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  • Optics on duty pistol

    My agency is currently kicking around the idea of putting optics on our duty pistols. Is there anyone who has already done that with their agency or know of any agencies that have done that? My Chief is looking for some success stories before making the leap.

    Thanks!
    “Fear not the night.

    Fear that which walks the night.

    And I am that which walks the night.

    But only evil need fear me…

    and gentle souls sleep safe in their beds…

    because I walk the night.”

  • #2
    Why would you do this? Has anyone in your agency been in a pistol fight?

    Im not dogging the idea, I just don't see a reason to. I'd like to hear the pros.

    Comment


    • #3
      Optics or night sights???? 2 different tools. Not to mention having to find a duty holster that would work then finding a holster for a light and optic combo
      I was told by one of our range staff most gun battles can be indexed shooting. Basically trigger finger along slide or frame and point.

      if you have time to line up an optic for distance shooting should have deployed a rifle or shot gun.
      I'd rather be judged by 12 rather carried by 6.

      It should be noted that any and all post that are made are based on my own thought and opinions. And are not related or implied to represent the department I work for.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by cbump View Post
        Why would you do this? Has anyone in your agency been in a pistol fight?

        Im not dogging the idea, I just don't see a reason to. I'd like to hear the pros.
        Have you shot one? I'm guessing not, or you wouldn't have asked the question
        In Valor there is hope

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by moparfan View Post
          Optics or night sights???? 2 different tools. Not to mention having to find a duty holster that would work then finding a holster for a light and optic combo
          I was told by one of our range staff most gun battles can be indexed shooting. Basically trigger finger along slide or frame and point.

          if you have time to line up an optic for distance shooting should have deployed a rifle or shot gun.
          Safariland makes ALS holsters for glocks with RMR/WML, soon to release options for M&P and Sig 320. night sights aren't needed if you use a wml or carry another white light source (which you should).
          In Valor there is hope

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by FutureCop1 View Post
            My agency is currently kicking around the idea of putting optics on our duty pistols. Is there anyone who has already done that with their agency or know of any agencies that have done that? My Chief is looking for some success stories before making the leap.

            Thanks!
            There are quite a few, check out primaryandsecondary.com or their facebook group. Great group of guys/trainers that focus on LE/MIL applications. The biggest issues I came across were durability and fog when going from cold/hot. The fog issue is less of a problem as you can still get decent hits by framing your target in the optic window.

            The durability is usually related to the battery and the contacts. After getting hammered for a while on a pistol slide they have to be sent in for service. The problem is you don't know when this will happen.

            The RM06 is what I had on my Sig and it's a great optic, allows you to manually or auto adjust brightness and there are a variety of holster options available.

            Here's a good thread:
            https://primaryandsecondary.com/foru...on-pistols.68/

            On issues:
            https://primaryandsecondary.com/foru...rosspost.2543/
            Last edited by SCSU74; 05-10-2017, 10:32 AM.
            In Valor there is hope

            Comment


            • #7
              I am a big fan of KISS. I don't like lasers or optics on duty weapons. Too much to go wrong. Too much of a crutch. I have seen too many people at the range shooting like krap with a laser sight. I understand that there is a training component to this but, then if the laser or optic doesn't work will they go back to the iron sights without any issues?!?

              Having said that, I think there is a place for them on long guns. There is something more deliberate about a long gun. I think that it has been proven over the years that they work on the long gun, just don't think that it works on pistols for duty.
              Stupid has no color or race, everyone can participate.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SCSU74 View Post

                Have you shot one? I'm guessing not, or you wouldn't have asked the question
                In all of your replies you gave us zero pros to having an optic on a duty pistol. Durability issues: con, fog: con, manual adjust brightness: who gives AF as there's no time for that in a pistol fight anyway.

                Seems like a good range tool but not practical when a real close quarters gun fight is instinct shooting anyway.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by cbump View Post

                  In all of your replies you gave us
                  Maybe if you READ the material he linked to at P&S you could educate yourself.

                  Also, not all gun fights take place at bad breath distance.
                  All Gave Some - Some Gave All

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by cbump View Post

                    In all of your replies you gave us zero pros to having an optic on a duty pistol. Durability issues: con, fog: con, manual adjust brightness: who gives AF as there's no time for that in a pistol fight anyway.

                    Seems like a good range tool but not practical when a real close quarters gun fight is instinct shooting anyway.
                    So no then? I have neither the time nor the crayons to explain the merits of RDS on pistols to you. I was answering the OP's question, could care less about your ramblings.
                    In Valor there is hope

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by IAM Rand View Post
                      I am a big fan of KISS. I don't like lasers or optics on duty weapons. Too much to go wrong. Too much of a crutch. I have seen too many people at the range shooting like krap with a laser sight. I understand that there is a training component to this but, then if the laser or optic doesn't work will they go back to the iron sights without any issues?!?

                      Having said that, I think there is a place for them on long guns. There is something more deliberate about a long gun. I think that it has been proven over the years that they work on the long gun, just don't think that it works on pistols for duty.
                      Everything has its place, do I like a laser on my snub? Absolutely, do I like it on my P226? No. There are few downsides and huge upsides to a red dot on a pistol. I used suppressor height BUIS in addition so if the dot was washed out or not working I still had my regular sights. Would I use a pistol with only a RDS? No, and I wouldn't on my rifle either.
                      In Valor there is hope

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SCSU74 View Post

                        So no then? I have neither the time nor the crayons to explain the merits of RDS on pistols to you. I was answering the OP's question, could care less about your ramblings.
                        Yeah and I was also talking to the OP in my first post. Yet, you felt the need to start off being a smartass.

                        Funny, you didn't answer the OPs questions anyway as he asked about success stories from agencies who have switched to optics on pistols. How many agencies do you know that have done this?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I put orange colored dots on my Beretta to replace the white ones
                          Former Police Officer (Injured LOD)
                          USAF VETERAN 2004-2012
                          "The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day."-LTC Grossman
                          Emergency Services Dispatcher, APG MD

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by cbump View Post

                            Yeah and I was also talking to the OP in my first post. Yet, you felt the need to start off being a smartass.

                            Funny, you didn't answer the OPs questions anyway as he asked about success stories from agencies who have switched to optics on pistols. How many agencies do you know that have done this?
                            Gave him a direct link to a group of officers that have switched..
                            In Valor there is hope

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I carry a Glock 17 MOS with RMR Type 2 on duty. If you set up your gun correctly, you have no issues with durability, reliability, no fogging, and high levels of capability that exceed iron sight performance. The problem is you can’t buy sub-par electronics to save a buck, because Lord knows cops are a bunch of cheapskates. The Trijicon RMR and the Leupold DeltaPoint Pro are the only two optics that have been tested and proven to be reliable, and the RMR is dramatically more reliable and durable. I have yet to have fogging on my RMR, but if it does happen, I’ll throw some CatCrap anti-fog on the lens. That stuff is amazing and will solve that problem.

                              The biggest issue with running an RDS is that people expect to be able to just pick one up and run it like a pro without putting in the time. If you have spent “x” number of years on irons and suddenly pick up an RDS, of course RDS is slower. That’s your fault as the shooter, and not the equipment. When you develop that proficiency with the pistol and optic, you get a lot faster. I am now faster on the draw and fire with the RDS than with irons.

                              If anyone has questions about RDS, go read the Sage Dynamics technical document here:
                              http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/7dc128...fa603fce6f.pdf

                              Before you ever criticize or demonize RDS, you need to learn the facts and the intricacies. Put in the time and effort to learn the gun and optic. I can all but guarantee that pistol RDS systems will be the norm in LE duty carry within the next 10 years.
                              "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
                              -John Adams


                              Disclaimer: My statements are personal opinions, and in no way reflect those of my agency.

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