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Is the 9mm not an effective caliber?

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  • Sleuth
    replied
    Yes, but the reload is slow if there are 2 or more of them.

    Leave a comment:


  • CCCSD
    replied
    .50 black powder mini ball... Works.

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  • Sleuth
    replied
    After the FBI Miami disaster in '86, they held a wound ballistics conference which resulted in the 'FBI Protocol' for testing ammo. Since all ammo of all calibers is tested the exact same way, and they all meet the same standard for expansion, depth of cavity, and volume of cavity, they all work about the same.
    But the guns are cheaper, the ammo is cheaper (when available), and with less recoil and blast, qualification scores are higher.

    In addition, the FBI failed a number of smaller statured trainees with 10 & 40 guns. Some of them hired an outside instructor, who let them shoot 9mm - they all qualified. They sued the FBI - and won. The Judge ruled that one size gun does NOT fit all.

    I have carried, in the course of my career, .38 SPL +P+, .357 Mag, .45 JHP, and 9mm JHP. These days I usually carry a custom made 9mm.
    With modern ammo, it's all good.

    Leave a comment:


  • tanksoldier
    replied
    For what it’s worth, I carry the old Federal 9BPLE +P+ round as my duty round.

    It was popular 30+ (?) years ago. It’s not the latest and greatest, but it is a solid performer with street history, and it’s cheap enough to shoot for practice.

    I’m not too worried.

    Leave a comment:


  • SHU
    commented on 's reply
    I'd rather get shot with a 9mm than have a .22 dart around in my body.

  • Rascon3Romeo
    replied
    I am a current FI. We use 9mm and had the opportunity to go-to a Glock event and compare 9mm to .40... Being almost even, with larger closer to entry cavitation on the 9mm. We did tests through heavy clothing as well as glass also. From the top it is about even, but from the sides 9mm gets the edge. There's a reason why most agencies are going to 9mm, as all mentioned above... But the round development within the past 20 years has made it comparable or better than most.

    Leave a comment:


  • KJB
    replied
    The way my firearms instructor explained it was during a firefight you're likely going to fire several rounds in rapid succession. The more rounds that hit the target the better chance of taking the threat out.

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  • angeredmgmt
    replied
    Basically, all handgun rounds, within reason, can and will kill someone. I'm not talking about rat shot and other ultra light offerings. If you watch Joe Kenda shoes, many of the murders occurred with the .380 caliber pistols. A .380 basically is a 9mm rounds missing some weight, and for that matter, a .357 Sig is basically a fast moving 9mm.

    As mentioned above, the 9mm got a bad reputation over the years compared to larger and more 'powerful' pistol cartridges. Over the years, bullet designers/manufacturers developed more effective rounds where doctors see similar amount of trauma as the historically more 'powerful' and larger calibers.

    The advantages of the 9mm over larger diameter cartridges is higher magazine capacity for the same size magazine, lighter recoil, greater firearm longevity, less cost and a wide range of loads just to name some off of the top of my bald head.

    I'm thinking about going into the reserves at my local sheriff's office, and depending on caliber of their handguns in policy, I most certainly would/will get a 9mm if allowed EVEN if larger calibers are allowed. I've several .40 calibers for almost my entire career, and I've always felt confident that it would take care of me. I feel the same way now with 9mm....IF I was allowed to carry known effective cartridges.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim1648
    replied
    Originally posted by Ratatatat View Post
    1995: 9mm is not effective. Here's your new .40S&W.

    2005: .40S&W has too many case failures. Here's your new .357 Sig.

    2020: .357 Sig ammo costs twice as much as 9mm. Here's your new 9mm.
    That sounds familiar.

    My first PD actually issued me a Smith & Wesson Model 10 in .38 Special. I bought my own Smith & Wesson Model 66 .357 Magnum for the PD I worked at for almost 11 years. At some point, they authorized semi-automatic pistols and I bought a Smith & Wesson 5906 in 9 mm.

    I went to a sheriff's office in 1993 and they were preparing to switch to county sidearms. I was issued a Glock Model 22 in .40 S&W.

    I retired and went to a quasi-federal agency as a retirement job. They issued me a Glock Model 21SF in .45ACP. Before I retired from there, we switched to 9mm!

    Leave a comment:


  • Bighead
    replied
    Here is a link to the FBI's justification for returning to 9mm in 2015.

    Basically, all handgun rounds suck. The extremely limited performance advantage you might get out of .40 or .45 isn't worth what you give up in magazine capacity, shootability, and ability to train more because of lower ammunition cost.

    http://looserounds.com/2014/09/21/fb...ning-division/

    Leave a comment:


  • Bighead
    commented on 's reply
    I think one problem is that video can cause issues with perception of distance. I would like to see the scene measurements, because I'm willing to bet the suspect was closer than he appears on video.

  • Aidokea
    commented on 's reply
    Dennis Tueller was the instructor for my Glock factory armorer class.

  • Levithane
    commented on 's reply
    Which is a sensible conclusion, based on that observation he was a threat. The non sensible conclusion is that he posed no threat despite still holding the knife after being told multiple times to drop it, and tried getting up after being shot. My confusion stems from the fact people are in the mindset that someone approaching with a knife isn't a threat in anyway (Ie the ones opposed to the action she took).

  • Aidokea
    commented on 's reply
    He was advancing on her with the knife in his hand, even after being shot twice...

  • Levithane
    commented on 's reply
    off topic, but Im confused as to why people cant come to a consensus regarding that shooting.

    -Guy has a knife, fails to responds to commands to drop said knife.
    -Argument being made he isn't threatening with a knife.
    -Tries to get back up with said knife after being shot.

    Theres a term floating around regarding when people can't come to sensible conclusions, but for the sake of not sounding like a conspiracy theorist ill refrain from touching on it.

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