but I do plan to shoot it a lot.

        Last edited by jjbledsoe; 03-23-2011, 06:07 PM.
        Pursuing the dream.


        Awaiting the start of Academy... April 28th.

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        • While they serve a function I would not go with a mid length, kind of a red headed step child, not as common so not as easy to upgrade with junk. Definatly should get the RRA 2 stage match trigger, I would forget the A2 sights and go with a fixed fold down backup and fold down front, How much time are you going to spend at 800 meters with this right that you need an elevation adj rear sight, and who wants fixed front sights in the view of the optics all the time. The fixed sight is battle sight from muzzle to 300yds anyway and how much shooting are you doing beyond 300yds, and then as a back up sight only when the optic fails.

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          • Could you explain why mid-length is harder to add things to? Isn't it just a couple more inches of barrel/handguard? Other than the gas-system and stuff, but you don't add things to that. It sounds like the mid-length is the way to go because it isn't too long, too short, and judging by JWise's post it takes it easier on the gas system than the carbine. I'm open to anything you have to say though, just looking for some explanations.

            I'm getting the Flip Gas Block Front Sight, which is $80. Seen here., which folds down. Do you mean something like this for a folding rear sight? Agreed, I didn't know the sight I listed was designed for 800+ yards. The farthest I will be shooting it is probably 200 yards at most. Thanks for the insight.
            Last edited by jjbledsoe; 03-23-2011, 01:18 AM.
            Pursuing the dream.


            Awaiting the start of Academy... April 28th.

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            • The mid-length gives you more real estate to hold on to. You can get quad rails for them and mount the same amount of junk on it and still have a place to put your hand.

              David, if you have a 4x or higher power scope and a fixed front sight, you are not going to see the front sight using your scope.
              sigpic

              "Po Po coming through!" all rights reserved DJS



              'Do we really need 'smart bombs' to drop on these dumb bastards?'

              http://www.snipercompany.com/

              M16/AR15/M4 Armorer

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              • Cool - Yeah I see RRA has middy rails and BCM also has middy rails available on their site. I prefer a bit longer rifle, more to hang on to, and a little more room to see down the sights for greater accuracy. Do you think the BCM or RRA is a better deal, and what's your opinion on their quality?
                Pursuing the dream.


                Awaiting the start of Academy... April 28th.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by jjbledsoe View Post
                  Cool - Yeah I see RRA has middy rails and BCM also has middy rails available on their site. I prefer a bit longer rifle, more to hang on to, and a little more room to see down the sights for greater accuracy. Do you think the BCM or RRA is a better deal, and what's your opinion on their quality?
                  16" BCM 1/7 Twist

                  RRA is good, but I think BCM is better for a few dollars more.
                  Last edited by zeplin; 03-23-2011, 09:02 PM.
                  sigpic

                  "Po Po coming through!" all rights reserved DJS



                  'Do we really need 'smart bombs' to drop on these dumb bastards?'

                  http://www.snipercompany.com/

                  M16/AR15/M4 Armorer

                  Comment


                  • Thanks for your input zep. It actually seems that BCM will come out a few dollars cheaper, the way I did my math at least...

                    - RRA would be $750 with A4 Upper w/ Middy 16" 1:8 Stainless Barrel, A2 FSB and cage, Chromed BCG, Quad Rails, and a cheap $50 rear sight.
                    - BCM is looking like a $400 A4 Upper w/ Middy 16" 1:7 Chrome-Lined barrel and A2 FSB and cage, $100 for rails, $140 for chromed BCG, and $75 for Rear sight and Charging Handle - making it $715.
                    Pursuing the dream.


                    Awaiting the start of Academy... April 28th.

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                    • Originally posted by Hitthegym View Post
                      Oh I absolutely agree, I just really dislike how BCM has their product pages laid out. Someone that isn't paying attention could easily see an upper on there for $399 or whatever they are and go, "OH SNAP THAT ROOLZ" and then boom add to cart and then it shows up sans BCG and charging handle.
                      LOL! That actually happened to me! I was in a hurry and didn't read the fine print. I knew there were no handguards because of the picture but I didn't think about the BCG and charging handle. I thought that was a surprisingly low price but I shrugged and went "whatever." It doesn't matter because I have AR15 parts out the wazoo, but it was a surprise.
                      "Son, you are a walkin' violation of the laws of nature...But we don't enforce them laws."

                      I am just a country boy tryin' to make some sense
                      But I'd like to ask the Congress, I'd like to ask the President
                      "Can ya tell me where all the money went?"
                      We might not be broke but we're badly bent!


                      The Tractors -- "Badly Bent" from the album Owner's Manual

                      "Common sense. So rare, it should be a super power." Exodus 259

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                      • BCM is far superior to RRA. They have better quality control and overall parts in general.
                        "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
                        -John Adams


                        Disclaimer: My statements are personal opinions, and in no way reflect those of my agency.

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                        • Thanks for the input Reedo! Leaning more towards BCM now... BCM Mid-Length Upper Receivers in stock for God knows how long. Wish I could just order now but gotta wait till I get enough money. Anyone who's been watching see how long it takes for BCM to restock? I'm guessing they get one supply in every month.
                          Pursuing the dream.


                          Awaiting the start of Academy... April 28th.

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                          • jj - I am finding myself to be very busy these days and don't get on here that often. Others have given some great advice. These are some points that I will echo...

                            1 - RRA lower is OK. A good quality lower will work well. Some will go as far as saying any lower within spec will work. While this may be true to a point, not all lowers are created equal, but the RRA lower is OK.

                            2 - I have run a couple of the RRA match triggers. I broke one in a heavy use rifle but the other is still running in a precision gas gun. They are not the most durable triggers in their class, but when they are working they do a great job in how they feel. I wouldn't put one on a duty weapon, but yours is not.

                            3 - I have zero issues with a midlength system. They have been out long enough where you can find anything you want from them. They hit a bit softer, have more length for hand and accessory placement, longer sight radius. Basically there is all upsides to them.

                            4 - Uppers - Out of your choices I would personally go with the BCM chrome lined. You can go with a standard and not a hammer forged to save a bit of money if you like. You will more than likely never see the benefit of a hammer forged barrel over your entire shooting career. However if the extra $90 or so dollars is no big deal go for the BFH BCM. I would also consider Daniel Defense as they are one of my absolute favorite barrels.

                            Also note that the RRA barrel you list above with the 1/8 Wylde chamber is a stainless barrel and cost more. Basically the difference in a stainless barrel is that the stainless will generally be a more accurate barrel but will need better maintenance and will not last as long as a chrome lined barrel. Also consider that it is possible for a high quality chrome lined barrel may be more accurate than a poor quality stainless barrel.

                            What would I suggest right now for a great budget build of all high quality parts that meet the .Gov's TDP (Mil-Spec)?

                            BCM blem lower w / M4 stock = $289
                            BCM 16" Standard upper / barrel = $399
                            BCM Bolt carrier group = $139
                            Standard charging handle = $22
                            Magpul MOE handguard = $28
                            Total rifle = $877 w/o rear sight

                            Now if you want upgrades figure from there. FWIW - I see absolutely no need for a chromed BCG, or fail zero stuff. Definite frills but if I were thinking of money this isn't where I would spend it. Also for the rails, I love alloy rails as opposed to say the MOE's I suggest above. However the MOE's do allow for an economical mounting solution until one decides what their actual rail or accessory needs are. Plus if / when you want to upgrade rails, the MOE stuff is pretty easy to sell in good condition.

                            Just some thoughts.
                            The comments made herein are those solely of author and in no way reflect the opinions of any other person, agency or other entity.

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                            • I pretty much agree with Surf. That's no surprise for those who are paying attention.

                              I can't remember exactly, but I'm pretty sure I stated that if you had extra money to spend, getting a chrome BCG wouldn't be the worst way to spend it. However, none of my ARs have chrome BCGs.

                              Midlength gas systems are fantastic, and there is PLENTY of industry support for the length. The only pieces that are affected are the gas tube and handguards. Gas tubes aren't a big deal and just about everybody makes their handguards in midlength. If for no other reason, midlength is better for the longer sight radius. This doesn't matter for those who run optics 100%, but for your first AR-15 you should plan to shoot iron sights for a while, and learn the platform and the mechanics of shooting with a peep sight.

                              The rear sight can be a folding model if you want, but I would stick with a fixed front sight base. I'm just old school like that. I had flip sights on one of my first ARs, and I later switched them out to go back to the A2 FSB. The fixed front sight does not interfere with shooting optics, at least not in a meaningful way. However, my department mandated us to keep our sights "immediately accessible", which meant UP. Folding sights did me no good. YMMV. (I'm pretty sure Surf has rifles set up with folding front sights). You don't need the full A2 rear sight with drum adjustment to 800m. A backup model from Daniel Defense or LaRue will work fine.

                              The stainless barrel from RRA is HEAVY. It is medium contour, and will weigh you down. It is not needed. I have one because I have several ARs and wanted something different. Think light and handy, and go with a lighter contour barrel. Stay away from RRA barrels in general, as they do not turn down the barrel under the handguards. This may not be the case in all circumstances, but it is fair warning for you to check and make sure! There is no need for chrome lining a stainless barrel.

                              The lower is fine. Lowers matter very little in the grand scheme of things as long as they have their holes drilled in the right places. (more or less)

                              Get the BCM.
                              J. Wise

                              AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

                              "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

                              Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

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                              • Thank you for the great words and advice gentlemen! I was waiting to hear from some more experts - thanks to all who have contributed to my decision. After taking in everyones posts i've come up with this build:

                                BCM Standard 16" Mid-length Upper $400 - This has the chrome lined barrel, right? "Chromed bore and chamber". I know what the chamber is, but not so much the bore. Does that mean the inside of the barrel? I'm thinking yes if I recall but am not sure.
                                BCM Bolt Carrier Group $140
                                BCM Charging Handle $23
                                YHM Quad Rails Mid-length $110 - I've decided I want quad rails for sure, and YHM was on JW's reccomended list and also hear great value for the price.
                                Magpul Rear Flip BUIS $55 - Again, great reviews in value for the price.
                                Total - $704, about $717 shipped.

                                What do you men think? I agree with keeping on the fixed FSB as I like the look and see no necessity in replacing it yet. I also will definitely be learning from scratch and shooting with iron's for a while until I can invest in a decent optic. Do you know if BCM's birdcage is permafixed on their 16" barrels? I don't see why it would be, but just out of curiosity for when it comes to installing the rails. Unless of course it means 16" with the birdcage installed. And also are you aware if I can ask them to keep the FSB dismounted so it's easier to install the rails, and then put on the FSB later? From what i've read the FSB is a beeotch to get off when the A2 cage is permafixed. Correct me if I am wrong.
                                Pursuing the dream.


                                Awaiting the start of Academy... April 28th.

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