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  • Originally posted by zeplin View Post
    Looks nice Zoom! I'm with ya on the mid-length. I like the extra real estate...plus the longer sight radius it gives you. The stock I'm taking a liking to as well. Used think they were butt ugly... well... I still do, but they look like they might be more comfortable than most.

    look forward to a range report.
    Im not a big gun guy but researching magpul I really like their whole concept of all their products. I like the friction lock on the stock, keeps it nice and tight. Yes I drank the magpul cool-aid.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Harvdog View Post
      So what others are you recommending?

      Maybe a Bushmaster A3M4 or S&W MP15 from my local Gander Mountain?
      Dangit! I had it all typed up, went to check on another an lost it all.

      My personal pick at this time would be Bravo or J&T. Bush, S&W & CMMG are still good. I think you'd get the most bang for your buck by going with J&T, but resale wouldn't be there for lack of name recognition.

      You might want to check out the SLR15 @ http://www.slr15rifles.com/Default.asp
      sigpic

      "Po Po coming through!" all rights reserved DJS



      'Do we really need 'smart bombs' to drop on these dumb bastards?'

      http://www.snipercompany.com/

      M16/AR15/M4 Armorer

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ZoomByU View Post
        Thanks for all of the great advice. Just got the lower in today. Only thing left to add is an aimpoint, either T1 or PRO.

        BCM Mid-16
        Magpul MOE handguards
        Magpul CTR
        Magpul ASAP
        Magpul MIAD grip (not installed yet)
        Magpul MBUS
        BCM gunfighter charging handle mod4 (medium)





        That's a nice very nice weapon system your running there. I had a Tactical Handgun Class and afterwards I left with a Sergeant to his gun shop to look at my AR15 that's on the works. It is almost done, just waiting on a Yankee Machine muzzle break. I always thought that my weapon was going to be great, but the sergeant told me a lot of people are liking it and wanting for him to make a similar built for theirs. Ill post up pics really soon. I cant wait.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by jwise View Post
          This is my stab at a complete AR-15 buyer's guide for the "non-gunny" officer, looking to buy a patrol rifle. If that's not you, this may not be very applicable, but I hope you can get something out of it. This thread has taken on a life of its own, and has reached enormous circulation around the internet, making it full-circle back to me in a forward! I am humbled by this. More knowledgable people than I have both contributed to this, and have given me feedback to make it better. If there is still something written here that is either incorrect, or is still unclear, PLEASE contact me so I can fix it!

          Thanks for reading!


          So you want to buy an AR-15, huh? Well, you came to the right place.

          INTRO

          Let me guess, you have seen a few models in your local store, you have seen some ads in the gun rags, and a "guy" you know thinks his rifle is "the best." And now you need some help separating the wheat from the chaff, and have come here to find out what is best for you. Am I close?

          I am going to assume you plan to take this into harm's way, or at least want a rifle CAPABLE of being taken onto a "two-way" range. If you just want a recreational shooter, just pick up whatever fits your budget at your local gunshop. If it doesn't work as advertised, no one gets hurt. But for those whose lives depend on meeting evil in this present age with force, and lots of it, keep reading...

          The first question you SHOULD ask yourself, is "what's allowed?" For sworn Law Enforcement Officers employed by a department/agency, this could be as simple as "quality rifle approved by the Range Master." Or, it could be as picky as "Colt or Rock River Arms" (Dallas PD.) So BE SURE you get something that FITS YOUR POLICY, as well as fits your needs. Let's keep going...

          Secondly, you should assess your tactical parameters. Are you a lone deputy out in the sticks? Are you a member of a dedicated SWAT team in an urban setting? This will all play into what you should look into. We'll talk about that later, so let's move along for now...

          In addition, we need to consider what options you will be needing, and what accessories you will be running. These can range from slings, to sights, to lights, etc...

          Regardless, you will need a rifle that is DEAD NUTS RELIABLE, and made to a degree of quality assurance that you can TRUST it with your life, and the lives of your fellow officers, not to mention the sheep...err, I mean people, under your watch.

          Let's focus (for now) on this last point, and discuss what is needed in a fighting rifle.

          THE BARREL

          The heart of the rifle is the barrel. The barrel is the part of the rifle that directly touches the bullet in its path towards the target, and will be the single most expensive part in your rifle. It is also the one part of an AR-15 rifle that is prone to deteriorating (due to rust, erosion, or being shot-out.) The barrel is what determines the service-life of the rifle, so it should not be the part we scrimp on in order to save a few clams.

          So, what kind of barrel SHOULD a fighting rifle have? We have two choices: Stainless Steel (expensive), and Chrome-Lined 4150 steel. 4140 is what most commercial barrels are made of, and is not altogether a horrible choice (as long as it is chrome-lined), but 4150 is still preferable.

          H&K, Noveske, and now LWRC are offering Cold Hammer Forged barrels, which are MUCH more durable than standard barrels. These have a service life far surpassing what is currently available, but still need to be chrome-lined. CHF barrels are more expensive and should be regarded as highly desirable.

          While SS barrels are VERY accurate, are VERY durable, and are definitely 'en vogue', they are also usually heavier, as they are most commonly made for "match" rifles. In addition to weighing more, they are also more expensive. This can range from moderately more expensive, to outlandishly more expensive! You will also have to be sure the chamber is meant for a fighting rifle, and not a match rifle. We'll talk about that in a minute...

          So now that we know what material it should be made of, what about the other aspects? Here is the list of characteristics you should look for:
          1- Gov't profile
          2- Chrome lined chamber and bore
          3- 5.56 NATO chamber
          4- 1/7 twist
          5- Parkerizing under front sight base
          6- M4 feed ramps
          7- Magnetic particle tested

          If this is what we SHOULD look for, what else could we see? We'll take it spec by spec...

          1- Gov't profile

          As far as barrel profile goes, other specs would include, "HBAR" (heavy barrel), "Heavy", "MedCon" (medium contour), "SOCOM", or "Bull." While medium contour and Socom mean the same (slightly heavier than Gov't profile, not as heavy as HBAR), they are meant for those who fire their bang-sticks switched to "group therapy", not for semi-auto like most of us will use. All the above nomenclature means the barrel will weigh more than it should, and most likely made the barrel cost less to produce. Other specs would include "A1", "Superlight" or "pencil." These are the smallest barrels, and have a tendency to lose accuracy once they heat up. They still keep to the M4 standards of accuracy, so its not critical. They aren't necessarily bad options, but they do limit your ability to modify your rifle with aftermarket front sight bases later on (barrel profile under the FSB is too skinny for standard aftermarket products.)

          In summary: Gov't Profile, SOCOM/MedCon, or Lightweight are all fine options.


          2- Chrome lined chamber and bore

          Now that we have looked at which profiles we can choose from, let's look at the second spec. Several manufacturers make "Chrome Moly" barrels standard, and offer chrome lining as either an upgrade or they just don't offer it at all. This is unsat. Chrome lining is more than voodoo, it helps in many aspects of your rifle. It allows you to clean your rifle when you can, and doesn't necessitate you clean it NOW. It won't rust, or pit, or for that matter get dinged by a cleaning rod as easily. It has natural lubricity that allows for easier extraction when conditions aren't optimal (dirty chamber, hot round that would otherwise stick, etc...) Chrome also requires no break-in, and it wears at such a slow rate that service life is extended far beyond a standard chrome moly barrel. For the little bit extra it costs up front, it pays off in the end in spades for a fighting rifle. The one downside is a slight loss in accuracy, which will not be noticeable unless you scope it and shoot it over sandbags.

          3- 5.56 NATO chamber

          The proper chambering for a fighting rifle is 5.56 NATO, not .223 REM. While the cartridges are identical to the naked eye, they ARE nonetheless different. Most importantly, the 5.56 round will not feed reliably in the tighter .223 REM chamber. If you are looking to buy a match rifle, look for .223 REM and buy/load for it specifically. If you want a fighting rifle, you want the looser 5.56 NATO chamber.

          Other offerings (usually in stainless steel barrels) can be "Wylde", or "Dutch." They have the characteristics of both chambers, with no drawbacks that I have ever come across. Noveske calls his something else, but it's the same concept as the Wylde. (Wylde/Noveske chambers are designed to enhance accuracy, while Dutch chambers are designed to enhance reliability.)

          4- 1/7 twist

          The rate of twist for any given barrel is specific to the projectile diameter, length and velocity. For a 55gr 5.56 NATO round (M193), the proper twist is somewhere around 1/10 to 1/12. The original M16A1 came in a 1/12 twist. However, for the heavier 62gr M855 round, 1/12 does not work. The M16A2 went from 1/12 to 1/7 twist, allowing for this round. Truth be told, the 62gr penetrator (SS109) is actually the length of a 69gr bullet, but weighs less because it has a steel core instead of a lead core. This round will tumble wildly in a 1/12 twist barrel. Testing showed this fast twist rate will show premature throat erosion, so commercial barrel makers decided to make their barrels 1/9 twist since they did not need to adhere to the strict military requirement of 1/7. This worked, and the throat erosion seemed to be mitigated. However, with the newest advances in bullet design pushing the envelope to 75gr and 77gr projectiles, 1/9 is not quite getting the job done reliably. Due to tolerances for rifling a barrel, some barrels marked 1/9 can shoot the heavies with no ill effects, but others marked 1/9 throw them down range tumbling wildly. This is not good. A tumbling bullet is not a consistent bullet, and consistency is what produces both accuracy and controlled expansion. So if you want to load your rifle with the most advanced anti-personnel loadings you can, you will want a 1/7 marked barrel. If your duty load is only 55gr or 62gr at most, then 1/9 is probably alright. 1/12 is unsat. You will be stuck with 52-55gr.

          While this is not an ammo post, but a rifle post, I will keep it short. A good rule of thumb for the AR-15 is to get the heaviest bullet it will reliably stabilize, as it will penetrate deep enough to reliably hit vital organs, which is your actual target in a gunfight. Ballistic tips do NOT reliably penetrate deep enough to hit these targets when conditions are "imperfect." Stick with BTHP (OTM) ammo, and get the heavies. Our duty load is the Winchester Ranger 69gr BTHP (which works well in 1/9 twist barrels), but my personal choice is 75gr OTM (which I carry in my 1/7 twist LWRC and CMMG.)

          5- Parkerizing under front sight base

          This is one of those features that is an indicator of quality, moreso than it being an actual feature. However, when I switched out my standard FSB on my Bushmaster rifle to a railed gas block, it exposed some of the white metal that was not parkerized. While it did not rust on me, it was annoying. I later switched back to a standard FSB, but I still KNOW it's "naked" under there... Just to reiterate, this is not a critical issue.

          6- M4 feed ramps

          While there is some debate whether the feedramps DO anything, I am of the opinion if they will prevent one stoppage in 1k rounds, and cost ME nothing extra, I want them. HOWEVER, if you're going to have M4 ("extended") feedramps, they'd better be legit, and not just be dremeled in there. They should be anodized over, or polished, and better be lined up correctly (the feedramps are cut deeper into the barrel extension and line up with matching cuts in the upper receiver.) Otherwise they become a liability. So this check-mark is different from the rest. It's not just "check, it has 'em," but "check, it has 'em, and this manufacturer has a good reputation for properly doing them."

          In addition, a rifle could have a barrel extension with extended feedramps, but the upper receiver does not. This is ok. On the other hand, the receiver could be cut for extended feedramps and the barrel is not. This is NOT ok. (See below)



          PLENTY of carbines have functioned just fine without M4 feedramps, and you should not ditch your current rifle just because they aren't there. I carry a Bushmaster M4A3 Patrolman's Carbine without M4 feedramps on duty, so OBVIOUSLY I do not consider them a "must-have." But if I were buying a NEW rifle, I would look to get one WITH the M4 feedramps.

          7- Magnetic Particle Inspected (MPI)

          Magnetic Particle testing is a military designated test that is part of the TDP (Technical Data Package.) Colt has made such a ruckus about this procedure, that I hear more about MP tested barrels and bolts than any other argument for Colt. Well, others now offer this as well, and I have YET to EVER hear about a barrel or bolt that failed this test. Maybe it happens, but I've just never heard of it.

          From Sgt Geezer:

          Any magnetic metal object is placed between two jaws (aligned so that the grain of the steel is between) and electrically charged with pulses. Object has liquid solution containing particles that fluoresce under blacklight or magnetic dry powder is used.

          Any non metallic occlusion or "crack" will cause the collection of these particles at these indications. In new manufacture it assures the "steel" or melt is good without any contaminants.

          Shotpeening is...a process that uses lead....glass... or / usually steel shot through a "airgun" or blasting device that peens the surface metal over and creates hardness and crack resistance.


          I chalk these procceses up to "voodoo," but someone MIGHT correct me on this. (Thanks Sgt Geezer!)

          That finishes up the barrel portion, so now let's move on to the REST of the rifle!

          GAS SYSTEMS OF THE AR-15 FAMILY

          There are three types of gas systems for the AR-15 rifle: carbine, midlength and rifle. This is referencing the gas system, not the sight radius (distance of the front sight from the rear sight.) The gas system is composed of the gas port (located under the front sight base), which the gas block covers and redirects the gas back into the upper receiver through the gas tube. The handguards cover up this tube which is just made of thin aluminum. The M16 utilizes a rifle length gas system, and has 12" handguards. The midlength uses (you guessed it) a midlength gas system (9" handguards), and the carbine (M4, CAR-15) uses (that's right) the carbine length gas system (7" handuguards.)

          Carbine

          An intersting note in regards to gas systems, is that the carbine length system was designed to be used with 11.5" barrels (Colt Commando.) When the M4 stuck a 14.5" barrel on there (and commercial manufacturers used 16" barrels) it makes the short gas system extremely harsh on the carbine, leading to the symptom of "hard extraction." To overcome this, a bolt upgrade is needed. The bolt in a carbine should have a black insert under the extractor spring. This helps the symptom, but commercial manufacturers went further and fixed the PROBLEM, not just the symptom when they created the midlength.

          Midlength

          The "middy" is less harsh on the action, resulting in smoother extraction like its big brother, the rifle gas system. The middy naturally gives the shooter a longer sight radius than the carbine, but not as long as the rifle. It's an excellent compromise if you are going to run a 16" barrel, and it is even the correct dimensions (length from flash suppressor to FSB) for the USGI bayonet to fit!

          Rifle

          As mentioned, the rifle is the original gas system used in the M16, and is the best. However, it necessitates the use of an 18"+ barrel, and that is getting too long for most LE work. But if you're one of those rural deputies, and you have plenty of room in your squad/truck for one, go for it. The extra barrel length will increase the velocity of your bullet, and that's always a good thing. It would not fit well in my vertical rack, so I carry a 16".

          CMMG is now making a 16" using the rifle-length gas system, called the M10R. This is the first one I've ever seen. I just got off the phone with Jeff at CMMG, and it turns out he did not have to do anything different to get it to work. I don't have any firsthand experience with this rifle, and I've not even seen one, yet. Until I start hearing reports of users experiencing flawless function with this new rifle, I won't be spending my dollars on one. If it does turn out to work as well as Jeff says it does, then it definitely has an edge over the mids, enjoying a softer recoil impulse (less harsh on gas system/extractor) and longer sight radius, while still having just a 16" barrel.

          Dissipator

          This is a hybrid of sorts, and is known as the "Dissipator" according to Bushmaster (this is also the concept behind the SLR-15 as far as I know.) It uses the carbine length gas system via a low-profile gas block which is under the 12" handguards. A FSB is stuck on the end of the rifle for the 12" handguards to fit, but does not serve as the gas block, JUST the front sight. This gives the shooter a longer sight radius. The rifle does not actually use a rifle length gas system because its 16" barrel just barely pokes out past the FSB, which would not give the gases behind the bullet enough time to pressurize the gas system and reliably cycle the action.

          So this becomes another option, carbine, middy, rifle or Dissipator?

          F-MARKED FSB

          Since we're on the subject of where the FSB goes, let's dig in. F-marked front sight bases are what the top tier manufacturers use. The F-marked FSB is slightly taller than its commercial brethren, and is what nearly ALL rear sights are designed to work with. With a commercial FSB and an aftermarket rear sight, you will need to adjust the front sight all the way up. Either that, or you could also buy a taller front sight post. With the front sight pin adjusted for use with aftermarket rear sights, the front sight is the same height as the "wings" that were meant to protect it... [shrug]

          From Molon:
          Clarification: There is no difference in the over-all height of a standard front sight base and an "F" front sight base. The "shelf" containing the sight post is approximately 0.040" higher above the barrel on an "F" FSB than on a standard FSB.




          This results in the base of the front sight pin sticking out above the shelf when sighted in using aftermarket rear sights. This is a picture of my Bushmaster patrol rifle sighted in with a LaRue BUIS.



          This is a picture of an F-marked FSB also sighted in with a LaRue BUIS.



          There ARE Front Sight Bases out there that are not actually marked with an "F." LMT is the only manufacturer that I have heard about that uses these. Obviously it's not the "mark" that matters, but the proper height.
          Jwise, that was such an impressive write-up...... why don't you take it to a publisher and make some money from it? If you had a lot of help from other people, you could always make a huge contribution to some police fund, or to some kids' camp. I'm constantly amazed at the quality of information I can elicit from these police forums. Being the bourgeoisie capitalist pig that I am, I'd love to see you civil servants make some money for a change too. Btw, just yesterday as my chiroprator was twisting my neck into alignment, he mentioned he had just bought an AR-15. I think it's time to go try one at the range myself.

          Oh, awesome cigar wrappers too.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by EmmaPeel View Post

            Oh, awesome cigar wrappers too.
            Click on the cigar wrappers...
            J. Wise

            AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

            "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

            Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

            sigpic

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Harvdog View Post
              Awesome thread and great information JWise for a newbie to ARs. I haven't read the entire thread because...wow...that's alot. But I did read the beginning including the reviews, as well as, your pick.

              I am definitely looking at CMMG now. Probably going to go the money saving route as well by ordering the full upper then the full lower. Assuming this means I can just slap these together and knock in the take-down pins. Probably a silly question, huh?
              CMMG uppers are now selling for $575, and BCM uppers (sans handguards) are selling for $489. You can then attach standard handguards, Magpul MOE handguards, or a railed handguard of your choosing. Not to mention that the BCM has a hammer forged barrel. With BCM uppers selling for this low price, there is no reason to even be looking at a CMMG.

              A few questions for you regarding your preferences and on some things I am considering:

              I want to go with railed forearm but I didn't see your thoughts on the K9 rail offered. Decent or should I just stick with the standard handguards and add my rail preference after market?

              I don't have any thoughts on the K9 rail. My preferred rail is still the Troy MRF-C, or MRF-M for the midlength.

              I know you mentioned that you would not go with a 20". However, if you did, what specs/options would you select?

              I'm confused. I would want the same specs as an M4, just with a 20" barrel.

              I believe I saw somewhere in this thread that you had some RRA triggers and stock triggers as well. What do you recommend for the CMMG?

              I run RRA National Match two-stage triggers. They are non-adjustable, and very robust.

              Any thoughts on the Crimson Trace Laser/Light Combo Foregrip Sight?

              Never played with one of those.

              I think that's enough for now. Thanks in advance.
              J. Wise

              AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

              "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

              Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

              sigpic

              Comment


              • Originally posted by jwise View Post
                CMMG uppers are now selling for $575, and BCM uppers (sans handguards) are selling for $489. You can then attach standard handguards, Magpul MOE handguards, or a railed handguard of your choosing. Not to mention that the BCM has a hammer forged barrel. With BCM uppers selling for this low price, there is no reason to even be looking at a CMMG.
                Gotta remember, the BCM uppers don't come with a BCG or charging handle.

                http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Produ...URG-MID-16+BFH

                Made by Bravo Company MFG, Inc. (BCMâ„¢) These Barreled Upper Receiver Groups are designed for shooting professionals with the Mil-Spec features for the demands of their duty. They are fully assembled, headspaced, and test fired. These do not include bolt carrier groups, charging handles or handguards.
                Regardless of that, CMMG comes nowhere near the value of Bravo Company and the quality of the BCM guns is impeccable.
                Last edited by Hitthegym; 02-27-2011, 07:47 PM.
                Eat Meat, Build Mass!

                www.centralfloridaammo.com

                Comment


                • Originally posted by jwise View Post
                  Click on the cigar wrappers...
                  Geeeze, that Padilla is gorgeous. Just looking at it would make me want to take a puff. Got a question for ya, Sir. About how much would it cost to buy the Ar-15 as a civilian? I've been thinking about a shotgun for home protection, however......

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Hitthegym View Post
                    Gotta remember, the BCM uppers don't come with a BCG or charging handle.

                    http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Produ...URG-MID-16+BFH



                    Regardless of that, CMMG comes nowhere near the value of Bravo Company and the quality of the BCM guns is impeccable.
                    You're only looking at about $20 more for a complete upper from BCM. I'd go with BCM even if it was $100. CMMG scarificed too much during the rush for me to recommend them for a while until I can say with little or no doubt that their quality is up to snuff again. Plus like you said HTG. Bravo will hold their value.
                    sigpic

                    "Po Po coming through!" all rights reserved DJS



                    'Do we really need 'smart bombs' to drop on these dumb bastards?'

                    http://www.snipercompany.com/

                    M16/AR15/M4 Armorer

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by zeplin View Post
                      You're only looking at about $20 more for a complete upper from BCM. I'd go with BCM even if it was $100. CMMG scarificed too much during the rush for me to recommend them for a while until I can say with little or no doubt that their quality is up to snuff again. Plus like you said HTG. Bravo will hold their value.
                      Oh I absolutely agree, I just really dislike how BCM has their product pages laid out. Someone that isn't paying attention could easily see an upper on there for $399 or whatever they are and go, "OH SNAP THAT ROOLZ" and then boom add to cart and then it shows up sans BCG and charging handle.
                      Eat Meat, Build Mass!

                      www.centralfloridaammo.com

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Hitthegym View Post
                        Oh I absolutely agree, I just really dislike how BCM has their product pages laid out. Someone that isn't paying attention could easily see an upper on there for $399 or whatever they are and go, "OH SNAP THAT ROOLZ" and then boom add to cart and then it shows up sans BCG and charging handle.
                        I'm the same way. Almost everyone else sells complete uppers and offers upgrade options for each and every upper listed on the exact same page. It's like "We know our stuff is the best, but if we're more, then folks will buy the cheap crap, so let's take out the charging handle and the BCG, drop our price by this amount then the unwary will jump on us like chickens on a junebug thinking our deals are the absolute best." I'll buy from them only because I know the quality is there... but sheeeeesh Louise, I'm lazy and would appreciate one stop shopping instead of picking out my upper and then having to go to another section to get the rest of it.
                        sigpic

                        "Po Po coming through!" all rights reserved DJS



                        'Do we really need 'smart bombs' to drop on these dumb bastards?'

                        http://www.snipercompany.com/

                        M16/AR15/M4 Armorer

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Hitthegym View Post
                          Gotta remember, the BCM uppers don't come with a BCG or charging handle.
                          Hmmm... You're right. And this is why I hesitated for so long in recommending BCM and LMT. It isn't easy to buy them.
                          J. Wise

                          AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

                          "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

                          Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by jwise View Post
                            Hmmm... You're right. And this is why I hesitated for so long in recommending BCM and LMT. It isn't easy to buy them.
                            Not at all. The other nice thing about buying a Colt, Armalite, Bushmaster, etc is that you can know with pretty good certainty that those companies will stay in business for a good length of time to take advantage of warranties, customer support and resale value. If BCM or DD goes under in a few years, it sure will be hard to sell their stuff to someone who doesn't care about some small company that was cool five years ago, regardless of how quality their rifles are.

                            ETA: This isn't a bash on BCM, DD, or any other small(er) shop, just the way the industry works.
                            Last edited by Hitthegym; 03-01-2011, 09:05 PM.
                            Eat Meat, Build Mass!

                            www.centralfloridaammo.com

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Hitthegym View Post
                              Not at all. The other nice thing about buying a Colt, Armalite, Bushmaster, etc is that you can know with pretty good certainty that those companies will stay in business for a good length of time to take advantage of warranties, customer support and resale value. If BCM or DD goes under in a few years, it sure will be hard to sell their stuff to someone who doesn't care about some small company that was cool five years ago, regardless of how quality their rifles are.

                              ETA: This isn't a bash on BCM, DD, or any other small(er) shop, just the way the industry works.
                              I wouldn't worry about any AR builder going under whose parts are not proprietary to them only. It's the ones that make theirs just enough different so parts will not interchange that I would be concerned with whether they went belly up or not.
                              sigpic

                              "Po Po coming through!" all rights reserved DJS



                              'Do we really need 'smart bombs' to drop on these dumb bastards?'

                              http://www.snipercompany.com/

                              M16/AR15/M4 Armorer

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hitthegym View Post
                                Not at all. The other nice thing about buying a Colt, Armalite, Bushmaster, etc is that you can know with pretty good certainty that those companies will stay in business for a good length of time to take advantage of warranties, customer support and resale value. If BCM or DD goes under in a few years, it sure will be hard to sell their stuff to someone who doesn't care about some small company that was cool five years ago, regardless of how quality their rifles are.

                                ETA: This isn't a bash on BCM, DD, or any other small(er) shop, just the way the industry works.
                                This is true if you care about warranty, but as far as I'm concerned, the only part that I need to last is the lower receiver. Everything else is subject to replacement. I realize that many people are not going to change stuff out all the time on their rifles, but eventually people will likely have to change out their barrels, pins, gas tubes, springs, hammers, and any other item that will eventually wear down. This is all stuff that is typically not covered by warranty (unless your company has a lifetime warranty on their rifles).
                                And companies like DD have military contracts. BIG military contracts. They'll be around a long time.
                                "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
                                -John Adams


                                Disclaimer: My statements are personal opinions, and in no way reflect those of my agency.

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