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  • #46
    Originally posted by ICEMAN1977 View Post
    has anyone got to shoot a H&k 416 or a sig sauer 556 rifles yet...
    i am saving my money for a sig 556 rifle..
    We have a Sig 551...still waiting for a chance to qualify with it.
    summer - winter - work

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    • #47
      I have to agree about the AK. I have 2 of them myself and don't really consider them to be a terrorist gun. I can't say that I know of any local police that use them as patrol rifles, however I know of several that have one in their home for home defense.
      I can't believe I do this for free!

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by evans1010 View Post
        Just a question, a department I recently did a ride along with carried an MP5 between the seats and an HK G36 in the trunk. I hadn't seen any mention of the G36 and wondered if anyone had any experience with it?
        Nick
        I was once a HUGE H&K fan. I actually custom built a G36 replica from an SL8-1. I spent $2500 to get it as close to a G36 as possible, which required LE letterhead to get around the AWB and the "Sporting Use" section of the GCA. All that said, this is my current opinion...

        While the H&K MP5 is the standard by which all submachine guns are compared, I am forced to open my mind and ask "why a submachine gun at all?" In a package roughly the same size and weight, I can have a short barreled AR which is MUCH better at the task of stopping an assailant. So I no longer care much for MP5s, or any 9mm shoulder-fired weapon.

        The G36 was monumental when it came out. It was the first that I am well aware of to use an all-plastic upper and lower receivers (not carbon fiber like the Carbon 15s.) The problem showed up after prolonged use. It ends up it just doesn't have the durability of other weapon platforms. They suffered from cracked receivers and melted handguards as well as melting where the barrel mates with the receiver. Now, this is usually only after prolonged full-auto firing, so semi-auto variants were purportedly pretty good rifles.

        I really liked the shootability of my rifle, but the ergonomics stank. The stock just could NOT be made short enough to fit me well. The holes in the forearm for the pic rails were in the wrong places, and the proprietary dual optic was crap compared to the Eotech I run on my ARs. (I had a worse time of it because the SL8-1 receiver was not made to work with the dual optic.)

        If I could get a TRUE G36 in a semi-auto only configuration as an individually owned rifle, I would be interested, but the ergonomics of the AR are nearly impossible to beat. When I sold my SL8/G36 build, I began my quest for the perfect shoulder-fired weapon. I ended up with a LWRC short stroke piston AR with an 11.5" barrel, railed forearm, and AAC M4-2000 suppressor. It is topped with an Eotech and sports a Tango Down VFG and Night Ops 9V Falcata weapon light. I now have (arguably) the finest shoulder-fired weapon system in production. Or at least, would be if it were full-auto!!
        J. Wise

        AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

        "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

        Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

        sigpic

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Dieter122 View Post
          whyyyyyyyyyyyyy

          ammo is ultra expensive, and the whole system/ammo situation is pretty rediculous..not many P90 users out there really.

          stick with someone thats in wide circulation.

          there are much better options for you than the P90.
          Not to mention poor terminal ballisitics.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by jwise View Post
            Scopes don't belong on carry handles, period. If you're going to put an optic on an AR, it should be a flattop.



            Hmmm... It's a very minor issue, and probably has more to do with preference than an honest to goodness objective criticism. I definitely like the AR safety best.



            Oh REALLY? I'm qualified on my underfolder AK and plenty of officers around the country use some variant of an AK on patrol. Your "terrorist" comment was ubsurd. And finally, ANY 30 round mag makes prone shooting difficult. Good thing they make 20rd AK mags...
            I just can't see them as being suitable for LE use. May be a great "OH SH*T" gun, but for me, thats where it ends.

            Comment


            • #51
              I will stick with my AUG. Completly reliable, excellent ergonomics (for me), shorter than any AR with the same barrel legnth, easy to fire one handed - even in full auto. Heck, I have shot our qual course with the AUG held like a pistol!
              (Which says something about our qual course being too easy!)

              And, the AUG is coming back into production!!!!!
              "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
              John Stuart Mill

              Comment


              • #52
                I thought Steyr exited the U.S. market when they were barred from bidding on US gov't contracts. This was because they went ahead and sold a bunch of HS-50 50cal snipers to the Iranians. Who gave them to Hezbollah in Iraq. That right there is a good reason not to buy anything Steyr makes (altho their products are good).

                Comment


                • #53
                  Rabbi, that gets into the issue of end users. While I have not investigated this case, the buyer, in this case Iran, submits an "end user certificate" to the seller, stating that the items will only be used by 'X' in their country. If they lie, there is no way for the seller to know. Of course, there may have been some prior knowledge on the part of Steyr.
                  I'm sure that Iran has AR's made by Colt, Bushmaster, etc., and handguns from S&W, Colt, SA, etc. The issue is tracing if the seller knew, or should have known, where they would end up.
                  {I used to investigate cases on the International Traffic in Arms and Munitions of War - can't you tell?)
                  Since the planned AUG is (I hear) to be made in the US, we can have what I consider the best in 5.56 rifles. And with others using designs that were used to kill U.S. Troops (e.g. the AK-47), where do we draw the line?
                  "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
                  John Stuart Mill

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Well, I didnt want to complicate it, but...
                    In fact the U.S. and Britain protested to Austria prior to the sale and requested (forcefully I am sure) that they shouldnt sell the guns to Iran for all the reasons you know already.
                    Austria replied that Iran had provided end-user certificates and if you cant believe the Iranians, who can you believe.
                    That's when the U.S. cut off Steyr (I dont know what Britain did). The U.S. was right, of course. Not that the Euros will see it that way.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by 11b101abn View Post
                      I just can't see them as being suitable for LE use. May be a great "OH SH*T" gun, but for me, thats where it ends.
                      Just to clarify... What is it that makes it "unsuitable" for LE use?

                      - It's legendary reliability?
                      - It's functional accuracy?
                      - It's near bulletproof mags which are plentiful and cheap?
                      - It's easy to use, field strip and clean functionality?
                      - Or just its [scary] looks?

                      What about an Israeli Galil? It's just a modernized AK. What if the officer was required to change out the scary wood stocks for black plastic?

                      While I like my AR better, I find it ubsurd to "hate" on a weapon just because of its "looks." Kinda like those who think 1911s are "dangerous" because they are cocked and locked, but instead issue out Glocks to their troops without hesitation.

                      Never underestimate the power of ignorance.
                      J. Wise

                      AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

                      "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

                      Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Jwise, if we like it or not, we are in the public relations biz along with our police work. What is the most common emblem of a terrorist? One that is so common, at least 3 books in my library have it on the cover? A arm holding an AK47.
                        Perception can overcome reality. Yes, a Galil is an AK with different furniture. Heck, just change the buttstock to an M4 type, and it looks like a different gun. But a 'plain' AK is associated, in the mind of the general public, with terrorists. For all of it's virtues, it does drag this association along with it.
                        "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
                        John Stuart Mill

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Sleuth View Post
                          Jwise, if we like it or not, we are in the public relations biz along with our police work. What is the most common emblem of a terrorist? One that is so common, at least 3 books in my library have it on the cover? A arm holding an AK47.
                          So? Officers don't walk around on general patrol with a rifle, anyway. The public would be offended by that no matter what kind of rifle it is.

                          In any case where a rifle is needed, such as an active shooter, armed robbery, barricaded gunman, etc., I think the last thing going through the sheep's feeble little minds as they run terrified and traumatized from the carnage would be "gosh, that police officer's rifle looks scary!!"

                          I would feel fine on duty with any rifle as reliable and effective as the AK, regardless of how it looks.

                          However, I know that all we need to do to look like the heroic angels we are is use a "friendly"-looking AR-type rifle. This guy got the memo:


                          Looks like these guys didn't get the memo. Creepy!!! I bet they are shooting at a nursery:
                          Last edited by Sabre; 06-27-2007, 01:51 PM.

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                          • #58
                            Thanks for the cover, Sabre.
                            J. Wise

                            AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

                            "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

                            Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Please note, I never wrote that the AK was less effective or reliable than the AR series - it is more. Just that there is a perception, right or wrong, that it is (I hate this phrase) 'the weapon of choice' of terrorists.

                              BTW, in picture #2, those look like US troops getting to famfire 'the other guys' rifles. Nothing wrong with that.
                              "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
                              John Stuart Mill

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                I have to agree with SLEUTH, or City council can hardly stand to see us with good old American made M4's. They'd all have a stroke's it they saw one of us with an AK. It's more a question of public perception than of effectiveness.

                                Comment

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