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Life Expectancy of a Duty Weapon?

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  • Life Expectancy of a Duty Weapon?

    I was just wondering how long other departments kept their duty weapons? We have Beretta 96's that are going on 14 years old. I am trying to make my case to the brass that it would be cost effective to allow officers to carry whatever we wanted, or someone could choose to still carry the Beretta. This would be providing that the weapon was a of a quality make, and the officer would have to buy the holster, mag holders, and provide the weapon. I personally would rather pay for a weapon I like, that I know is going to work, versus some old worn out piece of poo that wasn't worth poo in the first place.

  • #2
    14 years...way too long. Most of the departments I am familiar with get new handguns every 5-8 years. The Remington 870 is just getting broke in at 14 years and I have recommended that we get new AR15's every 6 years.
    Trooperden, akman75, & azmichelle ignored

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    • #3
      It really depends, the 1911a1's in the military were used for about 80 years so life expectancy is relative to what weapon you are shooting. An M9, probably should be changed out, but my HK has over 100k rounds through it and all I've ever done to it is change the springs and it shoots groups as tight as the day I bought it.

      As far as allowing everyone to pick their own gun w/i reason, that is a whole other matter. You can make an easy argument for this in that people are better shots w/ different weapons and the fact that even the military has alternate guns for people with hands too small to shoot the M9. Besides, how often in the history of policing has magazine interchanability been a factor vs. how often has the wrong gun for someone caused them to miss their target.
      "Respect for religion must be reestablished. Public debt should be reduced. The arrogance of public officials must be curtailed. Assistance to foreign lands must be stopped or we shall bankrupt ourselves. The people should be forced to work and not depend on government for subsistence." - Cicero, 60 B.C.

      For California police academy notes go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CABasicPolice/

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      • #4
        Another factor is how well the guns are maintained (cleaned, springs changed, looked over by a trained armorer, etc) and how often they're shot.

        If you've got an officer who likes to train, or is into competitive shooting with his/her duty rig, you can have a firearm with an incredible ammount of mileage on it.

        Having officers purchase their own weapons - within department guidlines (important!) - can prove to be a good thing. This gives your officers a selection from which to choose what they'll be comfortable with, and places the duties of maintaining/replacing the duty weapon on said officer.

        However, with that there needs to be department guidelines stating what makes, models, and calibers are authorized - otherwise you'll have folks showing up with everything from uber-custom 1911's to Hi-points and .50 cal Desert Eagles to .22 Derringers.

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        • #5
          I wote a model policy along those lines, which my agency adopted. It made the bean counters happy, as it saved a lot of money on guns, leather, etc.
          As to service life, we seemed to change about every 10 years. As a VERY active shooter, I did wear out an issued 9mm, so they gave me another!
          "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
          John Stuart Mill

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          • #6
            Our dept. retires our weapons every 5 years, no matter what has happened with them. Sig lets us "buyback" our weapon and that is one part I love, just buy the gun from one of the oldtimers that only fire their weapon on qual day and you have a pretty cheap backup.

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            • #7
              5 yrs max.
              14 yrs they are way too old to be carried. Trade them in a few at a time.

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              • #8
                Hey Bodie how was Dave Spaulding as a cop?, I assume you worked with him at some point or another. He writes some good articles on firearms and firearms training. Just wanted your take on him.
                Trooperden, akman75, & azmichelle ignored

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                • #9
                  It should also depend how often the department qualifies, St louis Metro is carrying the 92, and they qualified every three months, then they noticed the weapons were wearing out, in a classic boss think, they decided that they were going to the range too often, so they reduced to bi-annual qualifications, which is the state minimum, and made a strong suggestion that officers should only use their weapons at department sanctioned events.....

                  I have always had a problem with the everybody carries the same thing concept, as the only way you are going to get my spare ammo is if I am dead, I mean if you are such a poor shot you blew all your ammo, I am not going to give you mine to blow. If I am dead and you run out of ammo, you can have my gun.
                  Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

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                  • #10
                    We replace our handguns every 10 years, by contract.
                    Talk sense to a fool, and he will call you foolish - Euripides

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                    • #11
                      I really appreciate all the info, it has been a tremendous help just to get an idea of what other departments are doing. This forum is a nice chance to see what others are doing and what works for their department. We are supposed to shoot four times a year, but that is a whole different story. I personally like to take all my guns out and shoot them as much as I can. With that being said, it gets pricey pumping a lot of .45 through the USP. I hate shooting my duty Beretta, but proficiency is the most important thing.

                      As far as maintenance goes, it seems that almost everyone has had some sort of problem with their Beretta in the past few years. I would like to attribute that to the age of the weapons. I clean mine regularly, because I just can't stand a dirty duty weapon. I'm not the only officer who feels that we are being scammed by the bean counters. It seems that everyone is fed up with our old junk and want to get rid of it quickly. Finances are the city's largest problem right now, and the idea of us purchasing our own weapons is a viable option. That of course is providing that the city wakes up and sees that we are trying to do both of us a favor.

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                      • #12
                        Spaulding was a good guy. Straight as you would want in an officer.
                        Didn't see much of him over the years though.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by USP45FAN
                          I really appreciate all the info, it has been a tremendous help just to get an idea of what other departments are doing. This forum is a nice chance to see what others are doing and what works for their department. We are supposed to shoot four times a year, but that is a whole different story. I personally like to take all my guns out and shoot them as much as I can. With that being said, it gets pricey pumping a lot of .45 through the USP. I hate shooting my duty Beretta, but proficiency is the most important thing.

                          As far as maintenance goes, it seems that almost everyone has had some sort of problem with their Beretta in the past few years. I would like to attribute that to the age of the weapons. I clean mine regularly, because I just can't stand a dirty duty weapon. I'm not the only officer who feels that we are being scammed by the bean counters. It seems that everyone is fed up with our old junk and want to get rid of it quickly. Finances are the city's largest problem right now, and the idea of us purchasing our own weapons is a viable option. That of course is providing that the city wakes up and sees that we are trying to do both of us a favor.

                          Not that I am a fan of Glock but I would imagine Vance's would get you new Glocks for about $120-$200 a weapon with your traded Berettas. $150 for a new Glock is a good price, ask for Doug Vance or Shawn Herman
                          Trooperden, akman75, & azmichelle ignored

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                          • #14
                            I am going to have to make the trip to C-bus to check out Vance's. Of course that will have to wait until I get home from the sandbox. I live closer to Fin, Feather, and Fur and The Sportsmans Den, both are really good places, but they don't deal with departments to my knowledge. Thanks for all the info.

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                            • #15
                              1. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY!
                              2. Go to any of the stores you named, and ask if they have an LE program. Sometimes, they run them out of 'the back room' so the public does not hear/see the prices.
                              "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
                              John Stuart Mill

                              Comment

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