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  • #16
    Originally posted by JaredO View Post
    If you all had the choice between FN and RRA, which would you go with?
    FN is vastly superior. They have all of the US military contracts for small arms now. FN is making some excellent rifles, and they will be announcing some new LE rifles in a couple weeks at SHOT show. They use the best quality components, and offer excellent LE pricing. I have been in talks with FN over the years to facilitate equipping two different agencies and one SWAT team, and they have been excellent to deal with and been willing to bend over backwards to get me whatever I wanted. FN has vastly better support for LE customers, including warranty repairs, armorer training, etc.

    Over the years I’ve seen Rock Rivers have various issues. They’re a mid-level company, but years back Pat Rogers noted that he saw a 5k round “hard stop” with RRAs where they would suddenly develop problems or completely crap out around 5k rounds. The most common issues were around the small parts. I called RRA a couple months ago regarding assisting an agency with rifle options and pricing. I tried to get specific technical information about component quality, including the specific grades of components, and the guy I talked to who was with their LE and product development just gave me the run-around. He had some good info, but he was dodgy about answer questions that I’ve had fully and openly answered by people like Paul Buffoni of BCM or a development manager from FN. I don’t like being given vague information by manufacturers when I’m asking specific questions, and it comes off as patronizing and deceptive.

    I recently looked at a RRA off the shelf, and it was nothing impressive. I would take a RRA any day over lower quality junk options like DPMS or Core15, but not over a top tier rifle like FN, BCM, DD or SOLGW.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
    -John Adams


    Disclaimer: My statements are personal opinions, and in no way reflect those of my agency.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Reedo View Post

      FN is vastly superior. They have all of the US military contracts for small arms now. FN is making some excellent rifles, and they will be announcing some new LE rifles in a couple weeks at SHOT show. They use the best quality components, and offer excellent LE pricing. I have been in talks with FN over the years to facilitate equipping two different agencies and one SWAT team, and they have been excellent to deal with and been willing to bend over backwards to get me whatever I wanted. FN has vastly better support for LE customers, including warranty repairs, armorer training, etc.

      Over the years I’ve seen Rock Rivers have various issues. They’re a mid-level company, but years back Pat Rogers noted that he saw a 5k round “hard stop” with RRAs where they would suddenly develop problems or completely crap out around 5k rounds. The most common issues were around the small parts. I called RRA a couple months ago regarding assisting an agency with rifle options and pricing. I tried to get specific technical information about component quality, including the specific grades of components, and the guy I talked to who was with their LE and product development just gave me the run-around. He had some good info, but he was dodgy about answer questions that I’ve had fully and openly answered by people like Paul Buffoni of BCM or a development manager from FN. I don’t like being given vague information by manufacturers when I’m asking specific questions, and it comes off as patronizing and deceptive.

      I recently looked at a RRA off the shelf, and it was nothing impressive. I would take a RRA any day over lower quality junk options like DPMS or Core15, but not over a top tier rifle like FN, BCM, DD or SOLGW.
      And I have a different perspective. In 2006 when I deployed to OIF, my unit had brand new .50 caliber heavy machine guns for our helicopter tail mounts (GAU-21/ M3M to be specific), which are made by FN. These things were sweet! In all of our pre-deployment training they were like rockstar guns. They easily gave us another 300 RPM fire.

      Once the op tempo picked up, and the deployment ground on, these things were constantly failing. Being a flyer and an ordnanceman, it was my job to keep these guns running smooth. We had no problem with our trusted XM-218’s, but our GAU-21 (made by FN I remind you) became 80 lbs. of dead weight. We had technical support from FN and they touted the amazing new technology, improved rate of fire and shear awesomeness of this machine gun. They tried blaming the ordnance guys and aircrew, for not lubing, over lubing, shooting too fast, too slow, etc.

      The gun was great in training, but once it got real they were unreliable. And that gets people killed. They tried a variety of fixed but none seemed to work and I remember a few times just leaving them in the armory. Now things have changed and I heard they worked the bugs out of that weapons system. Like I said FN is a great company and turns out a great product.

      I know that this was about patrol rifles, not machine guns and I know FN makes a quality product. I looked at buying an FNP 9 and I think it’s top notch. But every time I think about FN the first thing I think about is the pucker factor of having a heavy machine gun go down during combat operations.

      My .02
      I make my living on Irish welfare.

      Comment


      • scotty_appleton814
        scotty_appleton814 commented
        Editing a comment
        I bought a FNP 40 in like 2010. I've put a couple thousand rounds thru it and never had an issue. But that is much different circumstances than a deployed environment

      • reils49
        reils49 commented
        Editing a comment
        I like FN. I think they have a solid reputation. I would have no problems carrying any FN product on or off duty.

        My point was that FN or any other high speed name, can and do have problems just like any other weapon system. And mid priced ARs like RRA provide excellent service.

        I think sometimes people are so hung up on names that they think if you’re not carry a Daniel Defense AR and wearing Crye Precision clothes you’re not effective.

    • #18
      I think the biggest issue with the “whats better, A or B” type question is this: you must define your objectives, budget, philosophy of use before you can get a real answer. Unless you’re asking what’s a better gun, A. Lorcin or B. Raven Arms, then the answer is obvious C. They are both terrible.
      I make my living on Irish welfare.

      Comment


      • #19
        I'm in the same boat as the original poster. I understand "if you use it, it's gone". As long as the OIS is warranted, most agencies will issue you a replacement. At least mine will. I'm considering the FN scar 16s. They offer a good LE discount but it is still very expensive. Need it to withstand the brutal FL heat. I'd welcome any thoughts.

        Thanks

        Comment


        • #20
          Honestly, anything from a reputable manufacturer with a chrome-lined barrel will serve well. LE isn't a combat unit where the rifle will be out in the field for long periods potentially untended. I carried a S&W MP15A before my department started equipping patrol cars with AR's...they were much cheaper than something high end like a SCAR or a Sig, so getting damaged or taken during an OIS wasn't as big a concern, and they were still functional and reliable.
          "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
          -Friedrich Nietzsche

          Comment


          • #21
            I really appreciate all the input from everyone. A good friend of mine is a former Navy EOD, has his FFL, and gives pretty good discounts to LEOs and prior military. I ended up going with a DD MK18. Money wasn’t an issue and at the price I got it at it was worth it. After talking to him, firearms instructors from my department, and based on the scenarios that are likely to occur in my city (hint: lots of hotels and casinos); the MK18 is very practical.

            Comment


            • #22
              DD Mk18 is a seriously solid rifle. You made a great choice.
              "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
              -John Adams


              Disclaimer: My statements are personal opinions, and in no way reflect those of my agency.

              Comment


              • #23
                Originally posted by CO Blue_Knight View Post
                Palmetto State Armory makes good equipment at a good price. My patrol rifle is by them. I only added the optic, light and flip up rear sight.
                I would go with a Palmetto State AR. Its extremely well priced and it's made using only the best of parts. Their barrels are made by FN who makes a excellent mil spec barrel. They dont cut any corners and use only top tier parts and their prices are pretty much the lowest around

                Comment


                • #24
                  And along came the Geissele Super Duty LE...
                  If by chance an honest man like yourself should make enemies, then they would become my enemies.

                  Comment


                  • #25
                    Originally posted by CorpsTac View Post

                    I would go with a Palmetto State AR. Its extremely well priced and it's made using only the best of parts. Their barrels are made by FN who makes a excellent mil spec barrel. They dont cut any corners and use only top tier parts and their prices are pretty much the lowest around
                    PSA rifles are not top tier. PSA components are factory seconds. They cut costs by using the components that other companies reject. This isn’t contentious either, because PSA has acknowledged where their parts chain sources from. “Best of parts” is hardly the description I would use for low grade flawed/blemished components being sold at a discount. Some of their models are being equipped with MIM components too, which have poor durability.

                    There’s a reason why they can afford to have blow-out sales of $29 for a receiver on Black Friday, why they currently have a V-Day sale for $49 receivers, and a complete lower costs only $129. If any of the top tier companies (BCM, DD, FN, HK, SOLGW, Hodge, etc) sold their components for that, they’d be selling at a significant loss that would put them out of business.

                    Not all of their barrels are made by FN either.
                    Last edited by Reedo; 03-31-2019, 02:35 PM.
                    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
                    -John Adams


                    Disclaimer: My statements are personal opinions, and in no way reflect those of my agency.

                    Comment


                    • #26
                      What Rooster Cogburn carried in True Grit.

                      Comment


                      • #27
                        I have a simple Colt with a red dot. Nothing fancy. Make sure your just as accurate with iron sights as you are with a modified sight. My department alot of guys can't shoot for squat using iron sights. Come qualification day some of them regret not practicing with their irons when they have to use them.

                        Comment

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